Q: Do you think a 350 mA XML or XML2 is too much power in a light for a 3 year old kid?

Off-topic Chatter
1

I was thinking of making a single 350 chip Nanjg light for my 3 year old. He is constantly enquiring about my flashlights.

He has had a 2*AA light with a single strawhat led in it instead of the original bulb. He had that for more than half a year already and has been taught not to point a people or animals faces and to not look into the light. And he abides by that.

BUT: He is three years old. Sh!t happens all the time at that age. And I have no idea what to expect from a 350 mA xml as far as brightness goes. I mean I can read the chart as to approximately how many lumens but put that in a P60 host and that looks like... I simply dunno yet.

Opinions and ideas are welcome. Thanks :-)

2

My 5 year old has an old minimag incan…shines that thing in his eyes all the time. I would never give a toddler anything more powerful…especially an XM-L2!!! That thing could seriously blind him. Get a weak incan from Walmart if you dont have an old one lying around.

I tell my kids to not do things all the time. And they listen. But sometimes they dont.

3

get him the 3W police light, 10 lumens if that and completely disposable, the battery is worth far more then the light so he can lose it, bang it up, and its bright enough for a dark room but is unlikely to damage eyes

4

C8 mini 30 lumens :slight_smile:

5

I have one of the MDXL 2 x AAA lights that was for $0.01, which I guess is suppose to be 15 lumens(?), and I saw your post/question, so I STUPIDLY just tried looking at it when it was turned on :(!

I have no way to verify it if is 15 lumens or not, but I’m seeing spots right now :(…

6

I think it is not safe even when it is 1 lumen if you continuously look closely into the led.
Vision will recover after a few minutes, or seems to recover. But there will be some damage to the light sensitive cells which may or may not affect your vision when you are with age.
When my two year old plays my lights, I will watch and make sure she does not look into the beam, even it is the lowest level of ZL SC600.

7

One thing that might lower the risk is using a flood TIR of some kind. Spreading out the intensity of the beam lowers the chances of getting hurt from accidentally looking.

150 lumens is a lot though. 350mA XML/XML2 is about 150 lumens. There are some adults that I wouldn’t trust with that amount of power. But it really depends on the kid and it depends on the level of supervision.

8

i like the TIR idea, you could also go with a zoomie very under driven, but in the world of flashlights supervision won’t help much, it takes less then a fraction of a second it look into a light.

9

I think the Police light is a good idea—I wouldn’t want a zoomie cause in zoomed that could be a lot of lumens in someones eyes. Something non-lithium is probably a very good idea for a first light!

If you have something a little more powerful that you’re worried about, you could put DC-Fix diffusing film on the inside of the lens to reduce lumen output (and increase flood) at the same time.

This would be a good time to show him light safety too, so if the hobby continues and he plays with bigger lights, he can’t do anything dangerous. Maybe not the best time of his life to lecture him on the intricacies of charging lithium ion batteries, but if you tell him not to look in the front of the light or ever point it in someones eyes, that’s already got him a step above most!

10

use diffuse foil on the Inside of the lens to avoid that he sees the tiny “hotspot”

11

I would give it to him. I don’t think he can do much damage with a 350 ma. XM-L. After all, he goes outdoors where the sun is vastly brighter and more dangerous. 350 ma. will adjust one’s eyes to bright light so one can’t see well in a dimly lit room for a while, but it won’t do any harm. If you agree with the others that that is too much, how about a red light. That has the least effect on the eyes and is catchy.

12

Keep them coming.

Fyi: I'm looking into getting the AMC7350's little known little brother. A 140 mA chip :-)

And I like the idea of floody tir and diffuser film. Or maybe a zoomie where the focus mechanism stops halfway to spot?

And I´ve had him in boot camp for a long time with these light things. For instance he used his mothers Tank E09 a while a go to lead us all home from visiting a neighbor. 900 meters of pitch dark country backroads complete with potholes and ditches on the sides. The light on high and him with his mother in one hand and the light in the other, marching us home :-) His father had a hard time not wielding his little Eye10 to assist but used the opportunity to make him perform a task and be important and depended on. (Yes I can show restraint when it comes to light - at least sometimes). Turns out he liked it so much that he did not want to go inside once we were home. LOL. ...But I digress. What I wanted to tell you is that only once did he shine the light in my face and that was kind of accidental. He was unsure where I was as I was trailing a little behind and he looked for me.

But do keep the suggestions coming. I just want to make him something useful that he will know I made especially for him and which he can use for something he finds fun and interesting.

13

At close distance (poking their own eye with the flashlight as kids do all the time) even a TIR won’t make a difference. But if you want to diffuse the beam go the simpler route: just remove reflector, and turn the flashlight into a “mule” kind of light. I would not consider it any safer tho.

14

I agree with Fritz here, just tell him not to look in the beam and not annoy other people by shining in the eyes. The human eye has evolved to withstand looking in the sun for brief moments (=my C8 with dedomed xpg2 at 3A from 1 meter distance), so if he does not force himself looking into the beam, he will be perfectly ok.

That said, that I gave my son (3 1/2) one of those mini C8's with 5mm led, and it is almost perfect for him, plenty light for finding lego-blocks under the couch, and he loves the throw, a real beam that he can point around :-)

15

The reason the sun is so dangerous is that there aren’t any pain or heat nerves in the retina, so we only feel the blinding light, which seems to depend on the total light, not on how bright the brightest spot is.

16

It’s all news at this point. Here’s something recent:

Environ Health Perspect. Mar 2014; 122(3): A81.
Published online Mar 1, 2014. doi: 10.1289/ehp.122-A81

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3948029/

“… some white light-emitting diodes (LEDs) emit a wavelength of light associated with adverse human health effects. In this issue of EHP, researchers study retinal changes in rats exposed to white LEDs like those sometimes used in household lighting…. that employ a chip emitting blue light, which is surrounded by a yellow phosphor coating. Although the resulting light looks white to the naked eye, it can feature a spike in the blue end of the spectrum, at wavelengths of 460–500 nm.

Light of this wavelength has been shown to have unique physiological effects …. recent research considers the direct effect of this light on the eye, including the risk of ongoing damage to retinal cells.8

In the current study, the researchers wanted to accurately simulate exposure to indoor lighting ….”

—— follow the citing papers for more recent work — right side of the page that’s linked to

and from a few years ago:
http://archive.luxmagazine.co.uk/2011/07/are-leds-safe/

“… photochemical hazards are cumulative – the same damage may arise from short duration, high level exposure as long duration, low level exposure.”
…
“… small size causes high retinal irradiance (glare) and the wavelength which has the highest potential to cause damage coincides with the typical peak wavelength of the blue LEDs that pump the phosphor in white PC-LEDs…. the popular cool white LEDs that have a greater potential for damage.

…[with 2010-11-era emitters] It would be necessary to look at the source from a distance of 200mm for 40-50 seconds before reaching [acute short term] exposure limit values.

However, cumulative exposure over eight hours should be considered, and further research should be done into the reported effects of long-term, low-level exposure on age-related macula degeneration.”

This chart shows the blue emission spike, for contemporary cool and warm white LEDs; the green line is the range of wavelengths/intensities within which there’s a hazard. You can see how they line up.
——

Best guess: the damage is cumulative over a lifetime (fishermen who got both skylight and reflected light are a data point for risk of macular degeneration by late middle age)

17

.
Most Cree LEDs have the lowest output at 480nm and near it

18

To be fair, when I was a kid (under 10) I used to stare into the sun all the time. I would stare until I could see the ring around it. Nobody told me not to and I didn’t really know any better. My eyesight is fine now except I can’t see stupid people.

I’m 28

19

Life must be weird not being able to see yourself.

UV and blue light damage is cumulative. Wait til you’re 48.

20

How about an incan maglite solitaire? I loved carrying around one of those when I was little.