That thread is very informative man, thanx. I’ll have to check out those sites mentioned in #11. I’m an Amazon fanatic myself but definitely willing to check out other sources, especially if they’re cheaper.
[quote=Aspire7]
You’re getting tons of good advice here but I wanted to chime in as another “Amazon fanatic.” I’ve been a Prime subscriber for years and order from Amazon at least twice a week or so. When I first got into good flashlights a while back Amazon got my first order, because that’s pretty much where I buy everything. But after hanging out in flashlight communities for a short while I quickly learned that that’s not the best place to buy flashlight stuff. Its basically sacrilege around here but I’m not a fan of the Chinese sites either, mostly because I have the patience of a small child. Yes you can get much cheaper prices there, but shipping takes ages, so I only order there if I can’t get the item from a US vendor. That’s just a personal choice though, I know others would much rather save the money and there’s nothing wrong with that.
So for me, its illumn.com, mtnelectronics, sometimes goinggear for my lights (unless its a custom or direct-sale deal). Those guys are active participants in our communities and usually give good discounts to other community members. If they don’t have it, then I’ll go with Amazon, or a trustworthy Chinese site as a last-ditch measure.
I do have one hard-n-fast rule though, and again there will be others here who disagree with me — I only buy batteries from illumn or mtnelectronics. The 50 cents I may save on Amazon or Banggood just isn’t worth the risk of counterfeits and there are plenty of counterfeit li-ion batteries floating around out there. Those two sites have everything I need in batteries and have proven that they work to make sure they’re selling legit cells.
But again, this is all my opinion and experience so far in this fun hobby.
[quote=emarkd]
Thanx man, very much appreciated. I got my first light from Amazon as well, and now one of the participants in a GB for the Sniper. All the advise is needed as I’m now going to check the above sites for batteries and a charger. Also do you or anyone else know anything about green lasers?
I was looking to get this, but unsure of its legitimacy regarding the actual trail or path of the beam. As in, is it actually visible the entire distance of the tip, like a light saber?
http://bigfootlasers.com/products/series-6-neon-green-laser-pointer?variant=9372815875
Battery & charger are no good, don't ask me about the laser though.
-Garry
Unless it’s foggy or dusty you probably won’t see the path of the beam.
That Maxtoch looks like it has some serious throw!
In case you do not know, you will need to create an account on the web site that is selling the flashlight in your group buy. I would do that ASAP. If you are not sure who the vendor is, ask a question in the thread for the group buy.
In addition, the best way to pay—by far—is through PayPal. The dispute process with PayPal is usually fair. If something goes wrong with an order from a vendor in China, you will have a chance to get it fixed. If you need a PayPal account, you should also set it up ASAP.
Cheap flashlights can be fun. Not so with cheap Li-ion batteries and chargers. It is my opinion that batteries and chargers that have names ending in xxxx-Fire are to be shunned.
I second the recommendations of Illumn and Mountain Electronics. Those are good places to buy all things flashlight.
Thanx dud and keeping. I figured that was the case with the laser, but wanted to make sure. Sometimes those photos can be very convincing. Glad I checked with you guys first.
Keeping, great info man. I’ll ask who the vendor is now as I had no idea this was needed information. Thank.
Another thing I learned before buying was that multi cell li ion lights need some proper care and attention. I can’t find the story but a guy put un equally charged cells in his 3x18650 light and turned it into a pipe bomb. I bought a charger with a digital readout for this reason. Nitecore d4. And I already had a couple cheap volt meters laying around. There are probably better chargers but for 22$ I really like this one. My next one will hopefully be able to discharge and give an amp hour reading.
Edit: found it!
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?280909-Ultrafire-18650-3000mA-exploded
Even though I’m an electrician I still have yet to get a multiple cell light as I’m not always real alert/aware to trust myself I lose concentration pretty often. (Maybe I’ve been shocked too many times lol 
) But I have to be honest with myself and with a family around when I’m doing my hobby I have to know my limits. I was taught not to fear electricity but to respect it and it’s dangers. Be safe.
Dangers of handling lithium ion cells don't go away with experience or good equipment either. You have to always be on the alert & careful what you're doing. Just yesterday I placed (2) 18650's into a bike light battery case and mistakenly placed 1 upside down (wrong polarity). Fortunately they were protected cells and I had it connected to a voltage/Ammeter and caught the display showing an odd value before I connected the lighthead.
And not too long ago I put an 18650 into a Nitecore i4 charger backwards. I saw the display flashing the charge indicators and realized my mistake (thank goodness that charger has wrong polarity detection).
-Garry
Glad I’m not the only one! I’m pretty sure I’ve done it in my charger and and my blf a6 light. Luckily both are protected from this!
Dangers? Never knew flashlights could be dangerous aside from temporary blindness. Someone told me to get protected batteries and Ive kept that in mind, but don’t know what protected and unprotected means really. There really is quite a bit for me to learn, and all I wanted was a light saber lol
I’m still playing with my Mh20, but haven’t had any real reason to use it as of yet. I was outside last night showing it off to my wife and sure enough there’s an event right up the road with those BIG spotlights throwing gargantuas beams into the nights sky. Needless to say, I was not amused 
See this thread:
You can also Google “Lithium Ion Battery Explosion”, might even find some good YouTube videos.
-Garry
Wow, that’s something serious. Is there anyway around this happening? Like chargers and batteries that are guaranteed not to explode by their own fault? I’m assuming since its takes about 6hrs to fully charge a depleted battery it’s best not to leave them unattended? This is all too much. How often does this happen? I just want a good flashlight not a fire starter.
Would this battery and charger be good enough not to worry about any explosions???
http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/nitecore-intellicharge-i2.html
Stay away from cheap Chinese batteries (esp. Any branded xxxxFire) and cheap chargers. Only buy what has been reviewed & recommended here and from vendors recommended here. (Illumination Supply & Mtn Electronics won't sell you anything unsafe). Protected cells have a protection circuit (pcb) usually at the negative end covered by the battery's shrink wrap. It acts like a circuit breaker to protect you. Unprotected cells rely on you being extremely careful with them. Respect them; treat them like little sticks of dynomite.
Those cells & charger are fine. They're a good starter set.
-Garry
Hey Aspire7 same new guy here 
MH20 is really nice good pick. If you are into the Nitecore brand keep an eye on its new GT series. Classic models with new XP-L HI LEDs that bring long beam shot distance. Nextorch also has some great lights within your budget.
Our member HKJ does some thorough knowledgeable and exhaustive reviews complete with documentation on chargers and cells. Until you learn more just scroll to the end where he gives his thoughts on the tested products. He’s meticulous and uses top-grade equipment for testing; you will not find better knowledge anywhere.
With good cells, good chargers, and proper care storage and use LIon cells are generally quite safe. The main issue is that when you err with any of those things can go wrong in a big way so rapidly that you may be in danger. Nothing is absolutely safe, and nothing ever will be. What you’re dealing with here is a high-performance item which is not designed or made to be abused or misused. Stay within it’s limits and you will likely not have a problem. The percentage of failures of good cells and good chargers which does cause harm is almost infinitesimal but it does exist and must be allowed for. Cheap cells and chargers can range from marginally safe to very unsafe so avoid them. As was told me when I began, “Cheap lights, but only good cells and chargers”.
You’re already using lithium cells in your phone, your tablet or laptop, and even in your heart pacemaker so this is nothing new to you really. Where the difference is here is that those items are designed to be as idiot-proof as possible while performance flashlights are not. You have to do the thinking here and your results will coincide with how well you do that. Follow the mainstream advice you find on these forums and you will never again want any other kind of flashlight and your experiences will be exciting and pleasant. Do not stray from that until you become more deeply knowledgeable your own self. The more you learn about these lights and use them, the more fascinating it all becomes. It can be quite addicting but as addictions go this is as safe as they get and only your budget is in any real danger when you’re a flashaholic.
Phil
Rechargeable Li-ion batteries are generally very safe. They are used by hundreds of millions of people every day in devices like laptop computers and cell phones. They store a lot of energy, however, so learning how to care for them is important. Rarely, and usually only after they have been abused, they can be dangerous, even to the point of venting with smoke and flames. Inside a watertight flashlight, a venting event can create pressures so large that the tail cap and head are blown off at high velocity.
The biggest issue for flashlight owners is preventing over-charge and over-discharge. In a mobile phone or laptop, there are special circuits that control this. In flashlights, more of the responsibility falls on the user.
The other big issue for flashlight owners is making sure that batteries are matched by brand, date-of-manufacture (as best as possible), charge, and capacity when they are used together in series and parallel configurations. More on this below.
Over-discharge means draining too much energy out of a battery. Most of the Li-ion batteries used in flashlights are designed to be charged to 4.2 volts. During usage, that voltage falls. Most of the energy is long gone by the time you reach 3.0 volts.
Manufacturers publish lower limits for discharge voltage for each battery they make. Typical values for Li-ion batteries range between 2.5 volts and 2.8 volts. Continuing to use a battery after it gets this low leads to over-discharge.
By itself, over-discharge is not usually dangerous. The problems come when you try to recharge a battery that has been over-discharged. Sometimes, but not always, that leads to the venting events mentioned above.
Depending how low the voltage actually goes, you can sometimes safely recharge a battery after over-discharge. This is especially true if you recharge immediately after the over-discharge occurs. I say this not to encourage you to try this, but just to emphasize that the dangers are not as omnipresent as a casual reading would lead you to believe.
Li-ion batteries are cheap. If you determine that you have over-discharged one, you should recycle it. Do not attempt to recharge it.
Over-charging can occur if the safety systems in a battery charger fail. Li-ion chargers are supposed to stop charging at 4.2 volts. If they continue charging significantly beyond that, it is possible to trigger a venting event. Some no-name and xxxx-Fire chargers have performed poorly in testing. Often, it is a failure to properly terminate charging that gets them a poor review. When you buy a charger, you should select one that has been given a good rating by a knowledgeable reviewer.
All Li-ion batteries, even "unprotected" ones, have safety features built in. One of these is a membrane called a shut-down separator. When a battery overheats, it is designed to shut-off ion transport inside a battery. This stops current flow. In order to prevent explosion, all batteries have a vent that blows open when internal pressure rises too high in a battery.
In addition to these features, "protected" batteries have a printed-circuit board that monitors voltage and current in a battery. These will shut down the battery when current becomes too high or when voltage becomes too high or too low.
When two, three, or more Li-ion batteries are used together, it is crucial that they be matched. That means they should be the same brand and model, and that they should have been purchased at the same time, preferably in the same package.
In addition, they must have the same charge. Do not use a fully charged battery together with one that is only half charged.
They must also have similar capacity. Here I am not talking about the rated capacity that is printed on the label. I am speaking about the actual capacity. That is something that declines as a battery ages. If one battery holds significantly less energy (i.e., has less capacity) than its mate, it will go into over-discharge while the other battery is still chugging along.
Where batteries are connected in series, reverse current can flow in a discharged battery, supplied by its mate that still has power. This can trigger a venting event.
With all the safety systems that are built into Li-ion batteries, you can see why the number of people who have a one actually catch on fire is so low. More than one safety system has to fail before you get into trouble. Nevertheless, failures do happen. The fire threat is real.
Unless you have a flashlight that demands unprotected batteries because it uses high current, I recommend using only protected batteries. Use only high-quality batteries and chargers. Purchase only from dealers you trust. Random sellers on Amazon and ebay do not qualify.
Hi KeepingItLight,
Very good write up and explanation mate, Well done.
Wow, very informative reads. Safety first, by all means. This is information that can go a long way. Really looking foward to learning more on these torches/dynamites.
This is the battery and charger combo I’m looking to get, and Garry said they are fine for a starter set, but would they give me peak performance for the Sniper I’m looking foward to in the GB? Correct me if I’m wrong, but to me, “starter set” implies less light output or not performing at maximum velocity. Do I need something else to get peak performance? Also, if I do get something more intermediate, would I be more likely to hurt myself? Maybe I’m jumping the gun a bit. I dunno. Just really want this Sniper to be out of this world, but at the same time I don’t want to get carried away as far as safety goes. I’ll more than likely go ahead and order the below set, as I’m sure you guys wouldn’t steer me wrong, just a bit enthused about lights at the moment
http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/nitecore-intellicharge-i2.html
Those 2 are fine! You’re good to go!