Test/review of Samsung INR21700-50E 5000mAh (Cyan)

shadockan · 2019-05-04T10:21:54.000Z

Another battery that is superior TODAY up to 15A compared to Lishen SF is the following …

Panasonic (Sanyo) NCR 21700 A 5000mAh 15A.
You will find this battery as
Vapcell 5000 15A (purple).
Not Vapcell 10A …….
At 20A something did not work correctly on HKJ’s measurements and did not give the right result (if I remember correctly)

LarryLumens · 2019-05-04T11:45:42.000Z

This thread is a great resource for finding some high drain 21700. Both Convoy and Sofirn have new torches that use this size cell. I am glad the community made this info available. Thank you for all the contributions.

Satan · 2019-05-04T15:54:03.000Z

Any one try this wonder how it perform https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LiitoKala-21700-4800-5000mA-Li-ion-Battery-3-7V-Discharger-35A-Power-battery-Electronic-cigarette-battery/1823237_32999816891.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.7aae5e0dMvj741

SKV89 · 2019-05-04T16:18:34.000Z

shadockan:

SKV89 very good battery the Lishen 4550.
But here we are talking about a different type of battery …
Lishen SF is NMC, while the
Samy 50E
LG M50
are NCA batteries.
Lishen SF is capable of 20A, while Samy - LG for 10A.
Lishen SF will compare it to the
Samy 40T
Moli P42A.

Not sure what NMC and NCA mean, but if the Lishen LR2170SF 4550mah (I measured at 4,7xx - 4,8xx mah) measures at a mere 150 - 200mah less than the Samsung 50E and LG M50 (I measured both at 4,9xx mah) but is actually in a higher performance class of the likes of 40T and P42A, then that makes the Lishen even more amazing! I replaced my 48G, 50E and M50 with the Lishens in my mid power 21700 lights because I know it will maintain a higher output level throughout the entire discharge curve and the price is good.

I don’t like the Panasonic (Sanyo) NCR21700 5000mah battery because of the recessed top, it will not work in my charger. I bought both the Vapcell recessed top version and button top version. The button top version soldered on by Vapcell adds so much resistance that it performs significantly worst than even the 48G. Ouch! Therefore I think the best high capacity on the market right now is the Lishen LR2170SF until the Molicel M50 or Lishen LR2170SC becomes available. I think Vapcell said they will be trying to source both of these, but I doubt they will be able to anytime soon so if anyone is in the market to buy high capacity 21700 cells, don’t wait on it.

Blggg · 2019-05-04T21:05:29.000Z

Sadly, Lishen LR2170SC can only shipped to certain countries supported by 18650battarystore.com. Anyone knows any other sites that sell it? Is not even in aliexpress.

hasddie293 · 2019-05-04T21:31:39.000Z

[quote=SKV89]

shadockan:

… Therefore I think the best high capacity on the market right now is the Lishen LR2170SF until the Molicel M50 or Lishen LR2170SC becomes available. I think Vapcell said they will be trying to source both of these, but I doubt they will be able to anytime soon so if anyone is in the market to buy high capacity 21700 cells, don’t wait on it.

So, SKV89 well explain…
Lishen LR2170F(current version beat Samy 50E, LG M50 by being more high drain cell likes 40T and P42A even capacity rated merely close)

Upcoming 21700 LISHEN LR2170SC and Molicel M50A…

speaking of Lishen, where did you get from?

4492011 · 2019-05-04T21:33:27.000Z

I dont beleive that the LR2170SC is available yet, it is not on the 18650baterystore site. But they do have the LR2170SF and I believe that is the same as the Vapecell 4500 mah 20 amp Red can be found on Aliexpress.

4492011 · 2019-05-04T21:36:20.000Z

4492011:

I dont beleive that the LR2170SC is available yet, it is not on the 18650baterystore site. But they do have the LR2170SF and I believe that is the same as the Vapecell 4500 mah 20 amp Red can be found on Aliexpress.

Also the Shockli I beleive is the same battery. Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

4492011 · 2019-05-04T21:40:59.000Z

4492011:

4492011:

I dont beleive that the LR2170SC is available yet, it is not on the 18650baterystore site. But they do have the LR2170SF and I believe that is the same as the Vapecell 4500 mah 20 amp Red can be found on Aliexpress.

Also the Shockli I beleive is the same battery. Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

Here is the Vapecell . Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

shadockan · 2019-05-05T09:11:25.000Z

Satan@103TFS
From the photos, the positive pole is like Sony’s positive pole …
But …… You never know ……

SKV89
I do not know how to upload photos ……
I would show you a table of the types of batteries we use today at most.
I will try to write them as well as I can ….

LMO = IMR = strength, safety, high temperature rise resistance.
LCO = ICR = Large capacity, many life cycles (with discharges as specified by the manufacturer.)

Group of INR hybrid batteries
MNC = NiMnCo = We can say that they are the batteries that replaced the IMRs.
NCA = NiCoAl = We can say that they replaced the ICRs, but with a significant improvement in behavior … in the difficult situations …

INR - NMC = Li (NiMnCo) O
INR - NCA = Li (NiCoAl) O

There are some variations like Sanyo NSX and Samsung 29E.
Sanyo NSX = Li (NiMnCoAl) O
Samsung 29E = Li (NiCo) O
Sanyo NSX belongs to INR - NMC.
Samsung 29E belongs to INR = NCA.

NMCs are batteries that perform better than power.
The NCAs
(or NCR as Panasonic wants to call them),
is as general picture, larger in capacity.

In recent years, of course, we are seeing a very high growth in NCAs, which have achieved even 15 Amps.

I hope my answer will satisfy you my friend.

Enderman · 2019-05-05T09:13:07.000Z

Any news on the 50E2?

toobadorz · 2019-05-05T15:21:13.000Z

Sanyo NCR21700A (a.k.a. Tesla 21700) is now widely seen in China cell market.

Unlike the earlier expensive prices, it is fairly cheap now. We all know the recessed top is simply awful and makes this cell almost useless, so this issue is already resolved by the sellers in two different ways, as shown in the following pictures:

Method 1:

Adding a plate of nickel, by laser. The introduced resistance is fairly small, but the top still looks slightly recessed after wrapping. Capacity can be up to 4900mAh, at 15A load down to 2.5V.

Method 2:

Adding a normal top. This is a good solution, but the introduced resistance is a bit higher, making the measured average capacity lower (~100mAh lower after measuring 10+ samples by me).

That new LiitoKala 21700 5000mAh appears to be a Sanyo NCR21700A processed with method 2.

Although this Tesla 21700 seems quite good in many aspects, you must beware that the ones you buy may be of lower grade. Since last year I have bought many of this cell from several different sellers, and though they looked identical, their performance varied widely, from 4500mAh to 5000mAh, so, be careful.

And the performance of LISHEN LR2170SF also varies, as I stated here.

SKV89 · 2019-05-05T21:21:09.000Z

I don’t trust any cells with button tops not added by the OEM because the resistance can be extremely high unless the specific cell with the added button top is tested by HKJ or Mooch to show otherwise. The Vapcell NCR21700A with the soldered button top increased the resistance so much that it performs much worst than the M50 or 50E, so there’s no point of buying the button top version of the Vapcell NCR21700A. The Vapcell recessed top version would still be a good buy if you have a compatible charger.

SubLGT · 2019-05-05T22:15:19.000Z

toobadorz:

…Although this Tesla 21700 seems quite good in many aspects, you must beware that the ones you buy may be of lower grade. Since last year I have bought many of this cell from several different sellers, and though they looked identical, their performance varied widely, from 4500mAh to 5000mAh, so, be careful…

There was a recent public report about contamination issues at the Tesla Gigafactory. Sounds like they may be selling the lower grade cells on the open market.

BlueSwordM · 2019-05-05T22:21:09.000Z

That’s probably it.

Panasonic is having some problems with lower quality cells(which may have lower capacities than 5Ah down to 2,5V), so they are selling these on the open market.

toobadorz · 2019-05-06T02:51:20.000Z

Some of these Tesla cell are of lower grade, certainly. But there are also good ones. Those with a nickel plate top are quite good, generally as good as the Vapcell recessed-top version, when being 15A discharged down to 2.5V (I already tested 8 pcs). And the nickel plate makes them perform better in a flashlight because the original recessed top means the springs cannot be compressed well (thus much more resistance).

toobadorz · 2019-05-06T03:01:17.000Z

SKV89:

I don’t trust any cells with button tops not added by the OEM because the resistance can be extremely high unless the specific cell with the added button top is tested by HKJ or Mooch to show otherwise. The Vapcell NCR21700A with the soldered button top increased the resistance so much that it performs much worst than the M50 or 50E, so there’s no point of buying the button top version of the Vapcell NCR21700A. The Vapcell recessed top version would still be a good buy if you have a compatible charger.

Adding a new top should never make this cell perform worse than 50E, if it was done well. The original recessed top is easily getting damaged or scratched (it’s aluminum), that concerned me so I once abandoned this cell until these processed versions are available.

shadockan · 2019-05-06T07:55:34.000Z

SKV89 ……
You mentioned above that in your opinion the
Lishen LR21700SF is the largest capacity battery for today.
This is wrong my friend.

If you compare Lishen to high demand with Moli P42A - Samy 40T , you will see Lishen loses a lot.
Also think that the electronic devices shut down about ± 3.2 volts.

The mAh that has delivered these three batteries at 3.2 volts
—- with 10A discharge is —-
Moli = ± 3500mAh
Samy = ± 3200 - 3300mAh
Lishen = ± 3500 - 3550mAh

—- with 20 Amps discharge, things are very different … —-
Moli = ± 3200mAh
Samy = ± 2980 - 3000mAh
Lishen = ± 2900 - 2950mAh

So it’s what you want to succeed.
On any measurement between these batteries, you’ll see Moli-Samy perform more Volts.
This means we have more power (Watts) across the discharge range.

So selecting a battery should be done with the purpose of the result we want to get and not based on the label numbers.

—- I believe you understand that I write in a spirit of friendship —-

Agro · 2019-05-06T08:06:10.000Z

Few flashlights can sustain 20A discharges from 4.2 to 3.2V. If any - actually none comes to my mind.
3A is more like it. Some larger lights can do significantly more. 10A - maybe though I haven’t seen it yet.
Furthermore not all users need to discharge at the thermal limits of their flashlights. Comparing at much lower rates is meaningful as well.
Therefore showing capacity at high discharge rates shows only a part of the picture.

SKV89 · 2019-05-06T08:34:29.000Z

shadockan:

SKV89 ……
You mentioned above that in your opinion the
Lishen LR21700SF is the largest capacity battery for today.
This is wrong my friend.

I didnt say the LR2170SF is the largest capacity 21700. I just said Mooch’s test found it to be the best high capacity 21700 and is also my favorite high capacity 21700, which I use in my medium output lights. I mainly use these lights in low or mid modes (under 5A) anyways with occassional turbos, which is where the Lishen shines. For my high output lights like the E07 xpl version, I would use 30T, 40T, and P42A.