Sketchy BangGood 30Qs- my verdict

Sunnysunsun · 2019-10-16T04:45:47.000Z

klrman:

Barkuti:

Genuine cells display an unmistakable level of uniformity: properly aligned and botch free printing, distinctive wrap color shade, characteristic top and other can details, etc.

I had to check after you mentioned that and both my BG and Illumn 30Qs’ are for sure not uniform in their printing. If anything, my Illumn 30’Qs are even more misaligned but I doubt they would be selling fakes. Seems Samsung does not print all their cells equally or there are a lot of fakes going around, I really don’t know.

It’s not just the samsUNg part. The mAh capacity difference from what it should be is quite alarming.

patmurris · 2019-10-16T20:44:08.000Z

Four of my eight BT 30Qs from BG came out of test on an Opus BT-C3100 (default test settings 500mAh):
2958, 2967, 2974 and 3008mAh. That’s pretty consistent with what they claim to be with a 50mAh (1.6%) overall scattering of capacity on that set, which seems decent too. The Opus is known to overestimate a bit capacities though…
Second set of four is on test…

PS: second set results are:
2924, 2915, 2937 and 2973. A bit lower and slightly more scattered then the previous set but still close - over 2900mAh.
Overall scattering for the eight cells is 3008-2915/3000 * 100 = 3.1% - 93mAh.

Barkuti · 2019-10-16T16:30:00.000Z

For reference:

Distinctive underwrap see-through cell markings: W26, L0H3 637B1, B01, J2B8 (twice).

While the printing may not be considered strictly uniform, you can see the perfectly smooth wrapping. This likely is because the cells are wrapped with a powerful, bobbin fed automated machine which distributes heat super evenly over the wrap. When less than professional wrapping equipment is used, wraps usually end up with creases.

I've been able to re-wrap some cells with no creases at all, but only with wraps which don't come nastily folded, and using a very powerful hair drier while juggling the cell in my hand.

By the way, the above picture needs resizing, see my signature Sunnysunsun.

patmurris · 2019-10-16T20:45:54.000Z

Re-wrapping is necessary for BT cells. That does not mean they are fake… even if they have wrinkles.

riffraff · 2019-10-16T21:55:21.000Z

patmurris:

Re-wrapping is necessary for BT cells. That does not mean they are fake… even if they have wrinkles.

“BT cells?” Button-top? :question:

patmurris · 2019-10-17T00:59:06.000Z

BT means button top yes.

AFAIK no manufacturer produces button top cells. It’s an addition that third parties put onto original cells, sometime with a protection circuit. Those need an additional wrapping layer to hold and conceal the “enhancement”, which in turn can conceal the original cell if opaque.

Sunnysunsun · 2019-10-17T01:05:53.000Z

patmurris:

BT means button top yes.

AFAIK no manufacturer produces button top cells. It’s an addition that third parties put onto original cells, sometime with a protection circuit. Those need an additional wrapping layer to hold and conceal the “enhancement”, which in turn can conceal the original cell if opaque.

They added an additional clear layer of wrapping on each cell. It’s the capacities that confuse me the most. Over 10% more than the nominal capacity is not normal

LumenHound · 2019-10-17T14:31:51.000Z

Fake for sure but I’ll buy them off you. Mind if I pay with $3 bills and $8 bills?

It’s BangGood. You pay your money and you get what you get.

leftdisconnected · 2019-10-22T02:15:42.000Z

LumenHound:

It’s BangGood. You pay your money and you get what you get.

Yes, but Banggood traditionally been a reliable source for Samsung 30Q’s, so it is an interesting and unfortunate development to see them delivering fakes. I don’t trust the company any further than I can throw them, but there have been situations in which they became a reliable source for certain products. Considering how difficult and expensive it is to buy and ship authentic li-ion cells, it’s a rather large blow to find that Banggood’s 30Q’s are not trustworthy.

They often offer four 30Q’s for ~$20 with minimal shipping charges to the U.S., so they became a popular source for these “universal” cells. There are stores that have better sales on genuine 30Q’s, but shipping (understandably) offsets even lowest best per-cell prices.

I do agree, however, that this trend fits with Banggood’s not-so-hard-earned reputation for general badness :person_facepalming: .

I bought one of their BLF A6 kits with included 30Q last November and I believe that cell is genuine and tests right around 3000mAh. It looks like Barkuti’s reference images. The L0I7 date code makes sense, though not super-fresh: I (2018), 7 (July).

I don’t have any, but I think that cells made in 2019 would have a xxJn in the top-most code on the metal can, where n is the month (i.e. hexadecimal 1-C). As I understand this, Barkuti’s cell appears to made in March, 2017.

d_t_a · 2019-10-23T02:14:20.000Z

leftdisconnected:

LumenHound:

It’s BangGood. You pay your money and you get what you get.

I don’t have any, but I think that cells made in 2019 would have a xxJn in the top-most code on the metal can, where n is the month (i.e. hexadecimal 1-C). As I understand this, Barkuti’s cell appears to made in March, 2017.

Samsung 30Qs are difficult to get for my location. I used to buy several BLF A6 + 30Q in Banggood so I can get legitimate Samsung 30Qs (then sell off the BLF A6 flashlight). Since I couldn’t get any Samsung 30Q shipped to my country in any other way. So most of my 30Qs actually came from the BLF A6 +30Q bundle. So far I believe all of them have been legit (although some might be a bit older date codes, like 2017 or 2018)

Just very very recently was able to get genuine 30Q from another source and easier to purchase for me locally.

I got some new 30Q that now has “141” (previous ones had “136” on the marking). The “141” had L0J4 so indicates year 2019. The “136” older ones may have H (2017) or I (2018). I think I have more 30Qs with the “I” date code (2018).

The “141” (J or 2019 date code) has lower AC IR (using YR1030 battery resistance meter) ~ I’m measuring just around 11.8mOhms, compared to the previous “136” (I or 2018 date code) which usually has around 13.0mOhms AC IR.

man_of_light · 2019-10-23T21:33:02.000Z

I made similar experience as Sunnysunsun, i bought 4 pcs. 30Q’s Button Tops from BangGood one month ago. They look exactly the same as on the pictures in the first post.
I also have some genue flat top 30Q’s that I bought from NKON, they look exactly like the pictures from Barkuti. The difference made me a bit nervous right befor i tested them with my XTAR VP4 Plus Charger, as allways with newly purchased cells. I thought, OK might come from the necessary rewrapping, which must always be done with Button Top cells.

The results shows a capacity for all four new BT cells in the Range 2650 - 2750mAh, i was expecting somewhat abaut 2950mAh. The internal resistance was 60 to 80% higher than all my genie 30Q’s and VTC6 cells (all flat tops). The cells work so far without problems, but I do not have a good feeling with those, I have put these aside.
I have doubts about these cells and don’t want to buy any LiIon’s at Banggood in next time. Although the two Shockli 26650 5500mAh, I recently bought from them are good, compared to another pair i bought from shockli store an AE.

Just wanted to share my experiences with you, maybe it will help somebody.

RobertB · 2019-10-23T22:11:49.000Z

man of light:

The results shows a capacity for all four new BT cells in the Range 2650 - 2750mAh, i was expecting somewhat abaut 2950mAh. The internal resistance was 60 to 80% higher than all my genie 30Q’s and VTC6 cells (all flat tops). The cells work so far without problems, but I do not have a good feeling with those, I have put these aside.
I have doubts about these cells and don’t want to buy any LiIon’s at Banggood in next time. Although the two Shockli 26650 5500mAh, I recently bought from them are good, compared to another pair i bought from shockli store an AE.

Just wanted to share my experiences with you, maybe it will help somebody.

Adding a button top is going to increase the resistance some. If the BT isn’t spot welded on and just sitting there held on by the gasket and clear wrapper, or not welded on very well, that will increase it even more. Maybe a lot more.

Sunnysunsun · 2019-12-26T05:41:21.000Z

I forgot to give an update to this thread.

I contacted banggood customer support and after a couple of days of negotiations, with them initially denying a problem at all, then offering being 800 BG points (equivalent to $8), I was finally offered a partial refund of $10USD per set which I was then satisfied with.

I would not recommend buying cells from banggood, and instead from a trusted local reseller such as illumn.

Di_Joker · 2019-12-26T07:10:34.000Z

Do your suspicious 30Q batteries have factory markings on a metal case? It is visible through the protective film.

Sunnysunsun · 2019-12-26T08:22:31.000Z

Di_Joker:

Do your suspicious 30Q batteries have factory markings on a metal case? It is visible through the protective film.

I don’t have them with me at the moment however when I tried looking through the wrapper and button top plastic layer a couple of months ago, I could see very faint outlines of text but they were too faint to be discernible.

Di_Joker · 2019-12-26T09:12:30.000Z

Sunnysunsun:

My sample, for comparison.

PiercingTheDarkness · 2019-12-26T15:18:49.000Z

Sunnysunsun:

I forgot to give an update to this thread.

I contacted banggood customer support and after a couple of days of negotiations, with them initially denying a problem at all, then offering being 800 BG points (equivalent to $8), I was finally offered a partial refund of $10USD per set which I was then satisfied with.

I would not recommend buying cells from banggood, and instead from a trusted local reseller such as illumn.

It seems Banggood’s button top supplier is mixing counterfeits with genuine. The 30Q flat tops are all genuine

gravelmonkey · 2019-12-26T15:57:19.000Z

I got dodgey 30Q button tops a from banggood few months ago, not sure what to do with 8 untrustworthy cells

Unloco · 2019-12-27T17:52:20.000Z

I would like to see the original positive pole … we will almost certainly find something like this: Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores! - #619 by Unloco

klrman · 2019-12-27T21:32:36.000Z

Di_Joker:

Sunnysunsun:

My sample, for comparison. !{width:95%}https://i.imgur.com/xjIlbje.jpg!

All my 30Q's from BG, FF and Illumn have printing under the labels when I shine the light on them. So what does it mean? It could probably just be Samsung identifying the batches with codes so the cells don't get mixed up when being wrapped.