Potted vs upotted electronics

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

Hello everyone,

I’m looking for a headlamp able to be used in alpine environment (winter alpinism with sub 0ºC temperatures, skiing, caving, etc). So, for this use, apart from IPX rating and tint/beam pattern, is very very important to have a reliable flashlight (I always carry a 14500/AA spare headlamp just in case).

Now the thing is, do potted flashlights really have much more durability? I’m on a tight budget so was considering something from sofirn or convoy, but have recently read some QC issues from convoy and don’t want the headlamp to fail when I’m over 3000m height.

If it is better for reliablity, which brands do pot their electronics apart from Armytek and Zebra? (I’m in Europe, so Zebralight is not an option for me).

2

Usually they do potting for huge intuctor. As well you have to avoid multi pcb design drivers that are widely used in cheap lights like Sofirn, Wukkos and others. For moisture protection there are simillar technique conformal coating. You can apply some nail polish for that reason on any driver.
Probably good option is to choose headlamp with light module where all components including led are on single mpcb. and light with external power supply to keep batt in warm to ptotect from sub zero temperatures.
BTW Skilhunt have potted drivers too.

3

Potted lights are typically mounted on machine guns and have to endure massive vibration.

Of course that is not the only application but potting is meant for the harshest environments.

If you make this a requirement, you significantly limit your choices. Not to mention typically the most expensive lights are potted (Malkoff, Elzetta, Modlite.)

1 Thank
4

Thank you.

Is skilhunt at the same level as Armytek or Zebra? I mean, are its electronics as efficient and high quality? Realiability for me is quite important in the mountains.

5

Potting makes a light drop proof. Zebras and Armytek are potted.

Since you are in Europe, to buy a Zebralight you could buy from Bob_McBob (he is in Canada), or you may choose to buy an Armytek, but see the caution below about its tailmagnet and the risk of using a Compass.

Cold weather Batteries:
The most reliable batteries for below freezing temperatures, are not rechargeable Lithium Ion 18650 nor 14500.

Non rechargeable Lithium, called Lithium Primaries, have the best cold weather performance. Examples of non rechargeable Lithium primaries include CR123a or the same non rechargeable Lithium chemistry in AA, called Lithium Iron (not Lithium Ion)

AA Eneloop is also more cold tolerant than 14500 Lithium Ion. So for best performance from you backup 14500 light, do not rely on 14500, instead use AA Lithium Iron non rechargeable Primaries, or Eneloop.

Armytek is a potted light, so it is drop proof. And they offer a light that can use 2x CR123a. That would be the most reliable Cold weather battery option, in a drop proof light.

Consider the Armytek Wizard C2 Pro Nichia, because it can use 18650 LiIon, and if that battery fails due to being too cold, you can replace the 18650 Lithium Ion rechargeable with with 2 Lithium Iron non rechargeable Primaries.

Armytek claims their 18650 light is good down to -25C. Suggest you carry several Brand New CR123a as backups. Bear in mind that dual batteries must have the same charge level, dont mix a partly used CR123a with a fresh CR123a.

Zebralight does not offer a CR123a light, they do offer an AA light (that can not use 14500 Lithiium Ion).

Magnets are bad if you use a compass:
One problem to be aware of, is that Armytek lights have magnetic tails. It would be bad to be wearing an Armytek headlamp, while raising a compass to eye level to take a compass reading, because the magnetic tail in the light, could interfere with the compass needle pointing to magnetic north.

That is why a Zebralight is superior to an Armytek. Zebras have no magnets that could interfere with a Compass. That is why Zebras are preferred over Armytek, by cavers.

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6

If you are really worried about batteries you can search for cold weather 18650 or low temperature 18650. Most high quality 18650 are going to work way below 0c unless you’re trying to go straight to turbo from off. You’re going to get voltage sag out of any of them. Start with batteries that are rated for at least 10 amps or more.

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All things can get broken. You say you are on budget, so H04 It is the best you can get for 40$. Electronics and efficiency is similar. Plus H04 are quite easy serviceable - repairable . Convoy H1 host build like tank, but have non standart small optics and kind off primitive driver. But again cost half of H04.

8

Thank you all.

The lowest I’ve been has been -20ºC, but the average would say are -10ºC during early morning (night) approaches. Sometimes I need a bit more lumens than an AA flashlight can give me in turbo, that’s why I’m looking for one.

I’ll take a look to cold weather rated batteries.

The potting requirement is due to possible impacts while climbing in ice/snow. I wear my headlamp in the climbing helmet and, during ice and snow climbing is usual to to throw pieces of it (appart from possible falls from the helmet or hands).

9

Necroish post, but my Armytek wizard pro V3 suffers button inoperability with extended exposed usage in temps below 24F. Potting is great for impact, but is kind of pointless if the switch doesn’t function in that basic level of cold…

**Function does return to mormal after warming up though.

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10

Potting is not a warranty extension, nor is it an extended guarantee. Its simply a way to make electronics less susceptible to vibration.

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That’s like saying my gun functions fine except for the trigger.

12

No its not.

Its a way if making it less susceptible to vibration. Thats all it means.

If the LED fails its because the LED failed.

Take a $250, 000 Mercedes. Superb German quality. Does not mean every part in it will last forever.

Everything has a beginning and an end.

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13

Is that at all lumen levels or only when you’re trying to do the highest turbo? I don’t recall that problem but I don’t still have any of the v3 models with the smaller switch other than a tiara. I’m going to put a few different models in the freezer and test them tomorrow.

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14

The switch doesn’t fail, it fails to operate well within the given parameters. I believe Armytek was rating their switches to -23C or something, and 23F is around -4C.

If a firearm is rated to 10,000 rounds, that means EACH qnd EVERY part, the entirety of the weapon, is rated to function for at least that many rounds.

If a flashlight is rated to -20C, EVERY component besides the battery is rated to function to -20C. An item is only as weak as its weakest component, which is why some manufacturers opt for component warranties vs. complete warranties, particularly in boutiques.

*In short, if a flashlight is potted for impact, AND it is rated for sub freezing temperatures, if ANY of the components fail to meet EITHER of those set standards, then the entirety of the flashlight is subject to warranty and reasonable expectation of use.

15

Potting is done on the LED part of the electronics. Its supposed to help in a high vibration environment such as mounted on a machine gun.

If the switch failed in a low temperature situation, assuming you can prove that, you cannot blame the potting.

I think Armytek needs to own up to a poorly designed switch, especially if it fails in a temperature range its supposed to operate in.

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16

Things like these usually are MTTF or MTBF, so not quite.

If it is sold with an included battery, even that. Specs like these must be met. Period.

Yeah, whatever it is, it is not due to or despite the potting IMO. Failed switch or MCU that bugs at low temps, probably.

Should be covered by warranty.

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17

All levels, when I unscrewed the tailcap to reset rhe light, it did not turn back on until it warmed up, lol.

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Did you try it with a warm(er) battery? Perhaps it’s the combination of cold battery and switch that’s the issue. It shouldn’t matter but was the battery supplied by Armytek?

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19

When I got home, that’s the first thing I tried. I was using a keeppower 18650, and swapped to an EVVA cell, but no dice. The cell was working fine, as it continued to supply power even as the switch was inoperable, and putting it into another 18650 light powered it up with no issue. After a little while when the light warmed up, the switch was working without issue.

I tested it a few times, so I figured I just got a lemon. Just so it doesn’t go over anyone’s heads, i had only wanted to mention that potting isn’t a fixall to inoperability, as a shock-proof assembly doesn’t necessarily mean that it is everything proof; my anecdotal experiene with my particular armytek is just an example of such.

20

Just to be safe, i would take the cell out, lol…test the light, not the cell…