Parasitic drain values?

Jack_Kellar · 2019-03-03T19:34:35.000Z

toddcshoe:

I know there are some lights that can kill a cell in a few months. Now that is good information to have. I don’t keep flashlights with those kind of drain rates. I don’t care how nice it is, it serves no useful purpose to me if it kills itself every other month.

No Nitecore for you then, Todd.

jon_slider · 2019-03-03T19:52:08.000Z

here btw is a list of lights with Standby or Parasitic current Drain … not because I avoid them, just because I was curious

since I charge the batteries in my EDC lights every week or two, a light with a 1 year parasitic drain does not concern me

for lights that are stored for emergencies… maybe better to store the battery outside the light, or use physical lockout

toddcshoe · 2019-03-03T20:28:19.000Z

Jack Kellar:

toddcshoe:

I know there are some lights that can kill a cell in a few months. Now that is good information to have. I don’t keep flashlights with those kind of drain rates. I don’t care how nice it is, it serves no useful purpose to me if it kills itself every other month.

No Nitecore for you then, Todd.

Do they have bad drain? The only Nitecore lights I have had are the Tini and Tip. They always come on in my pocket so they are always dead anyway.

robertsig · 2019-03-08T00:25:04.000Z

Lightbringer:

Dunno about anyone else, but if I know I’m not going to be regularly using a light, even with a tail-clicky, I do a TCLO to keep it from being accidentally turned on. Give it a ½-turn… how hard is that?

Well I use BLF not just to buy lights for me, but to research lights as gifts for F&F. That being said, even as somebody in the know, I try to avoid any flashlights with substantial standby drain. I'm also not a fan of lights with complicated UI's. It's easier for me to use the same lights I recommend to others.

On a personal note, I think it's completely silly that flashlights need 6 modes with 8 steps and various blinky options. Not once in my life, ever, have I come remotely to needing an SOS flashlight. And if I put myself into that situation, I'd have a light dedicated to do that. I don't need my EDC to do that.

BlueSwordM · 2019-03-08T00:43:17.000Z

Most BLF lights have extremely low standby drain, and BLF lights can be set to have very simple UIs, like a simple 4 mode with moonlight and hidden blinkies when needed.

jon_slider · 2019-03-08T01:05:56.000Z

robertsig:

I try to avoid any flashlights with substantial standby drain.

how substantial are we talking about here?
like, drains the battery in a year, or a week?

.

BlueSwordM:

extremely low standby drain

How low is extremely, drains the light in a year, or 3 years, or?

.

just looking to quantify the drain in calendar time…
the mAh numbers mean little to me (how little you ask? well, meaningless really )

BlueSwordM · 2019-03-08T01:16:52.000Z

GT Mini: 20uA in lockout(max value I’ve seen with my sample: 22uA, min value: 15,96uA)

3,0Ah/0,00002A = 150 000h = 17,1 years.

Basically, the cell will have self-discharged completely before the light drains it noticeably.

BLF Q8:

12,0Ah/0,00002A = 68 years.

Again, this is very low, and lower than the cell’s self-discharged, and can be considered negligible.

Still, if you want the absolute best, get a tailswitch only light.

But e-switches can now fight on the same level of standby drain.

Pete7874 · 2019-03-08T02:13:26.000Z

jon_slider:

here btw is a list of lights with Standby or Parasitic current Drain … not because I avoid them, just because I was curious

Link not working.

ChrisGarrett · 2019-03-08T02:21:15.000Z

BlueSwordM:

GT Mini: 20uA in lockout(max value I’ve seen with my sample: 22uA, min value: 15,96uA)

3,0Ah/0,00002A = 150 000h = 17,1 years.

Basically, the cell will have self-discharged completely before the light drains it noticeably.

BLF Q8:

12,0Ah/0,00002A = 68 years.

Again, this is very low, and lower than the cell’s self-discharged, and can be considered negligible.

Still, if you want the absolute best, get a tailswitch only light.

But e-switches can now fight on the same level of standby drain.

That is the important part—parasitic drain in quality lights is less than the self discharge rate of quality cells. It’s practically a non issue today.

Chris

jon_slider · 2019-03-08T03:45:01.000Z

Pete7874:

jon_slider:

here btw is a list of lights with Standby or Parasitic current Drain
Standby/parasitic current drain … not because I avoid them, just because I was curious

Link not working.

thanks
fixed:?
https://lygte-info.dk/info/standbyCurrent%20UK.html

BlueSwordM:

GT Mini: 20uA in lockout(max value I’ve seen with my sample: 22uA, min value: 15,96uA)

so 3000mAh battery, 20uA drain, 17 years
50uA drain from a 1200 mAh 18350 = 2.72 years?
or
50uA drain from a 700mAh 16340, 1 year 7 months?

Lithium primaries are a better choice for lights that dont get used for months at a time, imo, and would last 3 years ?w a CR123 draining at 50uA

ChrisGarrett:

That is the important part—parasitic drain in quality lights is less than the self discharge rate of quality cells. It’s practically a non issue today.

how much time do you think is long enough to be a non issue?
how often do you suggest rechecking batteries on stored lights?

If the new RRT-01 50uA standby drain might last 1 1/2 years on a 16340
do you consider it useful for EDC?

BlueSwordM · 2019-03-08T03:33:49.000Z

Damn. Where did you find a 45625Ah 16340 for the RRT-01?

I’d like to buy your nuclear fission powered 16340.

jon_slider · 2019-03-08T03:36:25.000Z

lol
I told you the numbers were greek to me

help!

I give you data, you give me math?
50uA drain from 1200mAh… how long will it last?

BlueSwordM · 2019-03-08T03:38:42.000Z

@jon_slider

If the new RRT-01 draws 50mA… for 1,5 years…

That’s why I said such a huge number

At 50uA, the cell will last:

1,2Ah/0,00005A = 2,73 years.

You’re good at math don’t worry.

jon_slider · 2019-03-08T03:51:41.000Z

aargh, fixed, thank you
I suck at power of 10 math nomenclature… LOL

so, does the RRT-01 have a “reasonable” or even, “trivial” parasitic drain if it pulls 50uA of those power of ten units you were talking about, out of a 16340, full of 700mAh of those other little power of 10 units you were talking about?

and
I would like to buy a few decimal places please… lol

Pete7874 · 2019-03-08T04:37:36.000Z

50μA isn’t great, but not too terrible, IMO. However, this obviously needs to be considered in conjunction with overall cell capacity. If you only have 700 mAh available, then, as you already calculated, it will take about 1.6 years to deplete, not accounting for cell self discharge, so in reality, the cell will go dead sooner. But honestly, if you’re not going to be using a light for a year or longer, why not just remove the cell from it, regardless of the amount of parasitic drain? I think this was the point you made earlier.

Mike_C · 2019-03-08T08:19:09.000Z

I made a driver with 1634 and made a few specific changes to for low parasitic drain and got it down to 0.1uA measured on two of my DMMs, the third coudln’t measure it. So yeah, make the driver right and parasitic drain is a thing of the past.

jon_slider · 2019-03-08T09:23:01.000Z

Mike C:

parasitic drain is a thing of the past.

the past had both low and high parasitic drains, depending on the UI

NovaTac, from 2007…3uA, 57 years with CR123

JetBeam
RRT-1: 2mA, 45 days with 18650
RRT-2: 2mA, 45 days with 18650
TC-R3: 2mA, 45 days with 18650

LiteFlux
LF2X: 5uA, 45 years with AA
LF2X: 20uA, 1.9 years with 10440
LF2XT: 7.5uA, 5.1 years with 14500
LF2XT: 2uA, 110 years with AA
LF5XT: 3.3uA, 31 years with 14500
LF5XT: 1uA, 220 years with AA
LF3XT: 8uA, 21 years with CR123

the numbers are all over the map, no rhyme or reason

mmalive · 2019-03-08T09:28:48.000Z

Removing battery from light would help this disease? I remove all batteries when no in continuous use. Excluding internally built in battery packs of course.

jon_slider · 2019-03-08T09:53:49.000Z

mmalive:

Removing battery from light would help this disease? I remove all batteries when no in continuous use. Excluding internally built in battery packs of course.

yes

or in the case of the RRT-01 it is sufficient to just loosen the head, since the threads are anodised…

that wont work on an HDS, pulling the battery out works though…

otoh, if the battery in an hds will last 21 years, who cares if there is parasitic drain?..
I might be using a different light by then…

.

bottom line is, if parasitic drain is measured in years… to me, thats not a problem…
otoh, it is prudent to verify battery voltages periodically, maybe every 3-6 months

robertsig · 2019-03-08T11:32:23.000Z

Wow, Liteflux is all over the map; I've never heard of the brand. I don't consider 2uA much at all. What I've seen reviewed here are like 20uA or higher. So while 1.9 years doesn't sound like a lot, you have to remember that we don't typically discharge our batteries to zero. Also, even losing half the capacity in a given time frame is a lot when you expect it to work. So when you see 1.9 years, I see less than one year.

I created my little spreadsheet for all this.

Drain.xls