Nichia 219C, testing a 5000K 83CRI emitter, comparing with a XP-G2 S4 2B and other leds


Take care Google Image searching the above at work folks (NSFW).

“I hear nothing, I see nothing, I know nothing!”

Dale, Where does your Ti X6 sit on the “Most lumens from a single cell” list? It has to be right near the top

It is the king, the previous title holder was my X6 with SBT-70 at just over 17A. But that is a single emitter on a single cell, so it still holds a title of it’s own, different league. :wink:

The LG HE-4, freshly charged, will hit 21.3A in this one, with 4123 lumens.

Oddly enough, it’s little brother the HE-2 only allows 19.54A but has the highest lumens number at 4278. I always find it interesting how the cells act and react. Ya just never know which one will be the top dog in a given light.

A pic of my daughter’s old room, brightly painted with enough colored objects around to get a good idea how this one works…

Here’s the base shot, set as white balance before taking the above pic…

I had one 219C leftover (more coming..) and because I want them dedomed as well for a build, I went into the slicing business. Never really been there before, I'm a hot dedomer and quite disturbed that my good old method does not work on these.

I had one slightly succesful slicing expereince on a Luxeon Q before, and remembered from that one that I needed a slicing guide. The Nicha dome being so stiff I reckoned that it needs slicing thin slices at a time so here's how I solved that (anyone done that before?):

I have this singfire SS C3 waiting for a build sometime (it is actually too heavy for my taste), with a nice brass pill with flat ledboard base. Sanded that base a bit flatter even, and the flashlight head is a pretty convenient adjustable slicing device. It needs a pretty stiff slicing blade, so I used a spare blade for my little Davids planer. One of those break-blades for utility knives should work as well, as well as a blade for the traditional Stanley knife.

With pill upside down, by slowly screwing the pill out (one 20th turn at a time) the dome could be removed slice by slice, making sure the blade was at about the same angle every time and making long smooth slices with a minimum of pressure. The ledboard was pushed down onto the pill pressing my nail right next to the led. This only works well btw if the led is reflowed nice and flat on the ledboard, or the slicing will not be plane with the die.

I ended just above the die, dangerously close in fact, a fraction of the mm, you can see that at the right side of the die the silicone already crumbled a bit and makes a dip.

It helped for controlling the slicing that it was done under a stereo microscope.

At the right at 0.5mA.

From how that looks, you could sell that :-) . I have not proved the result by making a thrower with it that rivals the latest dedomed XP-G2 S4, but it should work alright I guess, at least the tint seems a nice 4000K to me (but I want to see that of course ;-) )..

^ Damn djozz. Beautiful craftsmanship there. Congrats and thank for all the tips you just gave. Looking forward to hearing more about how this dedomed emitter works for you.

Not only the skilled surgery, but check out the macro photography!

Anybody know if it will be offered in 4500 or 4000k? I suppose I could just shave the dome until I get the tint I want… Does shaving affect the CRI at all?

welight (=Cutter) said that they will have the 4000K 83CRI soon

in stock now

Are they on the website?

A bit disappointing result. I built the sliced Nichia 219C above into a UF-1504, with the prototype LD2 driver (that still acts funny when mode changing with the clicky, but high setting works). The current through the Nichia was 5.85A (long live the low Vf), about what the driver is supposed to deliver when in regulation, and close to the ideal current for the led for maximum output. According to the graph of the OP, the output of the Nichia 219C at 5.85A should be about the same as the output of the XP-G2 S4 2B at 4.4A. n10sivern measured this XP-G2 S4 2B led in a UF-1504 at 458kcd where the current was 3.8A. So if this Nichia would perform as well as a dedomed XP-G2, the throw should be above 458kcd, say 480. But what I just measured was just 296kcd, that is 40% less, way less than what any of the normal variations, like lens quality, bin, focus can explain . So this sliced led does not behave like a dedomed Cree led for whatever reason. (or something else is wrong, I ruined the led somehow, I don't know).

The beam is nice enough, a perfect evenly illuminated square (with some 'corona' around it caused by diffused light through the leftover silicone at the side of the die) of very nice tint, but what counts in the end is sheer throw of course. A quick beamshot (not completely sharp focussed):

Has anybody tested or have theories on the affect of shaving or dedoming on CRI?

I still have a couple 5000k sitting on my desk, but I prefer 4500k. I’d be awesome if shaving can get the tint there, but pointless if I lose the High CRI in the process.

I’m guessing it has to do with the surface quality of the sliced face scattering the light coming from the LED. Thoughts?

Essentially like a dirty dome? I know I have seen threads of people polishing sliced domes.

Of the (many, various) 80+ CRI leds that I dedomed thusfar, dedoming makes the tint warmer but the tint always stayed nice, and colour reproduction stayed good. I can not measure CRI, so it is a guess, but I think CRI is not much ruined by dedoming.

This shaved Nichia 219C led I guess at 4500K, so it had a limited tint shift (may or may not have something to do with the quality of the dedoming effect)

My gut tells me that CRI is the product of the phosphors used, therefore unaffected by dome slicing. But obviously the dome has an affect on tint, so…… I wonder if MEM has tools for measuring CRI….

A lot of high-CRI led have the magic high-CRI producing fairy dust mixed into the dome material. I saw some microscope shots of some Nichia LEDs where red granules were embedded in the dome.

Yes they are

We do a lot of spectral testing here for customers, as a comparative point. When you test with and without a secondary optic you can get up to 300Kelvin shift, the logic would say a dome on a led is a primary optic so the same shifts should be expected