Is it my imagination or has all the commotion died down? Are they still used by military and law enforcement? I imagine there are many other acceptable options now for mission critical applications.
Many are still used along with Streamlight. Some military members that I know use other brands that already have but Surefire and Streamlight are the most common.
It’s all about contracts. Lowest bidder gets the love. Elzetta, Malkoff, and Modlite (WML’s) are some smaller players (maybe even Fenix), especially where individual officers have discretion to purchase and/or carry their own equipment. Not sure what the LE/.mil market share is, but I imagine Surefire and Streamlight have to be fairly neck and neck.
After the Iraki war, things slowed down and SureFire was a bit late to the ‘upgrading’ game, so we are where we are.
I have a 6P, but that will probably be my only SF light.
Chris
Surefire and Streamlight are mostly it with Federal contracts. In those contracts they have to pass 100% of the test requirements. Can’t pass the requirements then not considered for the bids. Many smaller agencies then buy the winners product accepting Federal testing. At the SHOT show Surefire engineers tells some stories about working there. With no testing protocol the first P60 was put in a dryer for some time and survived but the dryer was all chipped up inside so Surefire bought the Engineers wife a new one. Another was the young engineers would bring their work to the Lead who would drop it or toss it across the room. If it still worked then they would discuss the next step.
Any idea what those tests are?
The US Federal Acquisition Regulation FAR. I’m quite sure the Chinese government only buys Chinese flashlights.
First requirement from most is that it’s made in the USA. Next requirements are mandated by mission and agency requirement. Last requirements are the fine details in Federal law. Many bidders stick to the bid requirements. Example for the SOCOM Offensive handgun requirements was it hold at least 12 rounds, so H&K submitted one that only held 12. A few years later a contract for at least 10 rounds of 45acp, H&K again submits a 10 round pistol. So if a light is required at least 500 lumen output. It’ll probably be just over 500 and no more. The future US military rifle has a wish list that only a few companies could ever hope to pull off. Hence only two competitors left.
So much for competition, companies only meet the minimum so if there were no minimum you would get junk.
This is good in that its actually pushing the envelope.
If there were real competition then it would push things forward faster than the government having to do it.
I used to have three Surefire’s, and I got rid of them when I stopped using CR123 lights. None of them would use a rechargeable cell. Would probably still have them if they did. Not sure how they are now, but I do not have much interest in them.
Not that bad. Federal bids have failed before. Didn’t have at least minimum amount of competitors. All the minimums weren’t meet. You’re never going to see a contract offered without a long list of what it can do or survive. If say three bids meet all the requirements then it’s usually the lowest bidder unless someone submitted some thing so good price got an exemption.
I like Surefire. I have rechargeable Surefires. Even the ones that take the 2-123A Surefire.
It can be substituted for the 16650 which doubles the capacity of the 123A Surefire.
The Sanyo 2500 mAh is almost gone. The Keepower is a Sanyo 2200 because of the protection.
The original Sanyo, which I have for my Surefire, is 4.35V.
However. Vapcell came out with a 2000 mAh which is pretty decent. And stronger than 2-123A Surefire.
3.99 @ Ilumn. Free commercial. They have The Keepower also. But it’s out of my budget.
I have other goodies for Surefire. Like 18650 6Ps. Battery holders with 3-18650 for the M6, etc.
When the is a will …….
Cheers.
P.S.
I have more than 100 different models Surefires.
I’ve got the Tactician that uses the 123a cells but use Nitecore and Vapcell 16340s instead. They’re rechargeable and last longer, I’ve tried the 16650 but the voltage is about half so it’s not as bright.
How can you afford this?
Surefires are SOLID. Really, few can compare. I’ve got 3 Surefire flashlights in my collection. There’s something about the thickness of the body walls, the precise machining of screw threads, the hardiness of the rubber switch boots…
But, alas, they’re always behind the curve on emitters. That doesn’t matter to law enforcement & the military. They don’t want bleeding edge. They want rugged, reliable & dependable kit. Surefire delivers. Plus, there’s the heritage. The long track record.
I’ve toyed with the idea of upgrading an old Surefire U2, but frankly the effort wouldn’t pay off. For just one type of mod, I was tempted to get the tube on my U2 drilled out so it can take an 18650… but frankly, even paying $50 doesn’t seem to be worth it. I’d be spending more than what would cost for a really nice & more powerful Anduril driven flashlight. I’d rather just take a couple CR123’s to power it, knowing those cells have an incredibly long shelf life. These old Surefire flashlights stay in my collection as exemplars of the past. And frankly, once in a while it’s nice to take them out for a spin. The Kroma is a really odd beastie (one of the early LED lights with primary white and auxiliary red & blue LEDs), and frankly I think a bit of a beauty in design. It’s more of a novelty.
I expect that he has acquired quite a few on the used market, for a good bit below retail. That’s how 2 of my Surefires ended up in my collection.
I’ve got an old incan A2. I removed the red 5mm LEDs and replaced them with some 3300K 90CRI 5mm LEDs.
It’s supposed to use 2x123 but this light actually drives the lamp with a 4.5v buck driver so I use 16340 Li-ions and it works great.
The 5mm LEDs are direct driven with just a resistor in series but since the LEDs used to be red, the resistor value is perfect for white LEDs at the higher voltage of the Li-ion cells.
I don’t carry it much anymore but I often use it around the apartment just for fun.
I don’t get it, why would they submit something below the minimum and be disqualified from the start?
Correct. A big part of my Surefire collection was obtained in the pre-owned market.
Mostly eBay auctions. It’s double the fun.
They fluctuate between 30 dollars for a 6P and 770 for the UDR Intimidator. A bargain. It’s 1300 new.
But the most costly ones have been at garage sales. Not the lights by themselves.
But what I spend in stupid things I will never use. I don’t stop anymore.
Mercari had some bargains when they started. Now it’s worse than new.
Also, I’ve been at it for more than twenty years.
Talking about 123s rechargeable. The original 123s Surefire rechargeable were 3.2v, or RCR123A.
The 16340 is 3.7v. Which means that the emitter will work, but will also suffer in the long run.
Besides, they don’t last as much as one 16650. A bit more power for less emitter life.
To each it’s own. I don’t consider them flashlights, but toys.
My flashlights are Imalent, Acebeam and Olight. In that order.
Cheers.
Surefire hasn’t made an interesting light since Paul Kim left, imo. I’m sure their current models are good quality, durable, etc. but they just never recaptured the magic of the P60 and the E-series and the A2 and the U2 and all those other classic models.
About a third of my collection is old Surefires, some stock and some with (light) mods. I particularly like the A2 with a FiveMega Strion socket and 3200K Yuji LEDs and the E1e and E2e with Tana SingLED drop-ins. A 219b 4000K with programmable multi-mode driver in those classic E-series hosts is pretty cool.
They didn’t. Textron, SigSauer, and General Dynamic’s submitted several rifles. Rumors are Textron dropped out because they might believe this is a dead program before birth. Military dream list included a 6.8mm 130gr bullet doing 3000fps out of a 16” barrel to defeat level 4 armor at 600 meters. This ended up with a steel based cartridge the size of a 7.62x51 at 80,000psi. This in an assault rifle size kicks too hard. Armor requirements are probably going to be dropped to 400 meters. 400 is current range good shooters can engage and is much more realistic. 6.8x43 SPC might just get resurrected again. An older 2002-2004 project done as the Enhanced Rifle Cartridge Program.