Open question to the Chinese flashlight makers/retailers

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

This is an honest set of questions, they are not intended to flame, merely ask “why” and to see if there is a valid reason for them being this way.

Question 1:

Next Mode Memory.

Why does this exist, what is the logic, rational or “use case” for it?

Is it actually intentional as part of the design and implemented on purpose?

Is there a cost implication or technical limitation to implementing a mode memory that works? I have other flashlights were the mode memory works perfectly in remembering the mode I was using last and will turn on next time with it.

Question 2:

PWM

I don’t personally have anything against PWM lights. But is there a reason (again money or technical) on why so many budget lights use such a low frequency that it in turn causes issues when using the torch?

The A8 BLF Edition and other premium lights from people like Klarus and Crelant show PWM can work very well and be pretty much un-intrusive. What reason is there for such PWM settings on budget lights?

Question 3:

Modes

Why is there such a heavy focus on having 5+ modes on most budget lights. H-M-L would suffice for almost all of them and having to scroll through “disco” modes is just a turn off.

I can see there may be a selling point for strobes and the like, but is this really the case? Just look at any of the bigger/premium flashlight makers, they all know not to do this. So why does the budget market persist in producing mode sequences people don’t really want?

Thank you.

2

I completely agree, but they wont listen.

3

I agree 100% with all of this.

Even more for Question #3, I’ve spent a good amount of money upgrading lights already this year, first and foremost, to eliminate the blinkie modes on my favorite lights, and secondly to up the power a bit on those same favorite lights.

Typically, to get a budget light built correctly with the proper features, usually only happens for Group Buys, which certainly does empower us as a forum. The second option, nearly as good, is to purchase from IOS or sometimes CNQ, which on certain purchases, the buyer may have the opportunity to order with the LED and Modes of choice. Definitely a good step in the right direction for sure and why both those retailers continue to get my business. FastTech is another excellent retailer that’s been doing a great job for this forum as well.

4

I agree, its worth a bit extra not having to dig out the iron when your new toy arrives.

5

Hi,

I’m kind of new here, and also to this “hobby”, but my impression that, to a lot of you (us?), “having to dig out the iron when your new toy arrives” is half, or maybe more, of the fun/challenge? Is that impression incorrect?

I would also agree, though, that lights that are not up-to-snuff should be priced accordingly…

Jim

6

The next mode memory is normally just due to the time for memory to kick in being set too long. Imo modes should be much harder to switch between, with either a <500ms memory time, or even needing triple presses to switch instead of one.

For example, the manafont/ultrafire 3 mode T6 drop-in has great memory with works even after a few hundred ms of being OFF, great for a basic reverse clicky. The NANJG drivers, while good quality and high PWM, use a longer timing, and also remember according to how long the light has been on rather than OFF, which I think is much better suited to forward than reverse clickies.

7

+1 to OP

If I can buy an unbranded DIY host instead of a the pre-built light. Id rather build it myself. Usually that means putting in what I would consider a better/more suitable driver/led or both.
Even if the host is a couple of bucks more expensive id pay the extra.

8

I was in this exact situation recently with a Torchlite build. One of the best experiences I’ve had as a flashaholic was to pick and choose all the components I wanted and installed them, so the light was perfect with the first switch-on :bigsmile:

9

Hi,

As I said, I’m kind of new, and haven’t gotten to the stage that a lot of you are yet :)…. but someday….

Jim

10

Question 4 Effin glue! |(

Why the hell do you glue the treads? |(

11

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, many of us enjoy that challenge as well, and it can become very challenging at times. I honestly believe this “having to dig out the iron” came about due to some of the reasons originally mentioned in the original post above. Manufacturers tend to drive lights a bit on the conservative side, and sometimes overly conservative, so we as flashaholics want them driven as we feel they should have been in the first place.

Now, in addition to overdriving our lights, which has been going on forever, we’re also getting into this “AR” coated lens thing, myself included. Hey, the very expensive lights have it and get a 5–8 OTF boost, so we want it in our budget lights as well.

Our lights are not perfect, but I believe we will always strive to make them perfect, as each of us must determine what perfection is for ourselves.

12

Richie,

Thanks for the welcome. I think you hit the proverbial “nail on the head” with you last sentence/paragraph. Although I’ve not yet gotten the nerve, or learned, to do a real mod, I’m fascinated by reading all of them, and I “feel the urge” to find that “perfect light” for ME… Since I’m not yet at the stage of modding, that means buying them instead, for the time being. One of the things I’ve been grateful for, being here, is having the opportunity of “riding on the backs” of others via the pre-order things (I got in on the Dxx one… have no idea what I’ll get, but figured I’d try it).

Thanks again.

Jim

13

hi jim, your right that modding is enjoyable, sometimes though, you just want a package that works out of the box. Intloutdoor, cnqg and now fasttech all supply a range of lights that allow you to have your ideal lighg pre assembled.

As Richie points out, picking up a diy host and picking the components yourself is a very rewarding experience, I have built a few, even done a write up detailing the assembly of one and the net result is generally, you get a much nicer host with better internals for a little more outlay over a true budget light and an hours work.

The not having to dig the iron out was half tongue in cheek, it is sometimes nice to not be thinking “this needs this/that doing”

welcome to the forum, I’ve seen your costco light thread so I guess your already on the way towards modding, I would very much suggest you try out a host build, I think its something you’ll enjoy, and anyone here will be more than happy to assist you in making good choices for a satisfying light build.

14

I agree, and I’d love for someone who will design the lights to see this post, but I kinda doubt they will. I think all the answers are straightforward: price, price, and price/wowfactor… They always want to advertise the most modes/lumens/functions, so they went with the cheapest and highest mode unit I’m going to bet and until someone engineers something cheaper or people show they are willing to pay a lot more for a change in this, I doubt they would change it…

15

It is interesting that this "why so low PWM" comes up again, but flashlight like Terminator with 200Hz bad PWM sell like mad right on this forum, exactly for that power factor. Not only that but there are other 7-9LED flashlights in the same situation.

Still since many are collectors, may not even care about it down deep, only for their EDC flashlight. As I said some time ago, probably these brands have the best sales in the flashlight industry and that is a clear sign for them, that they have made a great product.

The Strobe and SOS is a bit more complicated. For someone which has never or used bought a multimode flashlight, 5 modes may sound cool, it has the strobe and SOS "when you need it".
If it's got Strobe, some may actually like it, as they feel like having a military/police tactical tool. Actually if you got friends you know, show them some flashlights, most of them will simply play with the strobe for minutes.

16

I can agree. My first flashlight with LED (5 years ago) was a 5 mode version and I love it. I had never used a flashlight before with more as one mode and now I had five and play a lot. After a few weeks I notice how useless the blink modes are. After this I search for better solutions and if the budgetlight (for the first two years my flashlightlimit was $25, afetr this time I bought more expensive lights) don’t offer what I need I bought driver like the AK47 oder the Nanjg.

I like three modes (with blink is perfect, the combination high, low, strobe is acceptable, if I use the flashlight not every day).

The 5 modes driver are even cheaper: You can buy 5 drivers for about $1,40 each (maybe cheaper), for a 3 mode (without blinking or a Nanjg) you pay around $3.

Flashaholics don’t bother the $1,50 more, but manufacturer want to produce for the cheapest prices.

This is the reason, why fasttech and IO have such a success - they offer what we like (we don’t have to solder a new driver in it).

17

Howdy, Chicken Drumstick! I love this approach!

I’d like to offer an alternative perspective.

This thread might (perhaps) never be read by the actual people who design these circuits. But wait, there’s more…

It is entirely possible (IMNERHO, of course) that these circuit designers NEVER get to know what exactly it is that we, their ultimate end-user customers, actually want. Ab initio, from the Planning Phase right up until we toss their dim, blinky POSs into the recycle bins or recycle them ourselves. And who makes the circuits we DO select, compromised or not, for those self-recycling projects? I look at the geopolitical reality of “free” communication inter- and intra-China and wonder how they even know we exist. Have you seen any of them posting or lurking on ANY forum??

It might not be that they seek to annoy us and cause our potential customers to curse at us and our nifty, expensive, dark-smashing toys… They may just not have the communication channel between them and us.

Which would have to include this thread, unfortunately.

Any replies from, say, Nanjg engineers? What about the people who build the undocumented “CX-_” circuits I seem to find in many of the cheaper “1000 lumen XM-L XML” flashlights? I hope so, but wouldn’t bet on it.

Unfortunately for us, “the retailers” (wholesalers, actually, like DX, FT, etc.) don’t seem to have any better access to the design process than we do.

Plus, they have all those bazillions of flashy-blinky-dim-mode-memory drivers to sell…

But I could just be…

Dim

18

Maybe it sets the memory according to time it’s been on rather than off? You could try turning it on for a full minute, then off and on again and it may have triggered the memory.

19

I have never seen that happen, and I pester people constantly about the new flashlights.

Generally speaking, when they see the “High”, they squint and say “WOW”! When they see it can be dimmed to save battery life and for appropriate use, they say “Ahhh”! And when the strobe mode kicks in, they turn it off, hand it back to me and never speak of it again. I once tried to get one “turn-off” back by offering to let her set the price. “Nah, that’s too much money for a flashlight!” When I asked what would be better, she said “I never pay as much as $5 for any flashlight!” This was after we spent 10 minutes listening to her brag about her police-officer roommate’s issue flashlight (Xenon, 1-mode, uncompromising WHITE light and lots of it for a few seconds until the $2.00 batteries go down some) which cost closer to $100 than to the price I never even mentioned.

Stupid blinking modes!!! She never even got to see the stupid “Cree Color Rings”, so the blame seems to land on the Driver’s UI, not the light “quality”.

(Full disclosure: I’ll barely tolerate the weird colors for now, but I want dimming modes ONLY and no mode memory, just come On in FULLY ON and let me switch to a dim mode if I must. “Must” meaning I should work at it, not just switch the light On or Off, regardless of how fast. Speaking of switches, may I please have Momentary-ON so if I ever do want to blink, I can? And until then I can “peek” at things without committing to fully turning on the light (and without changing the mode every time)?)

PS: I believe that the reason so many poor designs “sell like mad” is that Marketeers have a better understanding of Human Nature than Engineers do. And the majority of the “sell like mad” lights, I’d wager, end up buried in a drawer with dead batteries, within a year or less. It’s one thing to read a glowing description (or NO description, most of the time!!) and lots of enthusiastic “customer reviews”; but quite another to deal with the reality of “buyer’s remorse” and the way moving objects look so weird in the dimmed light, or the weird colors of the light itself and the things it illuminates. Worse yet, if you look at the Nanjg-105c, you will discover there are at least TWO DIFFERENT DEVICES WITH THE SAME NAME. Our ability to choose “wisely” just went out the window. Engineers build things and wouldn’t likely ever do that. Marketeers sell things and don’t care what’s printed on the circuit board. That’s what I think, but I’m just…

Dim

20

Maybe the pestering is inhibiting some people :)