Novatac flickers, low battery, full battery, primary battery

jon_slider · 2018-09-26T03:36:37.000Z

Cereal_killer:

More like two thirds.
…
I greatly prefer the ability to charge the batteries and the increased output over that ~33% extra capacity. Infact I don’t notice the reduced capacity IRL at all.

thanks, I like that
I dont find 16340 short lived, I came from AAA
I still use the same levels, under 50 lumens, they just last longer w 16340

chadvone:

Novatac triple

thanks for the driver info… Im actually a bit loyal to the Novatac UI atm

Ive been researching triple options, I just learned that

datiLED will mod a Nova to a triple, PM him
he uses a lathe to custom build a heatsink… quality all the way

2. you can buy a Novatac SPA on Ebay, there are several

here is how one guy rolls his own triple, that has inspired my research

NovaTac 120E Nichia 219B Featured Mods

Sorry I forgot to take picture during the process, but here’s the final result. [image] I use a coin sized copper as the base (heat dissipation won’t be great though) and using rubber silicon to wrap 20 mm TIR optic to fit the host. Triple nichias and optic were bought from Kaidomain.

lumenzilla:

Sorry I forgot to take picture during the process, but here’s the final result.

I use a coin sized copper as the base (heat dissipation won’t be great though) and using rubber silicon to wrap 20 mm TIR optic to fit the host.

Triple nichias and optic were bought from Kaidomain.

here is the preloaded 219c 5000k board he used for a cheap and dirty mod, no lathe work…

https://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-mcpcb-nichia-nvsw219ct-r9050-d240-p-910.html

I would suggest a medium frost optic instead of narrow clear…

chadvone · 2018-09-26T14:39:41.000Z

Its a great UI.
H17f can be set up to come close. Minus press-hold.

ven · 2018-09-26T15:58:39.000Z

I dont like PWM either, or certainly when i can see it Jon. I can not or will not have a light i can see flicker! Simple as that, luckily most(pretty much all i have thinking about it)that have PWM , i can not see it. To me thats what matters, if i can not see it, no distraction……………not a problem for me. Malkoff(iirc the 3 mode) have PWM, again can not see it.
The 47’s mini have it on high , which i find kind of odd, now and then i can kind of pick something up. But i rarely use max anyway, so no big deal.

As with chadvone, the little novatacs are one of my all time fav lights. I just like the older designs, the feel/look and beam.

Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon, too add to the family

219b 4000k/219c 5000k/219b 4000k

lumenzilla · 2018-09-26T17:31:07.000Z

[quote=jon_slider]

Cereal_killer:

here is the preloaded 219c 5000k board he used for a cheap and dirty mod, no lathe work…

https://intl-outdoor.com/noctigon-3xp-mcpcb-nichia-nvsw219ct-r9050-d240-p-910.html

I would suggest a medium frost optic instead of narrow clear…

Well, I was using cheaper method back then, using Kaidomain’s triple Nichias.

Here’s my second attempt (left picture) using Noctigon and Carclo from Intl Outdoor.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnTf5FGgcgh/?taken-by=lumenzilla

jon_slider · 2018-09-26T22:05:06.000Z

ven:

Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon

yes, and a triple Tana Haiku, and a Sundrop
so many lights, so little money… LOL

lumenzilla:

I was using cheaper method back then, using Kaidomain’s triple Nichias .

Here’s my second attempt (left picture) using Noctigon and Carclo from Intl Outdoor.

LumenZilla on Instagram: "The triple Nichia triplets. #novatac #120t #elzetta #zflm60 #flashlight #flashlightmod #edc #everydaycarry #tripleled #nichia219 #triplenichia"

thanks for sharing info, I fixed your Kaidomain link, I see it was a 4000k N219c
while the one from International Outdoor is a 5000k 219c

Your triple mods are an inspiration to me.

Do you have any preferences between the 4000k and 5000k LEDs you tried?
Can you please also share your thoughts, and a link, for which Carclo lens you like?

ven · 2018-09-27T03:41:02.000Z

jon_slider:

ven:

Bout time you got a HDS rotary Jon

yes, and a triple Tana Haiku, and a Sundrop
so many lights, so little money… LOL

You read my mind!

jon_slider · 2018-09-29T08:04:29.000Z

lol

I wish Novatac had a battery charge level indicator

Here is another type of Flicker,
the Novatac Low 16340 Battery Warning, its actually a flashing mode, on the lowest setting.

With 1634O detected, installing a cr123 also causes the light to step down to a flashing low mode.

That is the 16340 low battery warning being triggered by a 3v Primary cell.

Novatac battery detection is memorized.
Battery Detection is not automatic.

Here are the battery detect instructions for Novatac.
Battery Detect Reset is needed to switch between Primary batteries and 16340.

—-

hdssystems.com

NovaTacUsersGuide.pdf

90.68 KB

NovaTac 85P/120P Flashlight User’s Guide
Copyright 2013 by Henry Schneiker All rights reserved
August 8, 2013
—-
Soft-Reset – fix an unresponsive state or part of a higher level reset. If your light is working normally, turn your light on and unscrew the battery case until the light goes out, count to three and then screw the battery case back together. If your light is in an unresponsive state, remove the batteries for 2 minutes and then reinstall them. Identified by 1 second of dim light. Does not change your settings.

Battery-Detect-Reset – required to detect battery configuration changes. Perform a soft-reset but while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 5 seconds until your light dims. Release the button when your light dims. Identified by 5 seconds of bright light followed by dim light. Does not change your settings.
—-
How I do it

turn on light, with full battery of your choice, 16340 or Primary
unscrew tail cap a couple of turns, til light turns off
Hold the button and screw tail tight (hold button because its easier than trying to catch a 1 second dim light signal), keep holding for 5 seconds of bright light, let go when the light goes dim.

done!

jon_slider · 2018-10-24T19:18:11.000Z

Novatac Gold Storm Flicker report

Today My Storm decided to inform me, prematurely, that it would be good to recharge the battery:

Thereby becoming a candidate for a driver swap, possibly to H17f… or signal spring eliminator:

CRX:

I made a prototype brass sleeve to contain a copper sliding bar with a spring on the end so the light can run on 18350 cells and dispense with the signal spring.

HDS decided to turn the Flicker into a feature, not a bug, lol

update
upon further investigation, suspecting a problem with the signal spring shorting to ground, I slapped the light around a few times, and she got turned ON! I just cannot abide a masochist, so I grabbed a Q-Tip and some Alcohol, and proceeded to rectify the situation.

Problem solved.

Note dirty contacts, and flicker, are a documented point of failure in HDS designs that use a signal spring such as the B42 and U60 that preceded the Novatac:

B42 manual https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/EdcBasic/EdcBasicUsersGuide.pdf
“Note: you may notice a slight flicker on the Minimum brightness setting. This is normal. “

U60 manual: https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/EdcUltimate/EdcUltimateUsersGuide.pdf
“Note: you may notice a slight flicker on the very low brightness levels. This is normal.”

.

elsewhere in the manual, in reference to low batteries it says:
“The same behavior can also occur if the battery contacts become dirty. Gently wiping the battery contacts with a clean dry cloth is normally sufficient to remove dirt. If in doubt, please replace your batteries.”

So I decided to clean the contacts, and after that I could no longer turn the light ON by slapping it.

…

Note to self, too much lubricant can ground the switch signal wire erratically…

fwiw, I have also had twisties become flickery and unreliable after too much lubrication, and the solution was the same, clean the contacts…

this is not an HDS/Novatac specific issue… Too Much Lube is Bad!

chadvone · 2018-10-25T00:22:33.000Z

Just checked my Novatac 120E. It has horrible flicker,buzz, noise, etc etc.
Doesn’t matter what cell or what battery configured.

Might make a good host for a mode someday.

jon_slider · 2018-10-25T01:59:59.000Z

chadvone:

Just checked my Novatac 120E. It has horrible flicker,buzz, noise

sad, but glad you have something to work on

So far every single flicker incident I have had with my 4 Novatac, and 1 EDC Basic (body tube), was traced back to the signal spring shorting out

cleaning the contacts, and replacing, or reseating the spring has solved the issues… for me
Unique Titanium has springs for $4

jon_slider · 2018-10-26T07:44:57.000Z

Ok, Another Novatac Gold Storm Flicker report

today the light started flickering at the 13 lumen level, same as described in Post 25. Like last time, it also flickered on minimum… Im talking about flicker so obvious a child could see it… not just something my snobby trained eyes can detect in rare circumstances… I mean like, no, I cant use this light like this, kind of flicker.

Nothing I tried solved the problem, not a flash of high mode, not cleaning all the contacts again, not slapping it… nothing… this light just Flickers!

The flicker went away when I installed a fresh battery.

The one I took out was at 3.82v… note that yesterdays flicker report was coincidentally at a very similar voltage, 3.84v. Two different 16340 batteries. My current belief is that this Novatac just does not like 3.8x volts. It works without flickering at lower voltages, including on Primary batteries…

fwiw, I started this thread with a report of Visible flickering on a different Novatac, in that one the battery was at 3.57v.

So, it seems as though there is a Flicker issue with the Novatac circuit, when a LiIon is about 1/2 discharged, not just on one light.

.

I did already do a battery detect reset for LiIon prior to the last 2 Flicker events.
there is more detail about that in this thread
Novatac LiIon Low Battery Voltage Warning System features

At this point I dont think this Flickering is an issue that can be eliminated.
imo The solution is simply to use a fresh battery.

Its a Feature, not a Bug
An undocumented Low Voltage Warning

if there was a line in the manual that said something like:

Note, when using LiIon below 3.85v, the light will flicker to remind you to replace and recharge.

it would have saved me a lot of grief

Im moving on from Clicky UI’s
My next adventure is to experience the HDS Rotary interface… stay tuned for those Investigative Reports of flickers, tints, beams, ergonomics, and UI’s

Now that the Gold Storm is out of my pocket, what took its place?
I went back to my Utorch S1 Mini, modded w N219b 4500k 9080
I love the Aspheric Beam! I call it my Budget Sundrop

Its the one in the middle:

and on the left:

totally different beam, size, weight, than the Novatac… each has its pros and cons… choices are good

.

New Experiment

I changed the Battery Detection on the Gold Storm to Primary

ran the light on its maxiumum of about 85 lumens for 35 minutes, and got the battery down to 3.84 volts.

turned the light on at 13 lumens, and it started to flicker,

just like when it was set to LiIon Battery detect

sooo… I ran it on high for another 5 minutes, to see if I can have some NoFlicker time, below 3.84v…

YES! after 5 minutes on high the battery is at 3.77v and the light does not flicker on the 13 lumen mode anymore

so, the type of battery detection has nothing to do with the 3.8x flicker, and it not only has an identifyable start of flicker voltage, theres a point after which it no longer flickers… about 5 minutes on high, or less…

so I reset battery detection to LiIon

and to confirm it was enabled I inserted a battery that was at 3.04 v and as expected, the light stepped down from High and refused to give more than 27 lumens… I knew where this was headed… to the 3v low mode blinking, where no other mode works…

then, to see if I could get under the low voltage blinks, I inserted a battery at 2.92 volts and found it would power the light with no low voltage warning… except that it stepped down to 64 lumens, and would not give more, but it also did not blink or flash

so again, there is a cut off below which the Low Voltage warning stops interfering with normal use…

.
moral of the story, if a Novatac blinks at you when the battery is up around 3.8v, and you want it to stop, force high mode for a while, maybe it will get over its need for attention…

jon_slider · 2018-10-26T19:51:47.000Z

Todays Update

since it is now clear to me that the Gold Storm has a LiIon flicker problem at 3.84v, I have decided not to use LiIon in this light.

I reset the battery detect to Primary, and inserted a Primary CR123… all is well… No Flicker to report today.

In this Battery Detect mode, there will be NO Low Voltage warning at 3v either. I can still use LiIon, and since I only use Protected cells, it matters not at all, to me, that the 3v Low Voltage Blinking is DisAbled.

In fact, its better with NO LiIon Battery Detection, since I can use a 3v primary without ending up with a light that is Blinking on Lowest mode.

On to the next Adventures!

Lithium · 2018-10-28T21:46:37.000Z

Jon,

Please send that Gold Novatac to me, I’m willing to make it a triple with H17f driver…or probably more realistically, keep the single led and just change the driver

jon_slider · 2018-10-29T03:02:13.000Z

Thanks for the offer to help. Very much appreciated.

I will think on that H17f after i hear how the black 120t works out. I have been offered the stock driver that CRX is replacing w H17f

chadvone · 2018-10-29T03:10:57.000Z

I want to see the Novatac H17f for sure.

Lithium · 2018-10-29T09:16:14.000Z

Oh, stock driver is even better…well, not for power, but I like the original UI, as you know

jon_slider · 2018-10-29T23:12:54.000Z

I like the stock UI too… when it does not flicker

The H17f driver in the triple Novatac that CRX is building for a friend, may be done in the next week. Im looking forward to his impressions.

Lithium · 2018-10-30T00:51:00.000Z

Looking forward to that too!

CRX · 2018-10-30T01:20:09.000Z

Shame, I’m away for three months

lumenzilla · 2018-10-31T07:14:58.000Z

Lithium:

Oh, stock driver is even better…well, not for power, but I like the original UI, as you know

I second that.
Been looking for driver (17mm) with same UI but none the result.