Neutral White vs. nichia219

Currently I have an XML t6 3c and I really like the tint. I’m wondering if the nichia219 is really that much better with color rendition (is it easily noticeable)?

I’m considering building a neutral nichia219 but if it isn’t that much of a difference from an XML neutral then I’d rather keep the greater lumen output of the XML.

If anyone owns both can you do some beamshots outdoors?

Like night and day.

Yes, it is indeed… About the same difference as between NW and CW - in my subjective view.

This thread makes a good comparison between the two:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?354430

Like Ouchyfoot had said, it’s night and day.

Too bad I prefer CW over NW. :wink:

T6 3C is like washed out colors, if you have good eyes you should notice that the objects are poorly colored, missing red and green mostly.

I have one Nichia incoming but it did not arrive yet. Soon soon!

So I plan to make a torch or a lamp light with the Nichia.

Only problem is that I can’t decide how much power should I feed it at max, 1.4A or 1.75A.

If only they made XM-L2 in 4D…
Or XP-G2. These would come much closer to Nichia.
The problem is, they are hard to make and even if there are any 4D they are expensive and unavailable.

pfjew! Been there. That was quite a long thread, and with lots of debating that was often pointless or beside the point, and lots of pictures that just did not exactly show the right thing. Took half an hour of my life! It ends CPF-wise with Norm closing the thread for unclear reason (the thread was going nowhere in the end, but please let the posters decide to stop posting and let the reader decide to stop reading).

About the N219 vs good Cree neutrals: The Cree neutrals do not put out a lot of the deep red, the Nichia219 has more of that (at the expense of efficiency, it is -lumenwise- dear to make a deep red). We need it to see the browns and reds in a natural way. Especially outside (leaves, trees, wood, flowers etc.) that makes the N219 very pleasing to the eye. There are Cree neutrals with comparable tints as the N219 that are very pleasant too (or even more pleasant), but just not as natural looking as the N219. The above mentioned thread goes deep into tint-preferences (you may actually like the absence of deep red in the colour spectrum and therefore dislike the N219) but does not emphasize enough that apart from individual tint preferences the Nichia just renders colours better, which is clearly calculated in the CRI-number. (some may argue that CRI is a clumsy and outdated way to represent colour rendition, but in my experience with high CRI leds it does its job of representing the quality of colour rendition sufficiently well, high CRI indeed gives better colour representation)

1.4A is just about the maximum sensible current for the 219, above that: better handwarmer, probably above the amp-rating of your clicky, and still you won't see much difference at 1.75A (see this chart at CPF).

I like both - the 219 is just like shining a wand of daylight around, whereas a 3C Cree is a little cooler and washed out, but brighter at the same current. I find that the 219 looks better in and around the house, whereas the XM-L 3C lights I have do just fine in the woods and on the road, where I need the extra output more than I need the more precise colour rendering. The 3C lights still provide good contrast in the woods, say between leaves and roots (a very important distinction on a mtb :laughing:, and are waaaaaay nicer to use as a result than the CW (1A/C/D) lights I have. So much so that I’ll be making new housings just to put NW lights on my bars and helmet (the 219 just wouldn’t be able to put out enough light at the runtime vs. weight that I need).

So, I think it just depends on what you’ll be using it for, how much light you need and how much colour accuracy you want. Both are good choices, just with their own advantages and disadvantages (you’d never get that comment allowed on CPF!).

Seen it many times, never understood why they can’t plot it.
So here you go guys:

that's nice, thanks!

Looks like I will definately be building the nichia219 drop in after all. I already have the emitter, time to just reflow.

I’m thinking to get the max lumens out of this I may piggyback another 7135 onto a 1.4 amp driver, reflow the led to a 16mm sinkpad once we get those sorted out and get an AR coated lens. I’ll also heatsink the pill with some copper/solder on the driver side. Probably use an OP reflector as I’d use it as a more daily task light.

I have some OP reflectors from fasttech and IS, does anyone know if they are for XML or XPG? Or will the nichia work with both? I don’t want a ringy beam.

EDIT: Also, now you guys make me want another XML. Since the 3C is on the cooler end of the NW, it seems the 4C or 4D would be a good choice for the 4500kish range. Does anyone have a good source of those for the XML-2 (Are they even out?). I was planning on getting the XML-2 T6 3C to replace my XML t63c but now want to try out other tints.

When I built my first 219 light I literally said, “WOW!” when I first turned it on at night. Cool white LEDs make blues pop, and, that’s about it. Everything else is a washed out mess. With the 219 every color shows up. You literally see what you’ve been missing.

I have lights that I use up close and personal and I have lights that I use outdoors at longer distances. For the former I want 219s and for the latter I want XM-L2s or XP-G2s as brightness trumps color rendition at distance (yeah, I know what you’re thinking, with the 219 you see more because the color shows better, but, if the light can’t put enough lux onto your target you aren’t going to see a thing and that’s where raw lumens from a hard driven XP-G2 or XM-L2 comes into play).

Depending on the emitter, red, orange, and yellow, and even green appear strangely muted with cool whites and the cooler neutral whites (like 3C). Love how the 219 doesn’t so grossly favor colors. I really want a work light with this emitter.

Important to remember that the numbers graphed above were according to the original CPF thread

The drop off in lumens/watt in the graph thus ignores the thermal droop in output. It’s already a pretty small increase going from 1.4 to 1.7 and the drop in won’t have a great thermal path to suck the heat away. You might have a hard time telling the difference between a 1.4A and 1.7A module aside from battery life.

Good point, I’ll stick to 1.4amps.

Really starting to lean towards a triple nichia219 build now.

That sounds like an interesting idea, where would one source all the required components for that?

I’m not entirely sure myself but I’d probably be doing a budget build so I’d find some copper as a base build. I think a few people on the forum has have used copper tubes etc. to make some XPG triples.

From researching around, I’m thinking if I run it on a nanj 2.8amp driver that would be .93amp per led which should be 500+ lumens OTF. I’d probably piggyback at least one more 7135.

Illumination Supply has them.

Would be nice if someone like FastTech would get them in stock!

Illuminationsupplies is in the US… not really useful for international buyers.

The other route is going with an TaoBao agent, and buy through them.
You can get them for about 2bucks a led (without star). But you better buy a bigger quantity, to reduce all extra cost, like shipping, agent fees, etc.

Yes, ironically Illumination Supply was just discussing the pitfalls of trying to ship items out of the USA in another thread a few days ago. The new USPS international shipping rates really has them at a disadvantage.