PayPal dispute with Gearbest, or just don't bother?

Kalihi · 2019-03-22T04:58:05.000Z

I got a message from Gearbest telling me that a delivery has failed, and that the shipment was returned by the local carrier.

The options they gave me were a refund (minus the return shipping cost), Gearbest points refund (minus the return shipping cost), or re-shipping the package (with me paying for the shipping).

The thing is, this was just a $2 order. Is it worth bothering with a PayPal dispute for such a small amount? Or will ignoring it just embolden the retailers to try even more stunts like this in the future?

Diomedes · 2019-03-22T07:30:42.000Z

Ask Gearbest to refund you the full amount including shipping costs. If they refuse, file a PayPal dispute. I know it’s only a small amount, but in my opinion the seller is responsible for properly delivering the product to you. If the provider they outsourced their delivery serive to failed to deliver the package to your address, that’s the seller’s problem, not yours, and the seller should wear the cost. They can then take recovering their delivery costs up with the delivery provider, not you.

Henk4U2 · 2019-03-22T08:05:48.000Z

So before you ordered, GB had the product, and you had the money.
You made a deal that you get the product, and GB gets the money.
And now, GB has the product (again), and they also have your money.

In simple terms: the seller is responsible for the product until the buyer has it in his/her hands.
GB admits that the product is (again) in their posession, through no act or circumstance on your side.
So it is fair that they fulfill their obligations, because you did fulfill your end of the deal.

GB has two options: fulfill the original deal, and send you the product (you have payed for already).
Or reverse the deal and return (all) the money to you.

I am sursprised that in everything GB proposes, a 3rd party (who f* up) still gets his/her money.

mattadores · 2019-03-22T13:29:40.000Z

Yes you should make GB pay for their mistake. they need to learn through relentless repeated experience people don’t put up with absolute crap.

Maybe after years and years they will learn to provide good customer service.

Seriously, they make a mistake and feel like they have some sort of right to make that the buyers responsibility to look after. You did your part and not only should they do theirs, they should do something extra for inconveniencing the customer. lol let’s start with fixing their own mistakes before we get too excited.

WalkIntoTheLight · 2019-03-22T14:07:17.000Z

I know this will be contrary advice that most people give, but IMO don’t bother. It’s only $2, and not worth your time and hassle and potentially a bad-mark on your Paypal account. Save the disputes for items that are worth something.

We all know GB can have bad customer service. It’s no different than most Chinese retailers, and most retailers from any place in the world. Buying cheap crap and paying almost nothing for it means you’re not going to get good service.

Over the long-run, even with some small losses, it’s still cheaper to buy stuff from China. Just accept that, and eat the $2 loss. Leave a crappy review if it bothers you, though they’ll probably just delete it.

Muto · 2019-03-22T14:48:35.000Z

WalkIntoTheLight:

I know this will be contrary advice that most people give, but IMO don’t bother. It’s only $2, and not worth your time and hassle and potentially a bad-mark on your Paypal account. Save the disputes for items that are worth something.

We all know GB can have bad customer service. It’s no different than most Chinese retailers, and most retailers from any place in the world. Buying cheap crap and paying almost nothing for it means you’re not going to get good service.

Over the long-run, even with some small losses, it’s still cheaper to buy stuff from China. Just accept that, and eat the $2 loss. Leave a crappy review if it bothers you, though they’ll probably just delete it.

Have to agree with this logic and the fact that you do not want to get banned from Gearbest over $2 as they will have something you want for a killer price in the future.
Yes, you could make another account with slightly different spelling and address I suppose.

Can’t get a hamburger and drink for $2 anymore.
Still sucks but also makes you figure any thing under $5 is a gamble as to whether it shows up or not from half way around the world.

One thing that may still work, ask them if they will include the product in with the next order as they will already be shipping an item?
Thanks and good luck with what ever you decide.

Keith

DmK · 2019-03-22T16:02:14.000Z

Banned from GB? Are you seriously? I have had few serious disputes with them, amount ~100-200$ sorted with a help of Paypal. You tell to GB CS you are going to complain to PP, the answer is - go ahead. I’d say do not bother waste your time with CS, claim it.
Killing prices, at GB? haven’t seen them for more than a year, unfortunately for all of us.

mattadores · 2019-03-22T16:37:13.000Z

Muto:

WalkIntoTheLight:

I know this will be contrary advice that most people give, but IMO don’t bother. It’s only $2, and not worth your time and hassle and potentially a bad-mark on your Paypal account. Save the disputes for items that are worth something.

We all know GB can have bad customer service. It’s no different than most Chinese retailers, and most retailers from any place in the world. Buying cheap crap and paying almost nothing for it means you’re not going to get good service.

Over the long-run, even with some small losses, it’s still cheaper to buy stuff from China. Just accept that, and eat the $2 loss. Leave a crappy review if it bothers you, though they’ll probably just delete it.

Have to agree with this logic and the fact that you do not want to get banned from Gearbest over $2 as they will have something you want for a killer price in the future.
Yes, you could make another account with slightly different spelling and address I suppose.

Can’t get a hamburger and drink for $2 anymore.
Still sucks but also makes you figure any thing under $5 is a gamble as to whether it shows up or not from half way around the world.

One thing that may still work, ask them if they will include the product in with the next order as they will already be shipping an item?
Thanks and good luck with what ever you decide.

Keith

I get your logic but can’t believe how much power you’re willing to give a business in the name of a good deal. I forgo customer service when I deal with these Chinese online superstores with the understanding that if I ever have a legitimate problem, it’s going to be a massive run-around to ever get it dealt with. To me, that’s a willing sacrifice in the name of saving money.

We’re talking about a situation where a business accepted money, screwed up on their end which doubled their shipping costs and then told the customer they’d have to pay for the mistake. That’s literally stealing. You give me something with the clear understanding you get something in return and I don’t deliver means I stole your money.

The response to theft should be outrage, not fear of that company trying to ban you because you exposed them for stealing. The reason why they don’t care and expect you to just write it off is because too many people have done just that in the past.

Where does this submission end? $2 is fine so $4 still isn’t worth it quickly becomes anything under $10 is no big deal… see the progression here?

The single most important detail is profit margins: just because it only cost $2 doesn’t mean GB deserves to steal $2. That would earn GB roughly $8 worth of sales considering they probably make around 25% on that $2 sale so $0.50. They’re laughing all the way to the bank and plowing hundreds of these “not worth fighting them over it” 100% profit transactions into their bottom line every month. That’s why it’s worth the fight, not because of whatever you ordered, but to smack GB upside the head for thinking this is acceptable

mattadores · 2019-03-22T16:39:09.000Z

Here’s you best reference: Paypal makes lots of money and people/businesses are willing to pay them because they offer amazing service.

Considering Paypal is willing to accept your dispute over something as simple as $2 shows you there’s a need for that service because the world is simply that corrupt.

Kalihi · 2019-03-22T17:03:03.000Z

Thanks for all the comments.

For now, I’m still trying to see if I can get GB CS to just give me a full refund before I resort to the PayPal reversal.

Muto · 2019-03-22T18:38:27.000Z

mattadores:

Muto:

WalkIntoTheLight:

I know this will be contrary advice that most people give, but IMO don’t bother. It’s only $2, and not worth your time and hassle and potentially a bad-mark on your Paypal account. Save the disputes for items that are worth something.

We all know GB can have bad customer service. It’s no different than most Chinese retailers, and most retailers from any place in the world. Buying cheap crap and paying almost nothing for it means you’re not going to get good service.

Over the long-run, even with some small losses, it’s still cheaper to buy stuff from China. Just accept that, and eat the $2 loss. Leave a crappy review if it bothers you, though they’ll probably just delete it.

Have to agree with this logic and the fact that you do not want to get banned from Gearbest over $2 as they will have something you want for a killer price in the future.
Yes, you could make another account with slightly different spelling and address I suppose.

Can’t get a hamburger and drink for $2 anymore.
Still sucks but also makes you figure any thing under $5 is a gamble as to whether it shows up or not from half way around the world.

One thing that may still work, ask them if they will include the product in with the next order as they will already be shipping an item?
Thanks and good luck with what ever you decide.

Keith

I get your logic but can’t believe how much power you’re willing to give a business in the name of a good deal. I forgo customer service when I deal with these Chinese online superstores with the understanding that if I ever have a legitimate problem, it’s going to be a massive run-around to ever get it dealt with. To me, that’s a willing sacrifice in the name of saving money.

We’re talking about a situation where a business accepted money, screwed up on their end which doubled their shipping costs and then told the customer they’d have to pay for the mistake. That’s literally stealing. You give me something with the clear understanding you get something in return and I don’t deliver means I stole your money.

The response to theft should be outrage, not fear of that company trying to ban you because you exposed them for stealing. The reason why they don’t care and expect you to just write it off is because too many people have done just that in the past.

Where does this submission end? $2 is fine so $4 still isn’t worth it quickly becomes anything under $10 is no big deal… see the progression here?

The single most important detail is profit margins: just because it only cost $2 doesn’t mean GB deserves to steal $2. That would earn GB roughly $8 worth of sales considering they probably make around 25% on that $2 sale so $0.50. They’re laughing all the way to the bank and plowing hundreds of these “not worth fighting them over it” 100% profit transactions into their bottom line every month. That’s why it’s worth the fight, not because of whatever you ordered, but to smack GB upside the head for thinking this is acceptable

Bottom Line for me, I am too damn old to get jacked up over a lousy $2. And no I not a rich man, just choosy over what will rile me anymore.
I paid $1.75 yesterday to get freaking air at a Turkey Hill convenience store in the pouring rain, rip off for sure, but guess what?
I needed air in my front tire because I picked up a screw so it saved me a tire from not riding it on the rim. So it was worth it. Got to the tire store and they fixed it.
Now, all the stress and back and forth with Paypal for $2?
All while trying to control high blood pressure.
NO

You want to save the world from $2 scammers, have at it my friend.

To answer your question when does it become too much?
Yeah $10 would get my goat up but really I haven’t been scammed from the chinaman and am still amazed that they can sell things that actually do work for such a low price.
Enough from me on this, have at it.
Peace Out.

Keith

mattadores · 2019-03-22T21:31:17.000Z

Muto:

mattadores:

Muto:

WalkIntoTheLight:

I know this will be contrary advice that most people give, but IMO don’t bother. It’s only $2, and not worth your time and hassle and potentially a bad-mark on your Paypal account. Save the disputes for items that are worth something.

We all know GB can have bad customer service. It’s no different than most Chinese retailers, and most retailers from any place in the world. Buying cheap crap and paying almost nothing for it means you’re not going to get good service.

Over the long-run, even with some small losses, it’s still cheaper to buy stuff from China. Just accept that, and eat the $2 loss. Leave a crappy review if it bothers you, though they’ll probably just delete it.

Have to agree with this logic and the fact that you do not want to get banned from Gearbest over $2 as they will have something you want for a killer price in the future.
Yes, you could make another account with slightly different spelling and address I suppose.

Can’t get a hamburger and drink for $2 anymore.
Still sucks but also makes you figure any thing under $5 is a gamble as to whether it shows up or not from half way around the world.

One thing that may still work, ask them if they will include the product in with the next order as they will already be shipping an item?
Thanks and good luck with what ever you decide.

Keith

I get your logic but can’t believe how much power you’re willing to give a business in the name of a good deal. I forgo customer service when I deal with these Chinese online superstores with the understanding that if I ever have a legitimate problem, it’s going to be a massive run-around to ever get it dealt with. To me, that’s a willing sacrifice in the name of saving money.

We’re talking about a situation where a business accepted money, screwed up on their end which doubled their shipping costs and then told the customer they’d have to pay for the mistake. That’s literally stealing. You give me something with the clear understanding you get something in return and I don’t deliver means I stole your money.

The response to theft should be outrage, not fear of that company trying to ban you because you exposed them for stealing. The reason why they don’t care and expect you to just write it off is because too many people have done just that in the past.

Where does this submission end? $2 is fine so $4 still isn’t worth it quickly becomes anything under $10 is no big deal… see the progression here?

The single most important detail is profit margins: just because it only cost $2 doesn’t mean GB deserves to steal $2. That would earn GB roughly $8 worth of sales considering they probably make around 25% on that $2 sale so $0.50. They’re laughing all the way to the bank and plowing hundreds of these “not worth fighting them over it” 100% profit transactions into their bottom line every month. That’s why it’s worth the fight, not because of whatever you ordered, but to smack GB upside the head for thinking this is acceptable

Bottom Line for me, I am too damn old to get jacked up over a lousy $2. And no I not a rich man, just choosy over what will rile me anymore.
I paid $1.75 yesterday to get freaking air at a Turkey Hill convenience store in the pouring rain, rip off for sure, but guess what?
I needed air in my front tire because I picked up a screw so it saved me a tire from not riding it on the rim. So it was worth it. Got to the tire store and they fixed it.
Now, all the stress and back and forth with Paypal for $2?
All while trying to control high blood pressure.
NO

You want to save the world from $2 scammers, have at it my friend.

To answer your question when does it become too much?
Yeah $10 would get my goat up but really I haven’t been scammed from the chinaman and am still amazed that they can sell things that actually do work for such a low price.
Enough from me on this, have at it.
Peace Out.

Keith

lol yes I agree very much on picking your battles and you’ve clearly identified your limits. lol fighting the chinaman over $2 does seem rather comical when you consider what that’s worth to us here in NA.

lol I like your response a lot. It’s like a wise experienced response full of comedic relief telling the whipper snappers of the world how useless battling $2 stealing Chinaman is or trying to get your neighbor to switch to an electric lawnmower.

I don’t normally get riled up over $2 but sometimes the tactics the Chinese companies use just get me goin

TBH it’s easy for me to rant and if I was the one in the situation my reaction would most likely have to do with my mood in the moment.

Kalihi · 2019-03-23T07:54:19.000Z

Well, that took only a day to resolve. Gearbest agreed to re-ship the item once I mentioned filing a PayPal dispute.

The conversation is copied below if anyone is interested.
…
…
…

Kalihi:
Thank you for your message.

When I paid for the product, Gearbest and I entered into a bona-fide contract for Gearbest to deliver the product to me at the agreed-upon price. If Gearbest is unable to fulfill that contract by delivering the product with no additional money from me, I will accept a full refund (not a refund minus the return shipping cost).

Thanks,
Kalihi

…
…
…

Gearbest Customer Support:
Dear Kalihi,

We are extremely sorry to inform that the package has been returned to us successfully.
Your goods are back in our warehouse.
We regret that the issue has occurred and are fully committed to resolving it to your satisfaction.
The shipping cost is 0.33USD,which is charged by the carrier not us.It is out of our control.Hope you may understand us.
I have reviewed your order in detail.
As a proof of good will we can offer 2 solutions to resolve the issue:

Refund 1USD on your wallet
Refund on your Wallet (store credit) and exceptionally reward you with extra points [more stuff omitted]
2)Refund 1USD on your original account [more stuff omitted]
Please kindly confirm we will go ahead with the refund.
Once again we are sorry for this situation.
We look forward to hearing you soon.
Thank you for your cooperation.Thank you again for bringing these matters to our attention.

Best regards.
Lila
Gearbest Customer Service

…
…
…

Kalihi:
Hello Lila,

I will need either the product re-sent at no additional cost, or a full refund. Otherwise, I will be forced to file a PayPal dispute on the transaction.

Best,
Kalihi

…
…
…

Gearbest Customer Support:
Dear Kalihi,

Thank you for your reply.
We sincerely apologize for this issue.
I have reviewed your order in detail.

Since you are valuable customer for us we can resend a new parcel with the same item with another shipping method to you.
This package will be received within 10-25 business days（due to peak season).
In order to stop the more inconvenience, please reconfirm the exact shipping address as follows: [address removed]
Can you please confirm whether I can go ahead with this reshipment?
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thank you for your collaboration.

teacher · 2019-03-23T09:43:13.000Z

.

DmK · 2019-03-23T11:18:20.000Z

So, as everybody can see from conversation above, this is not customer support, this is shop support!

CREEXHP70LED · 2019-06-01T21:27:18.000Z

It sure would be easy for them to say they shipped something that was only $2 USD and never ship it, and just keep the $2 USD.

Rexlion · 2019-06-02T01:21:30.000Z

They finally agreed to do what they should have done in the first place (assuming they want customers to respect them). I thought the Chinese were really big on saving face? Perhaps the CS person who responded initially was poorly trained, and it was only their ill-considered action that made GB look like they would rather save a few pennies than their image.

Blackbeard · 2019-06-02T01:23:32.000Z

WalkIntoTheLight:

I know this will be contrary advice that most people give, but IMO don’t bother. It’s only $2, and not worth your time and hassle and potentially a bad-mark on your Paypal account. Save the disputes for items that are worth something.

We all know GB can have bad customer service. It’s no different than most Chinese retailers, and most retailers from any place in the world. Buying cheap crap and paying almost nothing for it means you’re not going to get good service.

Over the long-run, even with some small losses, it’s still cheaper to buy stuff from China. Just accept that, and eat the $2 loss. Leave a crappy review if it bothers you, though they’ll probably just delete it.

Yeah if you have too many disputes they send obnoxious automated email to you saying if it keeps happening you might get suspended from being able to do it or something to that effect, I forget how it was worded, but for $2 doesn’t really pay, maybe just take their credit offer. For them to want to charge you to reship is really poor policy tho, sometimes they just don’t care about the customer.

Lightbringer · 2019-06-02T05:26:11.000Z

Wellp, dunno why people were inserting emotion into the dispute process, like it “get someone’s goat” and whatnot. You don’t have to get emotional to just yank their strings and get back what you’re owed.

Once I bought a bunch of 30Qs and put in the order without checking the shipping amount. It was something like cells 20.57, after shipping 23.88, not bad, just a few bux for shipping… or so I thought. Uhhh, no, it was shipping an extra 23.88, more than doubling the price!

And to add insult to injury, the cells never made it. Oh, I was expecting it at work, where the receptionist was always there or at least someone to sign for the package. Yet it was marked as “delivered”, no one remembers signing for anything, and there was no signature or anything given (even on Amazon, you’ll see “signed for by: Eric” or somesuch).

And what was odd, it was the only time ever — not before nor since — where I got a separate email from GB asking if I received the cells. Curiouser and curiouser.

Wellp, for sure if I got raped on shipping, I damned well BETTER receive the cells, so I contacted them and told them that I didn’t received them. “But they’re marked as delivered.” “Don’t care, I never received them.” “Can you check at your Post Office?” And around and around…

It got irritating with all the stubborn back’n’forth, the time-wasting, them trying to just wear me down so I’d go away, but I didn’t give up. It was almost a game at this point, like being in a staring contest and seeing who’d blink first.

Wellp, they were pointing fingers at the carrier, trying to make me go hound them instead, file a claim with them (and prove… what?), and I’m sure the carrier would point the finger back at GB, and meanwhile I’d be without the bux and without the cells.

I was offered new cells but I’d pay shipping (ha!), or new cells and shipping and we’d split the cost, in both cases I’d be expected to lay out an extra 20bux+. Nuh-uh. No way.

Finally, the solution was simple. “Okay, I’m done. I’m just going to have the CC chargeback the items and get my bux back, and then you and the carrier can duke it out to see who wins.”

Guess what? I got a full refund.

I couldda saved so much time by just playing the first round or two, and then go nuclear. But that’s often the solution, just letting the CC, PP, whatever, do the chargeback. Make the offer first to let them make good on it on their own, but if not, let them know unambiguously that’s exactly what you’ll do.

Methinks most CS reps are programmed to just read from a script. Apologise and advise you to wait. Offer a fraction of the value. Offer slightly more in “points”. Wear down, wear down, wear down, keep going acto the script, wear down some more, rise, repeat. Maybe they get incentives for how much less-than-value they save the company, and/or “punished” for having to concede completely. Either way, it’s institutionalised.

So… don’t get worked up. Just play the game as long as it’s still amusing, then when you grow bored, go nuclear and be done with it.