That is really cool it still blows me away that Tesla’s at the end of the day are powered by 18650’s. All this time and I thought they had developed their own proprietary battery technology.
That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Makes sense, though, given how big it is and the fact that it needs to be solid enough to protect the cells anyway. I like clever designs like that, where the same chunk of material serves multiple functions.
I believe that new Tesla designs will be using the 21700 format. If I remember rightly, Elon Musk said that the larger cell is more efficient in terms of volume and capacity, although I do wonder why they didn’t just go to 26650.
Watched this cool video from same channel.
A lot of Lii-500 and Zanflare C4.
For $1580 for a module with 444 low drain panasonic cells, that comes out to about $3.5 per cell. You can buy them new for that or cheaper, and not have to take apart a pack.
Here is his webpage where he sells batteries. Are these good prices?
https://mailchi.mp/jag35/lets-build-diy-battery-stuff?e=[UNIQID]
You can get 10A 2600mah LG cells at Liion right now for 2.99
Not really. They work with Panasonic mostly.
Tesla use NCA chemistries. No other EV manufacturer does that.
NCA cells are susceptible to thermal runaway. Tesla use active cooling, careful packaging and software management to keep that from happening.
Everyone else use batteries that are more stable but have a lower energy density.
Until recently, Tesla buy in batteries. They just started production in Nevada. That plant is a joint venture.
Car traction batteries are rapidly evolving. In less than 4 years, Nissan LEAF has gone from 24kWh to 30kWh and now 40kWh without changing the overall size of the battery pack. A same size 60kWh pack is on the way. I expect an official announcement in September or October.
The current model S and X still use 18650. The new model 3 will be using the newer 21700 size battery. I imagine that the older model cars will eventually transition to the 21700.
The reason they don’t use a bigger diameter has to do with cooling. The water cooling systems aren’t capable of pulling the heat from the core of the bigger diameter batteries. The smaller diameter 21700 allows for adequate heat transfer through the entire cell. This is my understanding.
BMW or the German’s in general are gonna eat their lunch.
And not take my tax subsidy in the process.
Just calling em’ as I see em’
Profit performance or lack there of;
Don’t forget Nissan, they’ve made over 300,000 Leafs already (Jan 2018), and the latest ones just get better.
The world’s best-selling EV. And comparable with a Tesla model 3 except far more practical, and available.
Not using a huge pile of small cells. That got Tesla quickly into the game with premium “wow” cars, but it’s a dead-end I think. Can’t scale (despite powering up a chunk of Australia with an extreme “powerwall” to prove a point).
Most of EU Leafs are supplied from UK (Sunderland), let’s see how that works out later.
My chiropractor has a Leaf and likes it but he only uses it local so have no idea of true range.
Thanks for the info.
I’m not surprised that Tesla’s having trouble with profitability. They’ve tried to go from 0 to 100 with their production (no pun intended). Musk says they’ll create profit this year, but I doubt they’ll meet their goals.
I think Elon Musk is probably taking a much longer view of world domination. It’s risky the way he’s doing it, but if he can reel it in one day, there won’t be a “competitor” to speak of. He seems to want more than just to make/sell cars.
Disclosure: This is just my take, and I don’t even know anything. 
The Detroit big three have taken far more money from the government than Tesla ever has.
Can we not talk politics?
The battery packs are very interesting.
Did you guys know the prius used nickel-metal hydride batteries until just recently?
As far as I’ve read, Ford didn’t participate in the bailout like GM and Chrysler did, but they were granted a 4.4 billion dollar loan from Dept of Energy, to start the fuel efficient and hybrid line. Schedule to be completely paid off in another 3 yrs.
Interestingly enough, DOE loaned Nissan 1.4 billion to start the Leaf car and battery plant in Tennesee. NISSAN | Department of Energy
Ahh… that makes sense. More surface area per unit volume with the 21700, as compared to the 26650, but still getting more capacity than the 18650.
I knew that from a while ago, but didn’t know the current state of affairs. I take it that means they’ve switched to Li-Ion as well now?
Yes agreed.
“Lithium-ion batteries are notable for having a relatively high energy density (the amount of energy that can be stored per unit of weight or volume). Nickel-metal hydride batteries perform stably even at low temperatures. Toyota uses the features of each battery type to meet customer requests and regional needs.”
Source: Toyota Global Site.
Which in real life could mean that Li-Ion is confined to US and Japan. Some say that the Li-Ion battery gets a better MPG in the EPA ratings while NiMH batteries cope better with the EU test cycle.
You know, I just can’t read a sentence beginning with “Some say” without slowing down and reading it with an internal Jeremy Clarkson voice.
