PG&E Planning Widespread Power Outages in the San Francisco Bay Area

KeepingItLight · 2019-10-24T07:17:27.000Z

Lightbringer:

Actually, for-profit utilities are probably the best solution. If governmentally run, you know service will suck, costs will rise, and you’ll simply have no choice due to the monopoly granted to it. Ie, “Don’t like it? Where else you gonna go? Haha!”. (Anyone who lives where a cableco was granted a monopoly knows this full-well.)

Anyone ever been to any government agency (DMV, Labor, etc.), like, ever? People there literally work in slow-motion that you think you’re caught up in a time-dilation bubble or something. If any government agency went private, it’d be put out of business within a year. Monopoly power, a captive audience, and backing by government force is the Perfect Storm of sloth.

I have always thought the DMV was the best example of what things were like in the former USSR. Long lines, and none of the workers give a whit. Heck, they couldn't change things even if they wanted to.

Lightbringer:

Becoming a utility is simply about liability, so that in case some kid sticks a fork into an outlet and fries himself, the utility can’t be sued for supplying a “dangerous product”. It’s shielded from (most) liability in exchange for operating “for the public good”.

They still have to get permission to raise prices, etc., so they’re not run like a pharmco which could arbitrarily raise the price of its products (Shkreli, anyone?). So if anything, they have to do maintenance, upgrades, etc., only with the bux they’re allowed to collect. Kinda like a landlord who can’t raise rents at-will but still needs to maintain and keep up the building even with destructive tenants, ever-increasing taxes, and so on.

If PG&E has been “neglecting” anything, they should be able to show their books as to what they’re spending their bux on, and people should be able to have a look and see for themselves. In fact, people would have a right to see their finances.

The conflict is, for good or ill, that management has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders and stakeholders. That means, specifically, maximise profits and disburse to the s/s as a reward for investing in the company. Unless there’s an obligation to spend on X, they can’t.

So… anyone out there want to subpoena their books and see whether/not they’ve been slacking off for real? Politicians love to want to appear as Champions Of The People and hurl insults at any perceived badguy, so let one of them take up the mantle. As far as PG&E, either clear them or condemn them. :laughing:

I don't agree with all of this. For most of my adult life, the CPUC (California Public Utilities Commision) has been a "rubber-stamp" operation for utilities like PG&E. If PG&E had wanted to set aside money for tree-trimming and other maintenance, it would have been easy to get the CPUC's approval. Fact is, that was not a priority for PG&E. I'm not even sure such approval was required.

A similar lack of interest on the part of PG&E in maintaining its infrastructure was revealed in the aftermath of the horrific 2010 natural-gas explosion in San Bruno, California. A PG&E owned gas-main—30-inches in diameter—exploded, killing 8 people and burning down 38 homes. Among the other tidbits you'll find in the Wikipedia article on the topic, you'll find this: "On January 13, 2012, an independent audit from the State of California issued a report stating that PG&E had illegally diverted over $100 million from a fund used for safety operations, and instead used it for executive compensation and bonuses."

Of course, being the suspicious fellow that I am, I can't say I'm convinced that a publicly-owned utility would be immune to similar sorts of corruption. Or, for that matter, to other wonderfully inventive corrupt schemes.

As I said before, I'm of two minds on the public/private question.

Lightbringer · 2019-10-24T13:21:56.000Z

Where there’s corruption, though, people have to get motivated to prosecute, convict, and jail those responsible. That means going after the CPUC, then. Grab some pollies by the throat and make them do it, and don’t let up on them.

KeepingItLight · 2019-10-24T14:55:53.000Z

Unfortunately, this is where my lack of expertise shows up. I didn't know about the $100 million diversion until last night. I don't have a clue whether PG&E was held accountable for it or not. It is probably true, however, that the 2010 explosion began a period of increased scrutiny of PG&E on the part of its regulators. It's been a rough decade for PG&E. So far as I can recall, though, no one has gone to jail.

Couchmaster · 2019-10-24T15:06:43.000Z

Changing the topic to keeping my lights on.

chinooker:

I have a Goal Zero Yeti 1000 rated for 1500W continuous/3000W surge for that and their 100W solar panel.

You sound prepared! Anyone have any tips for a solid solar panel to power up the Rockpals. I just bought Fins 60watt cheapo discount Banggood version which I won’t see for a while, but thinking of a second one.

grin · 2019-10-24T19:18:48.000Z

Lightbringer:

Where there’s corruption, though, people have to get motivated to prosecute, convict, and jail those responsible. That means going after the CPUC, then. Grab some pollies by the throat and make them do it, and don’t let up on them.

Problem is the people who can do something about are the ones benefitting from it. To a certain extent even me. The money that should have been used on maintenance is being shown as profit. Only way to do anything is get rid of the old and bring in the new. But then it will start all over again.

grin · 2019-10-24T19:22:14.000Z

Couchmaster:

Changing the topic to keeping my lights on.

chinooker:

I have a Goal Zero Yeti 1000 rated for 1500W continuous/3000W surge for that and their 100W solar panel.

You sound prepared! Anyone have any tips for a solid solar panel to power up the Rockpals. I just bought Fins 60watt cheapo discount Banggood version which I won’t see for a while, but thinking of a second one.

Emergency lighting has battery back up built in. Would it be better to have battery backup in home lighting that is only charged when needed than to have one big battery?

Lightbringer · 2019-10-24T20:26:42.000Z

grin:

Problem is the people who can do something about are the ones benefitting from it. To a certain extent even me. The money that should have been used on maintenance is being shown as profit. Only way to do anything is get rid of the old and bring in the new. But then it will start all over again.

Yaaaaaay, government.

deleted-200707 · 2019-10-24T20:28:07.000Z

with all our flashlights, lighting is not the big priority, medical devices and frig/freezers are

kuoh · 2019-10-24T21:59:32.000Z

Emergency lighting provide short term lighting and the cheaper ones typically use a standard lead acid batter that has to be replaced every couple of years anyway. They also don’t have on/off switches so will waste power. A battery with inverter is much more flexible for power delivery and allows you to conserve power when not needed.

KuoH

grin:

Emergency lighting has battery back up built in. Would it be better to have battery backup in home lighting that is only charged when needed than to have one big battery?

grin · 2019-10-24T22:26:00.000Z

Lightbringer:

grin:

Problem is the people who can do something about are the ones benefitting from it. To a certain extent even me. The money that should have been used on maintenance is being shown as profit. Only way to do anything is get rid of the old and bring in the new. But then it will start all over again.

Yaaaaaay, government.

Government filled the coal stack then sold it. the new company burnt all the coal then said to the government unless you pay for the fuel we cant run the generator. So the taxpayer pays higher power prices and subsidies the fuel for a private company. It is great setup.

Lightbringer · 2019-10-24T22:53:20.000Z

Who writes up those contracts, then?

Officers of a corporation can be held liable in some cases. If fraud was evident, gov could’ve gone after those officers.

Same like “cost overruns” when contractors are selected to design/build the next submarine, fighter jet, a/c carrier, etc. They bid with a lowball price, get the contract, then charge endlessly well in excess of that price. Hold ’em to it, or else!

Muto · 2019-10-25T01:00:05.000Z

KeepingItLight:

Unfortunately, this is where my lack of expertise shows up. I didn’t know about the $100 million diversion until last night. I don’t have a clue whether PG&E was held accountable for it or not. It is probably true, however, that the 2010 explosion began a period of increased scrutiny of PG&E on the part of its regulators. It’s been a rough decade for PG&E. So far as I can recall, though, no one has gone to jail.

No one went to jail over the attacks of 9/11 either, just sayin’

People were held accountable for Pearl Harbor, but now no one is held accountable on these grand events.
Land of the Free, etc.

Back on topic, If you live in California a generator/backup power supply should be on your Christmas list.
Doesn’t sound like it is going to get any better soon.

grin · 2019-10-25T02:00:00.000Z

Lightbringer:

Who writes up those contracts, then?

Officers of a corporation can be held liable in some cases. If fraud was evident, gov could’ve gone after those officers.

Same like “cost overruns” when contractors are selected to design/build the next submarine, fighter jet, a/c carrier, etc. They bid with a lowball price, get the contract, then charge endlessly well in excess of that price. Hold ’em to it, or else!

There are rorts that are not illegal happens all the time here. nobody else gives a so no point me worrying about it.

KeepingItLight · 2019-10-25T03:04:50.000Z

Muto:

Back on topic, If you live in California a generator/backup power supply should be on your Christmas list.

Yes! This is probably the best approach for regular folks like me. No point in fretting about it. Just take care of yourself as best you can.

Muto:

Doesn’t sound like it is going to get any better soon.

It was shocking to hear the CEO of PG&E say we may be in for 10 more years of this!

From NPR:

"The CEO of Pacific Gas & Electric Corp. told California energy regulators that the state will likely see blackouts for another 10 years like the one imposed last week that left as many as 800,000 customers without power.

"The revelation by corporation CEO Bill Johnson came Friday at a California Public Utilities Commission meeting at which he said his company is trying to reduce the chances of wildfires by trimming more trees and using technology to target smaller areas of the grid when fire dangers require power outages."

Source: https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771486828/california-can-expect-blackouts-for-a-decade-says-pg-e-ceo

djmcconn · 2019-10-25T20:51:45.000Z

Starting to smell like an extortion waning, isn’t it? We were stupid for years so now you people suck it up. I’m sure rate increases or a bailout of some sort will help. A question- Does this smell Enronny?

grin · 2019-10-25T21:11:32.000Z

This is the path Australia is taking. Looks like i need to get moving on my own power plant. i have a silenced 25kva diesel genset, 1kw solar panels all i need is a battery and inverter. With the increases in power prices it will probably save me coin.

snakebite · 2019-10-25T22:55:30.000Z

it would be nice if this motivates a bunch of folks to install battery backed solar and standby generators.
and this removed the need for these crooks.
come get your meter before i pitch it in the trash.

BlueSwordM · 2019-10-26T01:50:43.000Z

TBH, PG&E has done this before, and they should be punished harshly, so next time, they’ll invest in better lines rather than giving their executives huge bonuses.

This makes me want to become even more energy efficient.

Couchmaster · 2019-10-27T02:03:32.000Z

Unfortunately, ^ their actions are contributing significantly to increased CO2 emissions. Everybody and their dog will now be running primarily gas fired generators which have no emission control.

BlueSwordM · 2019-10-27T02:12:57.000Z

Well, isn’t that nice?

Negative feedback loop:

Fires caused by PG&E and global warming > Shuts down power because they can’t take care of their infrastructure > People use more fossil fuel powered appliances > Worsens temperatures > Cycle continues

Anyway, would you guys like to start a solar panel + battery power GB?

Maybe I should start building 2kWh battery boxes with USB ports(USB-A 2,4A, USB PD 3.0), a 12V cigarette plug, a 3,3-36V high power buck converter, and 48VDC power output to an inverter.

Would actually be pretty nice bundled with a 500-600W solar panel setup.

Won’t be powering your electric car anytime soon, but should give you at least a vacuum, a fan, and if built with 2C+ capable cells, around 15 minutes of continuous max power AC use.

Maybe I should do that indeed…