[Review] XTAR 1.5V AAA rechargeable batteries

SammysHP · 2022-12-22T16:00:02.000Z

Limsup:

For the same reason, I think these step-down batteries may be good for med-to-high power applications, but not very good for low power applications, such as clocks and remote controllers. What are your thoughts?

The step-down converter is running all the time. Depending on the load it fires more often. So I’d say it doesn’t matter much if the batteries are used at low power or just sitting on the shelf. Question is, how long will they last if not used at all?

flydiver · 2022-12-22T18:47:00.000Z

Limsup:

I have used li-ion cell step-up voltage to 9V in my IR gun, but the battery lasted way lower than I expected.

I suspected it may be due to combined effects of the following two:

inefficiency in the step-up

parasitic drain of my IR gun.
I thought the drain was small enough, but the battery had to consume power to step-up the voltage causing overall inefficiency.

For the same reason, I think these step-down batteries may be good for med-to-high power applications, but not very good for low power applications, such as clocks and remote controllers. What are your thoughts?

The Lion cell needs to be stepped down to 1.5v. Then you ask that it be stepped up to 9v. I think you are incurring double conversion losses there. Not sure what the amp draw is but due to the step conversion they do heat up and that limits their current output.

They are best if your device has HIGH voltage requirement but only low>med amp needs.
In general they will not compare well at current output to a good NiMh or go the same ‘distance’.
Nor will they do as well for very low output like a clock, assuming you are willing to risk the problems with alkaleaks.

They are useful, but really have a pretty narrow real world niche.
The expense to use ratio is not very good.
I have ~20 of them (AA and AAA), and they really haven’t functionally replaced any NiMh. Trimmers run better/faster, and lights that would otherwise go dimmer stay bright, until > suddenly dead.

I have read reports of satisfied users with the battery powered locks.

Venom · 2022-12-22T22:52:35.000Z

flydiver:

If you DRAIN the battery completely, there is no energy to start a fire.(I don’t suggest throwing it in a fire though to check. :person_facepalming: ) I have not heard of any problem of this sort associated with them.
Charging is a larger potential risk. Then you are putting energy IN. ANY Lion with protection (or not) plus charger that you rely on without any oversight at all has a similar risk associated with using it.
Note - the amount of lithium in a AAA is……tiny……Probably 1tsp of gasoline is more dangerous.

Size should be fine, but I haven’t used this brand. All the other ones I have seem well made and don’t have a fit problem.

FWIW I have a bunch of 9v (2S) PowerUS batteries that have been used HARD for over 10 years and are still working fine. They use a similar circuit. I’ve had one fail. No danger, it became a ‘dud’ and would no longer charge.
I also have a few 9v EBL. They simply aren’t as good (worse capacity and losing it faster), but I don’t consider them more dangerous.

Pretty much use it until the device doesn’t work, then recharge.

Venom · 2022-12-22T22:58:46.000Z

SammysHP:

IF it fails. It’s also possible that the charging circuit won’t work anymore in that case. But this can happen with any device that uses Li-ion batteries.

Can a regular charger get the battery working again? Like the Vapecell S4 Plus.

flydiver · 2022-12-22T23:59:24.000Z

Venom:

SammysHP:

IF it fails. It’s also possible that the charging circuit won’t work anymore in that case. But this can happen with any device that uses Li-ion batteries.

Can a regular charger get the battery working again? Like the Vapecell S4 Plus.

No, they use proprietary chargers or USB direct plug in.
I’ve seen some people claim you can use a regular charger. I tried. Some……appear……to work, but don’t work properly. Charging fails. The electronics interfere with the proper function of the charger.

Note - I’m referring to an ‘apparently’ dead battery when the overdischarge limit engages and the cell appears to go ‘dead’/0 volts. The stock charging will bring it back. Normal behavior.
If the electronics FAIL, then it’s shot.

I’ve had ONE protected cell fail. Removed the protection and the cell was fine.
I’ve seen a number of BMS on multi-cell packs fail, when the batteries were just fine.

Venom · 2022-12-23T13:33:40.000Z

flydiver:

No, they use proprietary chargers or USB direct plug in.
I’ve seen some people claim you can use a regular charger. I tried. Some……appear……to work, but don’t work properly. Charging fails. The electronics interfere with the proper function of the charger.

Note - I’m referring to an ‘apparently’ dead battery when the overdischarge limit engages and the cell appears to go ‘dead’/0 volts. The stock charging will bring it back. Normal behavior.
If the electronics FAIL, then it’s shot.

I’ve had ONE protected cell fail. Removed the protection and the cell was fine.
I’ve seen a number of BMS on multi-cell packs fail, when the batteries were just fine.

I know the AAA rechargeable need the supplied charger to fully charge.

I was wondering if the Vapecell S4 can repair a damage rechargeable AAA. Like the charger does with regular Li Ion batteries.

flydiver · 2022-12-23T14:02:27.000Z

You mean over discharged repair?

If the 1.5v over discharges, the circuit has failed. It’s broken. No repair possible.

If the Vapecell has ‘repair’ capability, all it’s doing is accepting an over discharge voltage status and charging it, or at least trying to. Many ‘smart’ chargers simply reject them if the voltage gets below a programmed threshold.
They are not ‘repairing’ anything. They are ignoring possible damage and charging anyway. They can’t ‘fix’ it.
Whether you are willing to accept that the cell has been damaged, and therefore has a higher possibility of failure is up to you. That’s a WHOLE different discussion, that goes on here all the time.

Note- you can ‘jump/bump’ an over discharged lion with another cell until the voltage comes up to an acceptable level, THEN put it on a smart charger and go. It’s essentially the same thing. No fix, just a ‘trick’. Risks are the same.

Venom · 2022-12-23T21:56:15.000Z

flydiver:

You mean over discharged repair?

If the 1.5v over discharges, the circuit has failed. It’s broken. No repair possible.

If the Vapecell has ‘repair’ capability, all it’s doing is accepting an over discharge voltage status and charging it, or at least trying to. Many ‘smart’ chargers simply reject them if the voltage gets below a programmed threshold.
They are not ‘repairing’ anything. They are ignoring possible damage and charging anyway. They can’t ‘fix’ it.
Whether you are willing to accept that the cell has been damaged, and therefore has a higher possibility of failure is up to you. That’s a WHOLE different discussion, that goes on here all the time.

Note- you can ‘jump/bump’ an over discharged lion with another cell until the voltage comes up to an acceptable level, THEN put it on a smart charger and go. It’s essentially the same thing. No fix, just a ‘trick’. Risks are the same.

I don’t much about the charger since I just bought it. I mainly use it for charging,

Here is a pic from HKJ review of the Vapecell. I don’t know what the repair function does.

It’s probably best just to recycle the battery if a issue arises.

I’ll just use the battery until the device doesn’t work then recharge in the supplied charger.

flydiver · 2022-12-23T22:09:16.000Z

Ah, explanation is in the HJK review:

*[Repair LiIon & NiMH:
Repair runs 3 charges and 3 discharges, this means batteries ends up discharged. This mode do not allow selection of current.]*

So, it just cycles the batteries. IMO, +this function is worthless on Lion+, and may have some utility on neglected, abused, or stored NiMh.
I'm in the process of doing that with some stored NiMh right now. Run 'em down, charge, repeat, until the capacity stabilizes. May take 3-5 rounds to get to that point. Time consuming.
On older batteries that do not terminate well the automatic cycle/repair may not work very well. I think a more accurate word would be 'exercise' the battery, as it really does not 'repair' anything.

Venom · 2022-12-23T22:26:14.000Z

You can always count on HKJ reviews for the answer.

I have some old Duracell AA NiMH, 2500 mAh that has high resistance. In automatic mode the charger select a lower charging rate. It’s barely used AA and already has issues.

Do you think the repair function will help?

flydiver · 2022-12-24T02:08:11.000Z

Venom:

You can always count on HKJ reviews for the answer.

I have some old Duracell AA NiMH, 2500 mAh that has high resistance. In automatic mode the charger select a lower charging rate. It’s barely used AA and already has issues.

Do you think the repair function will help?

[high resistance] - there’s a significant part of your answer. It’s kind of the battery equivalent of doddering old age. Used to be good once, but not anymore. Can ‘doddering old age’ be fixed? Nope. Can it be ‘buffed up’? Maybe. But its’ not going to fix old age.
High capacity NiMh cells of ANY SORT including Eneloops, don’t do as well as their more moderate varieties. There is always a price to pay. The 2700-2900mAh NiMh go to hell pretty rapidly, even with little use.

What have you got to lose, a few cheap batteries?
Try. Experiment. See what you get. Wonderful opportunity to learn. Go for it.

NeutralFan · 2022-12-24T02:27:53.000Z

Nice review SammysHP!

Some day I’ll have to try these Li-ion AA/AAA batteries, although I don’t currently have any issues using my 1.2V eneloops.

stephenk · 2022-12-24T06:40:55.000Z

Very interesting review. Thank you!

Venom · 2022-12-24T13:59:16.000Z

flydiver:

[high resistance] - there’s a significant part of your answer. It’s kind of the battery equivalent of doddering old age. Used to be good once, but not anymore. Can ‘doddering old age’ be fixed? Nope. Can it be ‘buffed up’? Maybe. But its’ not going to fix old age.
High capacity NiMh cells of ANY SORT including Eneloops, don’t do as well as their more moderate varieties. There is always a price to pay. The 2700-2900mAh NiMh go to hell pretty rapidly, even with little use.

What have you got to lose, a few cheap batteries?
Try. Experiment. See what you get. Wonderful opportunity to learn. Go for it.

The Duracell AA 2500 mAh was charged once then stored for years. When I bought the Vapcell charger I gave the Duracell a charge. Only one had high resistance. I never owned a analyzer charger before. U could check when the Duracell was new.

Is it possible for the Duracell NiMH have issues with only one top off charge, years ago? I have to look for the date on the battery.

flydiver · 2022-12-24T15:04:55.000Z

Venom:

The Duracell AA 2500 mAh was charged once then stored for years. When I bought the Vapcell charger I gave the Duracell a charge. Only one had high resistance. I never owned a analyzer charger before. U could check when the Duracell was new.
Is it possible for the Duracell NiMH have issues with only one top off charge, years ago? I have to look for the date on the battery.

Batteries age, even if not used. FWIW, NiMh seem to fare better when used. A half dozen full cycles (0.9-1.0v > full) will likely help, but won’t make them young again. Like I said, try it.

Resistance readings on chargers like that are “approximate”. Due to the slider mechanism they are not highly accurate, or repeatable. They are better than nothing, for sure.
HKJ test found that unit to be decent:

[The internal resistance values are only about half of actual resistance, but they are fairly consistent.]

Is this your battery?
http://aacycler.com/battery/aa/duracell-ultra-2500/
Note the rapid rise in resistance, and the drop in capacity. The site is interesting to look at the long term change of many different cells.
Compare that to Eneloop: Panasonic eneloop · AA Cycler

The increased resistance/capacity drop happens to them all. It just depends on how soon and what kind of use pattern.

Venom · 2022-12-25T00:15:28.000Z

flydiver:

Venom:

The Duracell AA 2500 mAh was charged once then stored for years. When I bought the Vapcell charger I gave the Duracell a charge. Only one had high resistance. I never owned a analyzer charger before. U could check when the Duracell was new.
Is it possible for the Duracell NiMH have issues with only one top off charge, years ago? I have to look for the date on the battery.

Batteries age, even if not used. FWIW, NiMh seem to fare better when used. A half dozen full cycles (0.9-1.0v > full) will likely help, but won’t make them young again. Like I said, try it.

Resistance readings on chargers like that are “approximate”. Due to the slider mechanism they are not highly accurate, or repeatable. They are better than nothing, for sure.
HKJ test found that unit to be decent:

[The internal resistance values are only about half of actual resistance, but they are fairly consistent.]

Is this your battery?
DURACELL ULTRA 2500 · AA Cycler
Note the rapid rise in resistance, and the drop in capacity. The site is interesting to look at the long term change of many different cells.
Compare that to Eneloop: Panasonic eneloop · AA Cycler

The increased resistance/capacity drop happens to them all. It just depends on how soon and what kind of use pattern.

That’s my battery in the first link. DX1500 I’m going to check the date if I can find my magnifying glass.

I find it weird that I topped off the battery once when new. Then years later, it’s has issues. It doesn’t hold up well with time.

flydiver · 2022-12-25T00:23:04.000Z

I had some Ansmann 2850mAh quite a few years ago. Back then I thought…cool, brand name, lots of capacity. They were garbage in 2 years of occasional use, not abuse. Learning experience.
ANY AA NiMh much over 2000mAh will deteriorate faster than the same brand in 1900-2000.
OTOH, I have some old, quite old, Energizer NiMh I use kind of ruthlessly and they are still going, not great, but still usable.

Venom · 2022-12-26T13:21:30.000Z

flydiver:

I had some Ansmann 2850mAh quite a few years ago. Back then I thought…cool, brand name, lots of capacity. They were garbage in 2 years of occasional use, not abuse. Learning experience.
ANY AA NiMh much over 2000mAh will deteriorate faster than the same brand in 1900-2000.
OTOH, I have some old, quite old, Energizer NiMh I use kind of ruthlessly and they are still going, not great, but still usable.

Just look. I could only find the serial number on the Duracell. The other number might be a batch number. No date stamp.

I started the repair cycle on the Duracell. Just to top off, it took 2 1/2 to get to 95% from 60%. I had to stop the charger. I didn’t realize how time consuming it going to be.

flydiver · 2022-12-26T15:59:42.000Z

You have something else the charger needs to be doing?
A “large” battery on repair cycle can take a very long time. Depends on; how big the cell, what the charge/discharge settings are, how many cycles.

Remember about that charger:
[Repair runs 3 charges and 3 discharges, this means batteries ends up discharged. This mode do not allow selection of current.]

Depending on what current it ends up using it may have trouble terminating properly, especially if the current is low, and the internal resistance is high. So….that will mess up the [Repair Cycle].
I have some old cells that simply will not go through one of those cycles properly. Those are probably soon to be recycled.

SammysHP · 2022-12-26T16:14:33.000Z

Maybe you should continue this discussion in a new thread because it’s rather off-topic here.