[Review] XTAR 1.5V AAA rechargeable batteries

Venom · 2022-12-22T22:58:46.000Z

SammysHP:

IF it fails. It’s also possible that the charging circuit won’t work anymore in that case. But this can happen with any device that uses Li-ion batteries.

Can a regular charger get the battery working again? Like the Vapecell S4 Plus.

flydiver · 2022-12-22T23:59:24.000Z

Venom:

SammysHP:

IF it fails. It’s also possible that the charging circuit won’t work anymore in that case. But this can happen with any device that uses Li-ion batteries.

Can a regular charger get the battery working again? Like the Vapecell S4 Plus.

No, they use proprietary chargers or USB direct plug in.
I’ve seen some people claim you can use a regular charger. I tried. Some……appear……to work, but don’t work properly. Charging fails. The electronics interfere with the proper function of the charger.

Note - I’m referring to an ‘apparently’ dead battery when the overdischarge limit engages and the cell appears to go ‘dead’/0 volts. The stock charging will bring it back. Normal behavior.
If the electronics FAIL, then it’s shot.

I’ve had ONE protected cell fail. Removed the protection and the cell was fine.
I’ve seen a number of BMS on multi-cell packs fail, when the batteries were just fine.

Venom · 2022-12-23T13:33:40.000Z

flydiver:

No, they use proprietary chargers or USB direct plug in.
I’ve seen some people claim you can use a regular charger. I tried. Some……appear……to work, but don’t work properly. Charging fails. The electronics interfere with the proper function of the charger.

Note - I’m referring to an ‘apparently’ dead battery when the overdischarge limit engages and the cell appears to go ‘dead’/0 volts. The stock charging will bring it back. Normal behavior.
If the electronics FAIL, then it’s shot.

I’ve had ONE protected cell fail. Removed the protection and the cell was fine.
I’ve seen a number of BMS on multi-cell packs fail, when the batteries were just fine.

I know the AAA rechargeable need the supplied charger to fully charge.

I was wondering if the Vapecell S4 can repair a damage rechargeable AAA. Like the charger does with regular Li Ion batteries.

flydiver · 2022-12-23T14:02:27.000Z

You mean over discharged repair?

If the 1.5v over discharges, the circuit has failed. It’s broken. No repair possible.

If the Vapecell has ‘repair’ capability, all it’s doing is accepting an over discharge voltage status and charging it, or at least trying to. Many ‘smart’ chargers simply reject them if the voltage gets below a programmed threshold.
They are not ‘repairing’ anything. They are ignoring possible damage and charging anyway. They can’t ‘fix’ it.
Whether you are willing to accept that the cell has been damaged, and therefore has a higher possibility of failure is up to you. That’s a WHOLE different discussion, that goes on here all the time.

Note- you can ‘jump/bump’ an over discharged lion with another cell until the voltage comes up to an acceptable level, THEN put it on a smart charger and go. It’s essentially the same thing. No fix, just a ‘trick’. Risks are the same.

Venom · 2022-12-23T21:56:15.000Z

flydiver:

You mean over discharged repair?

If the 1.5v over discharges, the circuit has failed. It’s broken. No repair possible.

If the Vapecell has ‘repair’ capability, all it’s doing is accepting an over discharge voltage status and charging it, or at least trying to. Many ‘smart’ chargers simply reject them if the voltage gets below a programmed threshold.
They are not ‘repairing’ anything. They are ignoring possible damage and charging anyway. They can’t ‘fix’ it.
Whether you are willing to accept that the cell has been damaged, and therefore has a higher possibility of failure is up to you. That’s a WHOLE different discussion, that goes on here all the time.

Note- you can ‘jump/bump’ an over discharged lion with another cell until the voltage comes up to an acceptable level, THEN put it on a smart charger and go. It’s essentially the same thing. No fix, just a ‘trick’. Risks are the same.

I don’t much about the charger since I just bought it. I mainly use it for charging,

Here is a pic from HKJ review of the Vapecell. I don’t know what the repair function does.

It’s probably best just to recycle the battery if a issue arises.

I’ll just use the battery until the device doesn’t work then recharge in the supplied charger.

flydiver · 2022-12-23T22:09:16.000Z

Ah, explanation is in the HJK review:

*[Repair LiIon & NiMH:
Repair runs 3 charges and 3 discharges, this means batteries ends up discharged. This mode do not allow selection of current.]*

So, it just cycles the batteries. IMO, +this function is worthless on Lion+, and may have some utility on neglected, abused, or stored NiMh.
I'm in the process of doing that with some stored NiMh right now. Run 'em down, charge, repeat, until the capacity stabilizes. May take 3-5 rounds to get to that point. Time consuming.
On older batteries that do not terminate well the automatic cycle/repair may not work very well. I think a more accurate word would be 'exercise' the battery, as it really does not 'repair' anything.

Venom · 2022-12-23T22:26:14.000Z

You can always count on HKJ reviews for the answer.

I have some old Duracell AA NiMH, 2500 mAh that has high resistance. In automatic mode the charger select a lower charging rate. It’s barely used AA and already has issues.

Do you think the repair function will help?

flydiver · 2022-12-24T02:08:11.000Z

Venom:

You can always count on HKJ reviews for the answer.

I have some old Duracell AA NiMH, 2500 mAh that has high resistance. In automatic mode the charger select a lower charging rate. It’s barely used AA and already has issues.

Do you think the repair function will help?

[high resistance] - there’s a significant part of your answer. It’s kind of the battery equivalent of doddering old age. Used to be good once, but not anymore. Can ‘doddering old age’ be fixed? Nope. Can it be ‘buffed up’? Maybe. But its’ not going to fix old age.
High capacity NiMh cells of ANY SORT including Eneloops, don’t do as well as their more moderate varieties. There is always a price to pay. The 2700-2900mAh NiMh go to hell pretty rapidly, even with little use.

What have you got to lose, a few cheap batteries?
Try. Experiment. See what you get. Wonderful opportunity to learn. Go for it.

NeutralFan · 2022-12-24T02:27:53.000Z

Nice review SammysHP!

Some day I’ll have to try these Li-ion AA/AAA batteries, although I don’t currently have any issues using my 1.2V eneloops.

stephenk · 2022-12-24T06:40:55.000Z

Very interesting review. Thank you!

Venom · 2022-12-24T13:59:16.000Z

flydiver:

[high resistance] - there’s a significant part of your answer. It’s kind of the battery equivalent of doddering old age. Used to be good once, but not anymore. Can ‘doddering old age’ be fixed? Nope. Can it be ‘buffed up’? Maybe. But its’ not going to fix old age.
High capacity NiMh cells of ANY SORT including Eneloops, don’t do as well as their more moderate varieties. There is always a price to pay. The 2700-2900mAh NiMh go to hell pretty rapidly, even with little use.

What have you got to lose, a few cheap batteries?
Try. Experiment. See what you get. Wonderful opportunity to learn. Go for it.

The Duracell AA 2500 mAh was charged once then stored for years. When I bought the Vapcell charger I gave the Duracell a charge. Only one had high resistance. I never owned a analyzer charger before. U could check when the Duracell was new.

Is it possible for the Duracell NiMH have issues with only one top off charge, years ago? I have to look for the date on the battery.

flydiver · 2022-12-24T15:04:55.000Z

Venom:

The Duracell AA 2500 mAh was charged once then stored for years. When I bought the Vapcell charger I gave the Duracell a charge. Only one had high resistance. I never owned a analyzer charger before. U could check when the Duracell was new.
Is it possible for the Duracell NiMH have issues with only one top off charge, years ago? I have to look for the date on the battery.

Batteries age, even if not used. FWIW, NiMh seem to fare better when used. A half dozen full cycles (0.9-1.0v > full) will likely help, but won’t make them young again. Like I said, try it.

Resistance readings on chargers like that are “approximate”. Due to the slider mechanism they are not highly accurate, or repeatable. They are better than nothing, for sure.
HKJ test found that unit to be decent:

[The internal resistance values are only about half of actual resistance, but they are fairly consistent.]

Is this your battery?
http://aacycler.com/battery/aa/duracell-ultra-2500/
Note the rapid rise in resistance, and the drop in capacity. The site is interesting to look at the long term change of many different cells.
Compare that to Eneloop: Panasonic eneloop · AA Cycler

The increased resistance/capacity drop happens to them all. It just depends on how soon and what kind of use pattern.

Venom · 2022-12-25T00:15:28.000Z

flydiver:

Venom:

The Duracell AA 2500 mAh was charged once then stored for years. When I bought the Vapcell charger I gave the Duracell a charge. Only one had high resistance. I never owned a analyzer charger before. U could check when the Duracell was new.
Is it possible for the Duracell NiMH have issues with only one top off charge, years ago? I have to look for the date on the battery.

Batteries age, even if not used. FWIW, NiMh seem to fare better when used. A half dozen full cycles (0.9-1.0v > full) will likely help, but won’t make them young again. Like I said, try it.

Resistance readings on chargers like that are “approximate”. Due to the slider mechanism they are not highly accurate, or repeatable. They are better than nothing, for sure.
HKJ test found that unit to be decent:

[The internal resistance values are only about half of actual resistance, but they are fairly consistent.]

Is this your battery?
DURACELL ULTRA 2500 · AA Cycler
Note the rapid rise in resistance, and the drop in capacity. The site is interesting to look at the long term change of many different cells.
Compare that to Eneloop: Panasonic eneloop · AA Cycler

The increased resistance/capacity drop happens to them all. It just depends on how soon and what kind of use pattern.

That’s my battery in the first link. DX1500 I’m going to check the date if I can find my magnifying glass.

I find it weird that I topped off the battery once when new. Then years later, it’s has issues. It doesn’t hold up well with time.

flydiver · 2022-12-25T00:23:04.000Z

I had some Ansmann 2850mAh quite a few years ago. Back then I thought…cool, brand name, lots of capacity. They were garbage in 2 years of occasional use, not abuse. Learning experience.
ANY AA NiMh much over 2000mAh will deteriorate faster than the same brand in 1900-2000.
OTOH, I have some old, quite old, Energizer NiMh I use kind of ruthlessly and they are still going, not great, but still usable.

Venom · 2022-12-26T13:21:30.000Z

flydiver:

I had some Ansmann 2850mAh quite a few years ago. Back then I thought…cool, brand name, lots of capacity. They were garbage in 2 years of occasional use, not abuse. Learning experience.
ANY AA NiMh much over 2000mAh will deteriorate faster than the same brand in 1900-2000.
OTOH, I have some old, quite old, Energizer NiMh I use kind of ruthlessly and they are still going, not great, but still usable.

Just look. I could only find the serial number on the Duracell. The other number might be a batch number. No date stamp.

I started the repair cycle on the Duracell. Just to top off, it took 2 1/2 to get to 95% from 60%. I had to stop the charger. I didn’t realize how time consuming it going to be.

flydiver · 2022-12-26T15:59:42.000Z

You have something else the charger needs to be doing?
A “large” battery on repair cycle can take a very long time. Depends on; how big the cell, what the charge/discharge settings are, how many cycles.

Remember about that charger:
[Repair runs 3 charges and 3 discharges, this means batteries ends up discharged. This mode do not allow selection of current.]

Depending on what current it ends up using it may have trouble terminating properly, especially if the current is low, and the internal resistance is high. So….that will mess up the [Repair Cycle].
I have some old cells that simply will not go through one of those cycles properly. Those are probably soon to be recycled.

SammysHP · 2022-12-26T16:14:33.000Z

Maybe you should continue this discussion in a new thread because it’s rather off-topic here.

Venom · 2022-12-26T22:20:38.000Z

SammysHP:

Maybe you should continue this discussion in a new thread because it’s rather off-topic here.

Sorry for hijacking your thread!

I would delete my part if I know how to.

joenc · 2023-02-02T02:24:28.000Z

flydiver:

An average NiMh = 700+mAh. There is simply NO WAY to put the same kind of capacity in that little can with the electronics as a NiMh.

Don’t forget to account for energy density. NiMH power density per cell runs around 170-420 Wh/L; Li-ion cells pack 250-670 Wh/L.

flydiver · 2023-02-02T16:09:31.000Z

joenc:

flydiver:

An average NiMh = 700+mAh. There is simply NO WAY to put the same kind of capacity in that little can with the electronics as a NiMh.

Don’t forget to account for energy density. NiMH power density per cell runs around 170-420 Wh/L; Li-ion cells pack 250-670 Wh/L.

Understood…but, I think the critical part is what it DOES as a 1.5v battery. That’s what it’s designed as, that’s the bar it has to live up to. How it gets there is another issue.

I have yet to see ANY AAA of them put out more than 400mAh on a capacity test. Numerous individual cells I’ve tested barely make 300mAh at 0.2A draw (some don’t make 300 ), which is pretty pathetic. There’s a LOT of variation in the AAA. The size makes them pretty challenging to make I think.

AA don’t have quite as much volume penalty with the electronics stuffed in the ‘can’ so they can do 1600mAh+ but many fail at higher current draws.