I recently took the plunge into a few Li-on lights, batteries, and a charger. It is fun to see the brightness or WOW factor. However, as I consider my real needs or past needs, I have never had a need for lights brighter than I had. Those were mostly C and D cell lights or Mag Light AA. I have purchased a few lights lately including some single AAA and single AA lights. I was pleased to see that my
Quark Mini AA would work on Li-ons, and enjoyed seeing how bright it is. However, now that I have seen that, I don't think of anything I will ever do with it that Eneloops won't be sufficient.
I have always been an outdoors man; hunting, fishing, camping, and just wandering. Except for getting lost a couple of times, I have not needed much of a flashlight. Even when lost for a short time I did not need a high level of brightness, but just to see the trail and surroundings.
For me the new LED lights advantage is small size. I normally carry an iTP A3, and it's output takes care of my requirements. So my own thinking is that I have not needed or do I think I will need more than 100 lumens. I do realize that some professionals, primarily LEOs have needs that dictate bright and long throw lights.
So my question is for what uses do the vast majority of folks find for high brightness lights using Li-on batteries? What do you do with your lights that Eneloops are not sufficient for your real needs? I admit the WOW factor is fun, and that is enough sometimes.
For me it's not an either/or situation. I do use eneloops in most of my lights. However a 18650 light tends to have the option of higher output or longer runtime in a small size. That's the main attraction for me and not excessive output.
For me its mostly the WOW-FUN(!!) factor having ~800 Lumens in the palm of my hand, 60 minutes of run time from ONE 26650 cell. To get these kinds of numbers out of an Eneloop design will require a LOT of cells. I find that to be cumbersome in the field, carrying and reloading multiple eneloops in the dark.
So its mainly WOW-factor lumens without sacrificing convenience.
Cost-wise Eneloops still come out ahead, when you factor in chargers, charge cradles, and a DMM (which I consider MANDATORY for any Li-Io setup).
An 8-pack of eneloops with OEM charger is ~$20 at Costco. You could have a killer trail-setup with a Cyclone C88, and a small 1AA EDC. But then again your'e still packing/storing + reloading extra cells.
The lumens can be handy to really light up an area and is nice to have even if you don't need it much. Li Ion is the best for small lights, lumens wise due to energy density and high 3.7 volts.
I use a Quark MiniX 123 using a rechargable CR123. It is shorter and fatter than the itp A3, but cranks out about 4 times the lumens.
With the invention of low self discharge NiMH, most of the li ion advantages do go away (no battery memory so you can top off any time, self discharge, energy density).
For bigger lights you can simply use multiple smaller batteries and drive a light as much as you want. I mean a mere 3 of my AccuEvolutions 10,000 NiMH LSDs power my 35 Watt TK70!
But I have yet to find a 1xAAA keychain light that can hit over 100 lumens, whereas a guy on candlepowerforums is working on creating a 1xAAA XM-L with a 10440(AAA sized) battery that hits 500!!
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I will say that my TK70 (technically not a li ion light) is really handy around the house! Normally I shine my light ON whatever I want to see. This causes a glarre unless its a flood to throw in flood mode. It also requires a specific angle.
But with my TK70 if I am working behind the TV, i can literally just point my TK70 towards the BACK OF THE WALL propped up. Its so freaking bright that it effectively 'creates' a 200Watt incan. virtual bulb whereever I point. I can then easily see everything behind the TV and work with both hands.
For your EDC needs, perhaps max brightness isnt all that neccessary. Looking for something you dropped nearby, finding a keyhole, looking in the back of the pantry, etc. But if you only carry one light, why not have it capable of illuminating things further away?
I live in a very light polluted area. As a result, there are alot of areas that appear darker than they are. Kinda hard to explain, but the constant change from bright light to dark patch takes a toll on my night vision. So i need a bright light just to walk the dog. And why carry a huge hunking light when i can have one just as bright in a smaller package.
There is no denying the figures you give. However, one does not have to go with Li-on batteries to get light of a 2D light. I am not sure what the output of a 2D light is, but except maybe for throw due to the large reflector, the current 1AA lights give as much light. As I have looked at my single cell AA lights I can see well the house across the street. If there were hazards at that distance I could see with my Quark Mini AA.
My argument, for my use, is not that I can't get more energy from an 18650, but that I do not need that energy for seeing in the dark at distances I find necessary.
I appreciate the responses, and find them interesting. I do not ride bicycles, and if I did probably not at night. However, I am not sure how much distance one needs to see to avoid hazards. It does not take much to be seen.
I live in a very safe, relatively peaceful neighborhood, and every other night I go on a short 3-4 mile jog. The farther away and earlier I can identify a threat, the safer I am from it. Be it a stray dog or one on a long leash (very common), a drunk/stoned SOB looking for trouble, or even a thug looking to jump me. In such a scenario, why wouldn't I carry an 800 Lumen 18650 XML thrower? What would be the practical advantage of my floody 125 Lumen Quark AA? Its smaller, but not that much smaller to offset its lack of range and limited output.
So... it all basically boils down to personal preference.
I use my high-powered lights for walking the dogs at night, especially on forest trails and gravel roads. I have the light on all the time, but on a medium or low output mode. Every now and then I switch it to the highest mode so I can see what's up ahead, and I pan around behind us and to the sides too, just in case. We have bears, coyotes, deer, skunks, and maybe other critters.
I've used a relatively throwy, narrow-beamed light, but found the spot too small, and I've used a floody light, and found it very nice, but just a bit lacking in throw, so my next light will be a good mix of throw and flood.
I've attached a 501b with a XML to the handle of a chainsaw using a bike mount to see while cutting away fallen trees blocking the road.
My Son, Brother and Nephew used their lights while removing the cut limbs and debris. We use them while hunting, fishing and camping. The family has 120 acres in Northern Minnesota,we spend a week there twice a year to hunt / fish. The cabin and lake is 5 miles from where you park. Anything you take, needs to be as lightweight,small & effective as possible. In this case the Li-Ion lights fit the need. There are lots of critters up there and not all are so cute & cuddly. May not really make that much of a difference, but the farther and more I can see at night out there,the better I feel.
If you're happy with the lights you have & they suit you're needs that's fantastic.. Not sure there's a "perfect" flashlight, each individual has different tastes and needs. And it wouldn't be near as much fun, if there was only one.
Mostly used for wow factor. But I like the idea that if and when I really needed such high power output it is there. For example providing light for a large number of people looking for something or someone in a large area.
Since it is now dark I took an old Rayovac 2D, a Kel-lite 3C, a Hugsby P2, a Sipik SK68, Quark Mini AA and maybe another. The C and D lights were using alkalines, and the others Eneloop. I admit I don't have the knowledge to argue technicalities, but do know what I can see.The Rayovac came in at the end of the pack as I shined the lights on a neighbor's shop building about 100 yards away. The Quark MiniAA and the 3C light came in about even. The Hugsby and Sipik were clearly better than the others. I just would not need a brighter light than those.
I am not attempting to tell anyone else what they need, but my own needs do not include a Li-on. I admit that those batteries sure did brighten up the area.:)
I appreciate the responses, and did and do wonder what people do with their lights. I seldom need anything except my iTP A3 to look into dark corners, and If I am out at night there is no problem getting to my car. I am glad to have the capability of the Li-ons whether I need them or not. I will say that if I lived where there were bears and Mt Lions, and there are Mt Lions in this area, and if I were going to be around where I might be attacked I would want a shotgun with the best slugs along with a light. I just would not walk or run there at night. But I may just be a whimp.:)
I hope more will provide uses of their lights with Li-on. Personally I do not know anyone except myself that has such batteries or high powered flashlights. But they are fun, and I think that is the primary reason most are flashaholics.
this reminds me of the thread where someone wanted to be convinced he needed an edc. my take on it was that if he had to be convinced he needed an edc he probably didn't need an edc. i think the same applies here. if you need to be convinced that you need Li-ion's you probably don't need Li-ion's.
for me, at the moment, my main reason for using Li-ions is that i like Xenon flashlights for home/yard use and Li-ion based Xenon flashlights are a lot cheaper and smaller than Eneloop based Xenon flashlights of similar brightness.
