Panasonic NCR 18650GA 3500mAh keeps dying after short period of use

tatasal · 2018-10-29T11:45:25.000Z

Perhaps this thread of mine about the Sanyo brand compared to the other major manufacturers has some commonality about the Sanyo brand:

Deep discharge revival and capacity retention performance between brands: What's your experience? Rechargeable Batteries

When I started this hobby in 2012, lithium-ion batteries were quite rare then (specifically 18650s) and we have to settle with the usual ‘Fire’ batteries/light/charger combos. I then bought the highly-regarded Pila IBC and the Maha C9000 to start it right. When I became a member of both forum (CPF, then here), I became aware of the horrors, deceit and dangers of the ‘Fire’ batteries so I turned to discarded laptop batt packs just to get hold of Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Sony and Sanyo brands, af…

zillah · 2018-10-29T11:51:10.000Z

Thanks tatasal

I read your thread

What is your recommendation brand (based on your experience ) ? and where can I buy them (preferable ebay) ?

tatasal · 2018-10-29T11:59:42.000Z

I bought my GAs from Banggood, though now that you are yourself apprehensive about its longevity as I am, I’d rather get Samsung, Sony or LG.

So far the LG followed by the Samsung are the most durable among my cells with regards to battery life and capacity retention, even after repeated deeply discharged conditions, and even from long-term less than a volt state-of-charge.

zillah · 2018-10-29T12:29:57.000Z

>>So far the LG <<

I will try LG

From where did you get them ? can you please send me the link

Ocelot · 2018-10-29T12:40:25.000Z

Hello Zillah!

The cell and charger you chose are good quality, however a words of caution about eBay, it is flooded with poor quality cells and some fakes. Some are ridiculously overrated, incorrectly priced, and in general very misleading.

I had to learn the expensive way, Being a newbie without much experience. Everything changed when I found a specialized seller, LithiumIon Wholesale, www.liionwholesale.com. They have an excellent selection of highest quality cells with great pricing and great support. Only caveat is shipping expense for your location.

The 3500GA is of the highest capacity 18650 cells available. On the Liionwholesale site there are very detailed instructions on proper charge technique and important DOs and DONTs, as well as extensive useful customer reviews. Read and follow those recommendations, and I think you will have a completely different experience. Even if you buy elsewhere, the knowledge there is unbiased and invaluable, which earned my business. Hope this helps.

The LG MJ1 3500 mAh cells (Green) I’ve had superb experience with and should be an ideal solution for

Your Boruit headlamp. Make sure you select the button top variety.

Best of Luck my friend!

zillah · 2018-10-29T12:45:00.000Z

Thanks Ocelot

Only caveat is shipping expense for your location.

Yes that is true.

The LG MJ1 3500 mAh cells (Green) I’ve had superb experience with and should be an ideal solution for

Your Boruit headlamp. Make sure you select the button top variety.

Noted with thanks

Macka17 · 2018-10-29T13:30:31.000Z

Hi.
I’ve got the Panasonic 18650A’s Protected and UN protected.
On multiple Torches. for a few yrs now. So far. OK Still holding capacity and giving enough output for What I use up to XPL-Hi.
Recently I’ve bought some Samsung 30Q’s. which have a 15ma output over the 5 or 6 of the A’s.
they get a VERY good rep from most of the experienced on here I find.
And cover the output for my Convoy L2/L6/C8+ and a coupla other heavy output ones.
I think you’ll find that the max capacity battery’s are not the max, output ones,
that seems the domain of the 2600ish capacity ones from reading.
Here in AUst we can’t get cheap battery’s Aussie mail won’t allow battery imports. we have to pay full price ($27-$45each)or make do with the backyard dealers that don’t supply genuine items.

RobertB · 2018-10-29T15:48:28.000Z

Seriously doubt there is anything wrong with those cells. Been using many of those GA’s for a long time. I’d start by getting a better charger. I’ve had mixed experiences with that UM20 flat top vs button tops. Taking too long to charge. Finding a high enough Amp usb wall wart to power it, and not being able to charge an over discharged cell.

The Nitecore D2 or D4 are nice. The Opus BT-C3100 will allow you to discharge, charge, and test your batteries.

Henk4U2 · 2018-10-29T15:59:15.000Z

A few short remarks about the previous entries.

- How about the on/off switch on the Boruit light. They are notorious. And what about parasytic drain?

- GA’s are good cells. I agree they’re not the problem. But unprotected can’t cope with the previous issue.

- I own the OPUS, not a bad word. But generally XTAR chargers have a revive modus that enables them to revive Li-Ion batteries that are not recognised as such by the OPUS charger. (batteries at 2.0V are invisible to the OPUS)

tatasal · 2018-10-29T16:36:46.000Z

Oh I forgot about my Boruits. l once bought 4 of them, one was DOA, the other 3 worked for a short time.

Very poor reliability headlamps, those Boruits of mine.

RobertB · 2018-10-29T16:44:18.000Z

Henk4U2:

A few short remarks about the previous entries.

- How about the on/off switch on the Boruit light. They are notorious. And what about parasytic drain?

- GA’s are good cells. I agree they’re not the problem. But unprotected can’t cope with the previous issue.

- I own the OPUS, not a bad word. But generally XTAR chargers have a revive modus that enables them to revive Li-Ion batteries that are not recognised as such by the OPUS charger. (batteries at 2.0V are invisible to the OPUS)

Must not have ever charged a cell under 2v with my Opus. Never really paid attention. Have had it for over 3yrs and charged thousands, of 18650’s with it. Mostly vape batteries, at least 3 a day. I personally don’t like any usb powered 18650 chargers.

zillah · 2018-10-31T08:52:47.000Z

Thanks Robert

I’d start by getting a better charger.

Are you saying The Nitecore UM20 that I have got not reliable for charging those batteries ?

Issue batteries won't get charged neither via headlight USB port nor via Nitecore UM20 and both methods via USB cables ?

Opus BT-C3100 will allow you to discharge, charge, and test your batteries.

Do you recommend this ?

Oh I forgot about my Boruits.

I wouldn't expect to be a quality.

Could be non quality headlight killing those batteries ?

zillah · 2018-10-29T19:12:44.000Z

Thanks Henk4U2

How about the on/off switch on the Boruit light.

Yes it is not quality headlight but switch looks to me okay

But unprotected can’t cope with the previous issue.

Which issue?

generally XTAR chargers have a revive modus that enables them to revive Li-Ion batteries that are not recognised as such by the OPUS charger.

Do you recommend XTAR over OPUS ?

RobertB · 2018-10-29T19:28:02.000Z

zillah:

Thanks Robert

I’d start by getting a better charger.

Are you saying The Nitecore UM20 that I have got not reliable for charging those batteries ?

Issue batteries won’t get charged neither via headlight USB port nor via Nitecore UM20 and both methods via USB cables ?

Yes, thats what I’m saying. “Problem batteries” The Miboxer C2-6000 is a nice two slot charger that can recover severely discharged cells.

MRsDNF · 2018-10-29T19:28:01.000Z

I’d be happy to test your battery. I’m in Melbourne. not sure where you are.

wstrachan · 2018-10-29T21:06:02.000Z

The application you are using the 18650GA for is perfectly in the batteries capability The cells don’t have any protection to trip so I am going to guess they are fakes….
BTW, that headlight is running CREE XM-L2s at max of 10w each, likely less. Your two cells should be able to handle that easily. I’m speculating here but max amp draw should be around 7.5-9A. That headlight isn’t putting out anywhere near 13,000 lumens. Probably around 3,000.
The Sanyo NCR18650GA is an excellent middle discharge cell with excellent capacity. I have about 12-15 of them running various lights, lanterns and one power bank. They have excellent life, low sag and perform as claimed. Some of mine are well over 1.5 years old seeing regular use. They are a reliable cell which makes me speculate again yours are fakes. Counterfeit cells are big business nowadays. The good ones can fool the most thorough inspection so a good tester of capacity is about the only way to tell unless externally there is an obvious flaw (Bad wraps, codes dont match up, etc).
The genuine NCR18650GA cells have a slightly raised positive so there would be no need to offer a button top (Clue #2).
Just my $0.02.

wstrachan · 2018-10-29T21:22:03.000Z

This Liitokla “engineer” charger can be had for under $20 and is worth every penny. It can measure capacity and internal resistance pretty well.

LiitoKala Lii-500 Lithium And NiMH Battery LCD Smartest Charger

mud_muncher · 2018-10-29T22:19:41.000Z

Where these left in the head torch for any amount of time before you found them dead? I bet it was a parasitic drain that has run them down to zero. This could happen relative quickly especially if the batteries where near flat when you put them away.

YOU can bring them back, but whether you SHOULD is a whole other story. You may of even gone into negative charge if they were in series.

Henk4U2 · 2018-10-29T23:16:17.000Z

zillah:

Thanks Henk4U2

How about the on/off switch on the Boruit light.

Yes it is not quality headlight but switch looks to me okay

But unprotected can’t cope with the previous issue.

Which issue?

generally XTAR chargers have a revive modus that enables them to revive Li-Ion batteries that are not recognised as such by the OPUS charger.

Do you recommend XTAR over OPUS ?

- there are reports that switches are falling out, or rather are falling in (the enclosure).
The driver seems to be less than perfect, with the main light dimming when you ignite the two other leds.

- IF the issue is the driver or other internal electronics, it can wear out the batteries, even when sitting on a shelf.
A protected battery stops at 2.8-3.0V, an unprotected battery stops when it is completely drained/dead.
A protected battery can be charged as usual, an unprotected battery can (sometimes) be revived.

- The OPUS is an analysing charger and has more possibilities and options than any of my XTAR chargers. But it does not revive a Li-Ion battery that is drained to a voltage just above that of a NiMH battery.

zillah · 2018-10-31T08:15:49.000Z

Where these left in the head torch for any amount of time before you found them dead?

What I normally do I leave them in the head torch.

Approximately every two weeks when I have night shift work I charge them while driving to work

Last week while I was driving to the work night shift I used USB cable supplied with head light and I drove for about 2 hours (means batteries on charge for 2 hours)

while I was at work I tried to use the head light nothing tuned on !!!! hooked head torch with USB cable there is light once I unplugged no light!!! same happened before two months with different set of battries

When I came home and used my USB Nitecore UM20 charger and charger read zero means batteries not getting charged

Regards