New Paypal Notice of Policy Updates

fran82 · 2019-02-20T07:20:12.000Z

New policy?

Here in Spain no changes as far as I Know.

DavidEF · 2019-02-21T03:57:03.000Z

Johm:

DavidEF:

Hopefully, somebody will create a competing service for those of us who value our privacy and security.

Satoshi has already done so.

My last 3 orders from fasttech have been paid with cryptocurrency.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. How is cryptocurrency a direct competitor to PayPal’s payment processing service? BTC is currency, not a service.

Also, you do know that the whole “they can’t control it or take it away from you” claim of crypto is bunk, since “they” control your ability to connect to the internet, right? When “internet” becomes an ad-hoc network that anyone can join anonymously for only the price of hardware, I’ll believe cryptocurrency is any better than “regular” currency as far as privacy and/or security go. Don’t get me wrong, I like the decentralized currency standard better than government backed fiat. But I see no privacy or security benefit as long as my connection to the internet itself is at someone else’s command.

Johm · 2019-02-21T05:39:11.000Z

DavidEF:

I don’t understand what you’re saying. How is cryptocurrency a direct competitor to PayPal’s payment processing service? BTC is currency, not a service.

BTC was just currency years ago, there is software (and hardware) to send and receive payments. (wallets, merchant accounts etc)
Doesn’t this make cruptocurrency a service as well?

DavidEF:

Also, you do know that the whole “they can’t control it or take it away from you” claim of crypto is bunk, since “they” control your ability to connect to the internet, right? When “internet” becomes an ad-hoc network that anyone can join anonymously for only the price of hardware, I’ll believe cryptocurrency is any better than “regular” currency as far as privacy and/or security go.

‘Controlling’ your internet does not mean controlling your cryptocurrency in any way.
If someone is limiting your ability to connect to the internet, then you already have a problem.
Besides, if need be, you can make a cryprocurrency payment with paper.

DavidEF:

Don’t get me wrong, I like the decentralized currency standard better than government backed fiat. But I see no privacy or security benefit as long as my connection to the internet itself is at someone else’s command.

Internet control is ‘regional’ and only the tiniest of internet access is enough.
But if you don’t have internet what would you need internet money for? (or paypal for that matter)

klrman · 2019-02-21T06:30:10.000Z

toddcshoe:

klrman:

If pp tries that with me I'll just cancel my account with them. Will curb the flash light spending too which is always a good thing! BTW, never got any notice from paypal, maybe it's just for US customers.

I got a notice about changes in the terms of service, or something like that. I read it, kinda. Don’t remember seeing anything about SSN. I’ve verified my info about as much as I’m going to. If they want more then I will just pass. It’s not that important to me honestly.

Paypal is banking on the myth that people can't live without it but it's not going to work for people like you and me. I'll use it as long as it is good for me, then astalavista.

Johm · 2019-02-21T06:55:43.000Z

toddcshoe · 2019-02-21T07:47:52.000Z

klrman:

toddcshoe:

klrman:

If pp tries that with me I’ll just cancel my account with them. Will curb the flash light spending too which is always a good thing! BTW, never got any notice from paypal, maybe it’s just for US customers.

I got a notice about changes in the terms of service, or something like that. I read it, kinda. Don’t remember seeing anything about SSN. I’ve verified my info about as much as I’m going to. If they want more then I will just pass. It’s not that important to me honestly.

Paypal is banking on the myth that people can’t live without it but it’s not going to work for people like you and me. I’ll use it as long as it is good for me, then astalavista.

I use PayPal just as a convenience. It’s not super important for me to use it. I can easily use my debit card for just about any purchase if need be. If giving PayPal all the personal information they want to verify my identity without providing me with some kind of information as to how they plan on keeping my information secure, then they can live without my business.

My bank allows me to turn on and off my debit cards at will. I keep them all off until I actually use them. That feature and some anti fraud protections and credit monitoring keep me relatively secure. Nothing is foolproof of course but, I do what I can and I can certainly live without PayPal.

Seems to me that if PayPal plans on keeping all of the personal information in one place, then it makes it a one stop shop for thieves looking for it. Is PayPal going to go to bat for me as soon as my information is compromised? Of course not. They will send me a letter stating that it was compromised and to contact my bank. I’ll most likely get a letter from my bank long before I get one from PayPal.

I am ultimately responsible for my own safety/security. Dependency leads to complacency.

TheIntruder · 2019-02-21T19:20:23.000Z

fran82:

New policy?

Here in Spain no changes as far as I Know.

That’s because these conditions are prompted by U.S. consumer protection regulations governing banking activity, which is which PayPal provides by holding peoples’ money and issuing payments.

It was clearly stated in the notice.

The 9/11 terrorist attack resulted in a new wave of U.S. legislation that sought to counteract criminal activity from the financial side as well, involving foreign financial ties, money laundering, etc. Simply opening a bank account was no longer so simple; the U.S. government wanted to know opens accounts, verify their identity, and requires financial institutions to monitor and report activity that may be suspicious. It’s a duty of both the institutions and individuals working for them (including annual training).

The same analogue took place with air travel—proof of ID, tracking, and background databases/no fly lists.

While there is much data collection these big internet companies do by their own choice, there is also some that is compulsory. As an EU resident, I’m sure you’re aware of the reach that government can have.

teacher · 2019-02-21T19:29:36.000Z

Is the ‘copy & paste’ below what ya’ll are referring to??

As a result of a new regulation issued by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in Washington, D.C. coming into effect on April 1, 2019, we are making some changes that will affect consumers who want to hold and use balance with PayPal.

Beginning March 29, 2019, if you want to hold and use balance, in addition to verifying your identity with PayPal, you will need a balance account which will be linked to your current PayPal account. Detailed information about balance accounts (known as PayPal Cash and PayPal Cash Plus) can be found in the PayPal Cash and PayPal Cash Plus Terms and Conditions. There are no changes to any PayPal fees.
_

Does this apply to people who only want to make payments using Credit Card or bank account through PayPay?? Keeping no balance in their PayPal account.

USA · 2019-02-21T20:00:21.000Z

I have a US PP and have NOT received this email. But the content seems reasonable and is in fact a very positive change to protect consumer assets.
For the pp users who want to keep a balance they have to create an actual “balance account” and for this they need to do the basic AML/KYC procedures.

edit:
Just read up on a few things and my account probably doesn’t fall under that category. Apparently they were going into more banking services as of last year:
https://9to5mac.com/2018/04/09/paypal-banking-services/

teacher · 2019-02-21T20:14:57.000Z

So does it mean that if you DO NOT want to keep a balance in your account you have to do nothing??

It does NOT apply to people who keep no balance in their account???

USA · 2019-02-21T20:17:34.000Z

Based on what you have quoted, that is how I understand it. Again, I have a US account and I have no balance. I have NOT received said email and I was NOT asked to provide any details or IDs.

teacher · 2019-02-21T20:20:51.000Z

Thanks USA. That’s how I read it too, but did not know if I was reading it correctly.

USA · 2019-02-21T20:26:45.000Z

The only reason I actually have a US based PP account is to very rarely buy something on ebay via my external credit card. It adds another layer of protection of a chargeback without the fees (some CCs ask for chargeback fees).

But since buying on ebay has been more trouble than ever, a US PP account isn’t something I would actually need. I don’t sell anything on ebay or elsewhere, my friends and I don’t pool money for gifts or parties and when people owe me money (super rare incidence), they just give me cash.

The only good use case would be transferring money from one country to another (under my own name), but the fees are horrendous.

pennzy · 2019-02-21T20:28:16.000Z

The last time I had a balance they made me send proof of my address to them before I could use it.This is after years of holding this account.

TheIntruder · 2019-02-22T01:32:23.000Z

teacher:

So does it mean that if you DO NOT want to keep a balance in your account you have to do nothing??

It does NOT apply to people who keep no balance in their account???

No, it does not.

I’m circumspect in what information I provide online (no social media, no setting up online accounts without darned good reason, or to make someone else’s life easier) as well.

I’ve had a PP account since 2001, since it was the easiest way to buy on eBay, and even then, some didn’t consider it a good idea to link a bank account to PP.

The only information PP has is a verified address (a condition of some sellers), phone number, and a credit card. That has in no way hampered the ability to use PP to make purchases, and even returns have been credited back to the card. No carrying balances, or other banking-type services.

Bottom line — PP works perfectly fine if one uses it as a payment facilitator and manages it in that fashion. Any more than that, and don’t be surprised if they demand more information, whether compelled to or not.

tatasal · 2019-02-22T02:15:19.000Z

I never click any notification from PP sent to my email (though I received a PP email, but not sure if its legit) or Yahoo account email notices, as I am aware scammers can easily pose as official reps from these companies…

Anyway, I just went to PP website and opened my account and there was no announcement of Policy Updates, just my usual PP homepage.

teacher · 2019-02-22T03:59:06.000Z

TheIntruder:

teacher:

It does NOT apply to people who keep no balance in their account???

No, it does not.

Bottom line — PP works perfectly fine if one uses it as a payment facilitator and manages it in that fashion. Any more than that, and don’t be surprised if they demand more information, whether compelled to or not.

Thank you TheIntruder for the clear cut answer. :+1:

tatasal:

I never click any notification from PP sent to my email (though I received a PP email, but not sure if its legit) …… …….

I do the same thing tatasal, I rarely even look at an email from PayPal unless it concerns a payment I sent.
The ones with CreditCard offers, account updates, or various other ‘stuff’ just get ignored.
I had to search for this ’update’ people have been ‘talking’ about.

Couchmaster · 2019-02-22T05:08:15.000Z

I suspect it’s an attempt by the US Government to reign in underground economy things. It will hit you if say, you sell $1000 worth of things in a year via Paypal as they will now report it to the Government and you will have to either pay taxes on it or show what your cost basis was.

USA · 2019-02-22T07:33:28.000Z

I think they are also trying to catch up with the number of anonymous accounts discussed on other forums or people who simply don’t want to share any personal information. Another reason why places like entropay have to shut down, too many people abusing the system. From a consumer protection point of view and to protect law-abiding citizens, this is the right step. For fake accounts who sell stuff without paying taxes under false identities or similar scenarios, this is bad.

Either way, users without a balance should be good to go.

I found more information here:

Doctor Of Credit – 17 Feb 19

Paypal Accounts will now have a Separate 'Cash Account' to Send and Withdraw...

Beginning March 29, Paypal is changing the structure of their accounts so that there is a 'Cash Account' for holding, sending, and receiving funds which

Est. reading time: 2 minutes

tatasal · 2019-02-22T10:04:13.000Z

On the other hand, I have some funds on PP that came from refunded items from vendors.

The amount shows on the upper left of the PP’s page as PP balance, and lower down, below the amount, says ‘withdraw funds’.

I thought refunded funds will go straight back to credit card registered, but it’s not.

Is it possible to have it reverted back to my bank account ?

I never tried the “withdraw funds” option though, for I don’t know what will happen to the PP balance funds (funds that where refunded by the vendors)