Smooth Hybrid Reflector (P60)

I’ve been working on this idea for some time and finally feel comfortable with it.
I really like smooth reflectors, but I don’t like the occasional artifacts in the beam pattern.
What I’ve found is that most of these artifacts, rings and hotspot corona are produced very low in the reflector.
The reflector is doing it’s job…it’s reflecting the light from the emitter but is also reflecting an ‘image’ of anything that’s illuminated around the emitter…such as the isolation pad, the emitter platform, the chopped sides of an XPL and even the hard edge of the emitter opening in the reflector. One of the biggest contributors to ringyness is the horizontal portion of the reflector (if present) around the emitter.
Something else about LEDs, the light emitted from the top isn’t the same color as the light emitted from the sides. The side light is usually much greener or bluer. This off-colored side light is headed right to the lower portion of the reflector and this portion of the reflector is what creates the corona around the hotspot. What you will usually see in a beam is a hotspot that is one color surrounded by a blue/green (or yellow/green) ring and finally, the spill is back the the hotspot color. You will see, a lot of manufacturers get rid of the ‘off-colored’ side light by burying the emitter deep in the reflector…almost under the reflector. The light from the emitter sides will just shoot under the reflector. I don’t like wasting this output…even if it’s a little off color, I just don’t want an off colored ring in my beam.

Here’s a photo of the different colors coming from different parts of the emitter. Of course, the center is washed out, but you can see the color variations as the light comes out of the side…it’s following chromatic order (you know…Roy G Biv), except, you really only noitice the Yellow, Green then Blue, but if you look carefully, you can begin to see the violet.

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Orange Peel reflectors do a much better job blending the artifacts together and making them less noticeable, but to maintain throw, an orange peel reflector can’t diffuse the light too much.

What I decided to do is to modify a smooth reflector so the area where these beam artifacts are usually created (deep in the reflector) would be very diffused…not just orange peel rippled, but very diffused…so heres what it looks like (reflectors are hard to photograph, but I think you will be able to make it out):

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I created several variations that were mainly different only the how high the diffusion went…the diffused area in the photo is about twice the amount I ultimately decided on, but this one was easier to photograph.

The upper portion of the reflector reflects to the center of the hotspot and the lower portion reflects to the outer portion of the hotspot. Since the lower portion of the reflector is now diffused, the outer portion of the hotspot is now softer. The hotspot is actually a little smaller, not more or less intense…just smaller. The ‘ugly’ corona is now spread evenly throughout the beam and is no longer noticeable…but it still contributes to overall output.

So, what does this reflector do?
Well, it’s throw hasn’t changed…the hotspot intensity is still the same…the hotspot is slightly smaller and the edges are a little more diffused.
The drop in overall output is minimal…less than 2%.
It kills the corona, it removes any ringyness that starts low in the reflector but it still throws like a regular smooth. Here’s a photo a normal smooth and the hybrid smooth (same emitter and reflector… just before and after I modified the reflector)

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The reflector still has the specularity of a smooth reflector, the throw of a smooth reflector but without the ringyness and corona. I’ve decided to add it as an option on my site, but I’m not sure why everyone wouldn’t want it. Next, I will try the same thing on an orange peel reflector and see if that’s worth pursuing.

I have seen this concept in automotive applications before, great execution on the P60 side!

Looks really neat, well done!

Another possibility, which is not DIY, is altering the focal length of the deepest part of the reflector, or even make it flat conical (oh no, that will guarantee rings).

Smoothing like you do may be best

Nice work.

Oooh, I like that! Selling them? We’re basically neighbors so I can come pick some up :slight_smile:

My first flashlight was a terrible crappy C8 with a plastic reflector, but that reflector had an OP section right down by the emitter and made the nicest beam I’ve seen to date. For that reason alone, I still have that crappy C8.

Is your method a trade secret? Your application looks very clean.

Yes, It’s a trade secret, so don’t tell anyone outside of our forum.
What makes it easy with a P60 is how easy the reflector surface is to scratch…you can blow on it wrong and scratch it.
Also, the P60 reflector is easy to mount into a lathe.
I mount the reflector into the lathe and run it at about 300 rpm. (The reason for a fairly slow speed, anything faster makes it very easy to burn through the reflective layer and into the orange primer layer). Then, using a very specialized tool (Q-Tip®) I stick it into the reflector all the way to the emitter hole and with light pressure, press it against the reflector surface…about 1/4 inch. The curved of the Q-tip head creates a nice transition from fully matte to full gloss.
I will try other reflectors…especially the C8, but because the reflector surface is more durable, it may require steel wool. There is also the issue of mounting a reflector with a taper the full length onto the lathe.

I suspect, If you’re careful, chucking a Q-tip into a drill may work, but it will not look as good or be as precise.

Is this the one?

I have 2 and that was the first thing that came to mind. It is a deep C8 and is a poor clone but does sport a direct drive driver and the unusual reflector.
Tint is bad but the flashlight is bright and does indeed have a nice beam profile.
Now you have me wanting to pull one of them out and updating the emitter.

Getting back to the OP subject,
pflexpro, great job on the P60 reflector, beam looks great!
Thanks!
Keith

Excellent work. Nice results for the hybrid beam pattern :slight_smile:

I’ve always been put off by the smooth reflectors in the P60’s due to the beam pattern. My immediate thought it that it could be etched via a suitable acid bath, but not something I’d want to try out.

Wow this actually works great! I don’t know how PFlexPro did it, but I just used a Q-tip dip’d lightly in Alcohol and twirled it around the bottom and worked my way up, I went a little too far at the bottom, it turned to a gold-ish color but as I worked my way up I lightened up on the pressure, enough to haze, diffuse the vapor coating. Cleaned the rings right out of it and the massive ring from the base of the emitter hole is GONE!!! The gold does look pretty cool too looking into the reflector!!! :wink: Just saved a box full of crap lights! :bigsmile: Thanks Randy!! :beer:

I have one I burned through to the gold base coat…although I would never ship one that way, it does have a nice effect. Remember the blue/green light from the side of the emitter…it hits the gold color and makes the blue/green band much more neutral. I agree -it does look cool when you look into the reflector.

Really great results, simple technique. Exc. job!!

I would just offer it on all the SMO P60’s you have. The beam improvement and your thermal upgrades would make this THE finest drop-in out there….

It was massive rings from a de-domed xpg-2 S2-2B (whitest )de-domed emitter I have ever seen, in a JM26, I modded, it was just saved from the Sledge Hammer!!! :bigsmile: No I was going to use the Blow Torch on that one? |(

yep alcohol will do that every time

edit: or maybe not

Nope I’m doing up a Brinyte POS, and the reflector is coming out hazed, with alcohol and even more pressure, so I think its the quality or thickness of the vapor coating? :~

I’ve just finished my first Convoy C8 Hybrid reflector…it’s perfect.
The build was a C8 at 4.2A with an XPL HI V2-1A. When building a Convoy C8 with an XLP or XPL HI, I do not use the Convoy stock reflector…the MTG sized hole is just too large. I use a smooth C8 reflector with a XM opening. I have found the XPL series have a lot of artifacts and are very ringy in a C8, but the hybrid reflector smoothed the beam out very well. Against a white wall at 15’, there is just a very slight hint of a mid-spill ring -almost unnoticeable. In normal use, it’s non-existent.
I checked the throw before and after the process and it remained unchanged.

There were two challenges making a C8 Hybrid reflector…first, the reflector was very hard to mount in my lathe…but I managed.
Next, I tried the Q-tip, but the finish was actually too durable. I ended up wrapping some #0000 steel wool around the Q-Tip, and it worked perfectly.

For those who don’t have a lathe, I think you can still manage by clipping the end off of a Q-Tip and mounting it into a drill. The Q-Tip by itself is great for a P60 reflector. If you’re going to try it on a more durable reflector, just wrap the steel wool around the head of the Q-Tip and wrap tape around the shaft of the Q-Tip to hold the steel wool. Use low speed and light pressure. It would be best if you try it on a light that you can get a replacement reflector for…just in case.

I may never ship another C8 without the Hybrid reflector.