Test/review of Shockli 26650 5250mAh (Green) 2018

Barkuti · 2018-06-07T23:16:21.000Z

Looks like tightly binned PLB 5000mAh NiCoMn cells, or sort of. The discharge performance is a little bit worse.

I have an interesting question in my mind. Observing your discharge graphs, if cells like this or the LiitoKala INR26650-50A were to be charged to 3.6-3.65V, they would still deliver about ⅓ of their maximum specified capacity, but due to the much lower energy and discharge time I believe they could handle up to 35A continuous down to 2.5V. May sound weird, but since they're so cheap they may work good as replacement for UPS batteries or even small cranking batteries (4S charging voltage: 14.4 to 14.6V).

Cheers ^:)

volchyonok · 2018-10-04T18:39:07.000Z

Hello, dear HKJ.
Doesn’t it seem strange to you that the new high-current batteries with a capacity of 5250mAh-2018 from Shockli actually turned out to be much worse than the old version of the high-current black batteries Shockli-5500mAh-2017? And they are not only smaller in capacity, but also hold power loads much weaker.
See for yourself, for example, the bit characteristics of both versions at a current of 20 amps or more. Even at 15 amps, they are far from the best. And this is despite the fact that on their green case there is a bright advertisement about the possibility of working under loads up to 40 amperes! These new 5250mAh green batteries are a step backwards rather than the advanced progress of this Chinese firm.

volchyonok · 2018-10-05T14:21:52.000Z

Dear HKJ, please tell me, are there any decent high-current 32650 Li-ion batteries that have excellent maximum capacity and stable retention of discharge characteristics? Batteries with such strong elements should be highly demanded for bicycle electric motors.
Out of 26650, Shockli-5500 (Black) and Golisi-4300 (Gold) look the most worthy. Are there such strong elements in the format of 32650?

HKJ · 2018-10-05T14:41:36.000Z

I have not seen anything high current in 32650 size, probably because they have trouble getting rid of heat.
For high current the best sizes are probably 18650, 20650, 20700 and 21700, both because they have larger surface compared to capacity (Better heat dissipation) and because the main development are on these sizes.

Barkuti · 2018-10-05T16:09:51.000Z

A battery pack meant for an electric vehicle does not necessarily needs to be of top discharge rate. It depends on the minimum discharge time you aim to subject your pack to. For a bicycle a 3Kg battery pack can be made of inexpensive, standard PLB INR26650-50A or INR26650-55A cells (the cells rewrapped by LiitoKala and Shockli among others). A 10S3P pack would have a 36V 15/17Ah rating, with 50A discharge rate without losing effective capacity down to 2.5V, which at least is 32.5V × 50A = 1625W load adjusted out to the motor(s). This is more than enough power for a bicycle, I believe.

Cheers ( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ)

volchyonok · 2018-10-05T18:31:15.000Z

HKJ:

I have not seen anything high current in 32650 size, probably because they have trouble getting rid of heat.
For high current the best sizes are probably 18650, 20650, 20700 and 21700, both because they have larger surface compared to capacity (Better heat dissipation) and because the main development are on these sizes.

Thank you for this clarification about a more favorable surface area for elements with a smaller diameter, dear HKJ. Those tables in which you display your large and useful work for all people to study the behavior of a variety of batteries, I think the most convenient and sensible of all that I have ever seen.
Taking this opportunity, I would like to sincerely thank you for this painstaking and valuable work that you have been doing for many years, slowly complementing these lists with the results of new tests. Meanwhile, despite this, more and more newcomers appear about the batteries, about which we do not know anything, but their advertising at the same time looks very tempting. Perhaps this is not a battery, but some kind of junk, but here is another example of such “unidentified flying objects” - [quote=97.36€ |10 stücke 26980 3,7 v 6000mAh Lithium batterie zelle hohe rate 15C Nicht 26650 3,7 v 5000mah 21700 für diy pack power EV AGV lampe roboter|Ersatzbatterien| - AliExpress]size 26980
[/quote]

You, by chance, do not plan to conduct your professional tests for them and then display the results in your table (26650)?
On the other hand, of course, their length is too large for a normal location inside the bicycle battery (the standard placement of the 26980 elements would make the battery too wide and protruding from the sides). However, their advertising is of interest to them, so it would be nice,
if your tables would also have results for these unusual items “26980”.

Barkuti:

A battery pack meant for an electric vehicle does not necessarily needs to be of top discharge rate. It depends on the minimum discharge time you aim to subject your pack to. For a bicycle a 3Kg battery pack can be made of inexpensive, standard PLB INR26650-55A cells (the cells rewrapped by LiitoKala and Shockli among others). A 10S3P pack would have a 36V 15/17Ah rating, with 50A discharge rate without losing effective capacity down to 2.5V, which at least is 32.5V × 50A = 1625W load adjusted out to the motor(s). This is more than enough power for a bicycle, I believe.

Since electric bikes have as many as two controllers for the voltage that disconnect the battery from the load-engine (one is in the battery itself, and the other is the power controller-regulator of the engine), high-current batteries are of most interest.
in which, when discharged during operation, after the voltage level of 3v, practically nothing more remains in their trunk with a capacity. That is, up to 3v they should be at a good voltage level at the same time with a high load current, and then their discharge line should drop sharply down (almost at an angle of 90 degrees) to the “2,5v” mark and there will be a minimum of energy in the remainder (aspire to 0 mAh).

I am planning on creating a 14S battery (51,8v). If I choose the elements of Golisi-4300mAh, then I can try to find a place for 14S x 3P (there is very little space in the frame of my bike). I like the Shockli-5500 (black) no less and they have more capacity, but it is possible that for some reason (commercial?) they have already been taken out of production, and today only remnants are sold, mixed from different lots into a big pile. This can lead to the fact that all Shockli-5500 will have a noticeably different internal resistance, and as a result a rapid deterioration in the overall battery balance.
I don’t know anything about PLB, but it’s still better to choose powerful I*MR current elements suitable for electronic cigarettes. How the IN*R elements deal with these tasks is not known to me.

BlueSwordM · 2018-10-05T18:42:30.000Z

@volchyonok, I’ve seen that cell before. It’s really interesting to see customs sizes surging in the market, like the 38120 LiFePO4 cell that was starting to be offered a while back used, and still have extremely low internal resistance.

The 26980 though looks huge. I have no problem believing it can sustain continuously 50-60A continuously with a capacity of 6Ah.

HKJ · 2018-10-05T18:46:18.000Z

volchyonok:

You, by chance, do not plan to conduct your professional tests for them and then display the results in your table (26650)?
On the other hand, of course, their length is too large for a normal location inside the bicycle battery (the standard placement of the 26980 elements would make the battery too wide and protruding from the sides). However, their advertising is of interest to them, so it would be nice,

My normal test are limited to 70mm long cells and 30A, if I see a good reason I can go much higher, but for suggestions for tests I also have to look at the price of the cells, generally I have to pay for them. There are a lot of exception to that, some manufacturer are donating cells for testing and it will always help if people (i.e. my readers) ask them to donate cells to me

volchyonok · 2018-10-05T20:33:25.000Z

BlueSwordM:

I’ve seen that cell before. It’s really interesting to see customs sizes surging in the market, like the 38120 LiFePO4 cell that was starting to be offered a while back used, and still have extremely low internal resistance.

Regarding the iron-phosphate elements, I can say that they do not suit me, because for the battery I have already bought bms for lithium-ion batteries, which have 4.2v (3.6v or 3.7v). Regarding the constant rise in prices, I can answer that it needs to be said “many thanks” to the current owner of the dollar (:money_mouth_face:, the growth rate of which is often created from scratch and has no adequate soil for this. Many have already understood that modern leaders of different countries see the development of the economy not in the growth of production, but in a simple increase in prices for almost everything. That is, they do not create the economy, but make inflation.

BlueSwordM:

The 26980 though looks huge. I have no problem believing it can sustain continuously 50-60A continuously with a capacity of 6Ah.

Until we see real results on different current loads from a professional appraiser of HKJ elements, we can only guess what these 26980 are and what it really is. If you start surfing the internet looking for such items in 26980 other stores, then you can meet exactly the same elements of 26980 6000mAh, but with a completely different characteristic for the “C” discharge. For example, they may be marked not as “15C”, but as “3C”. How can this be, if in appearance they are exactly the same, including the color of the case and the negative conclusion partially protruding outside? Somewhere it says “10C” or “5C”.
That is, whoever wants, he will write as much or, after all, is it true about the ability to withstand current shocks of 60 amperes?

HKJ:

My normal test are limited to 70mm long cells and 30A

In principle, tests up to 30 amps can be considered quite sufficient and very informative, moreover, given the suitability of the elements for powerful electric motors, where several parallel “P” are used in each cell.

So, for example, when from the HKJ tables we see that if a single element heats up, but it successfully copes with its main task (in this case there will be several elements in parallel in our battery in each cell), then we get an excellent and powerful battery because as a result, the internal resistance and heating will be several times less. Moreover, in addition, the capacity of such a jar will be greater.

Barkuti · 2018-10-06T03:20:52.000Z

volchyonok:

…

I am planning on creating a 14S battery (51,8v). If I choose the elements of Golisi-4300mAh, then I can try to find a place for 14S x 3P (there is very little space in the frame of my bike). I like the Shockli-5500 (black) no less and they have more capacity, but it is possible that for some reason (commercial?) they have already been taken out of production, and today only remnants are sold, mixed from different lots into a big pile. This can lead to the fact that all Shockli-5500 will have a noticeably different internal resistance, and as a result a rapid deterioration in the overall battery balance.

…

What is the total maximum power your bicycle motors will pull? As I said before, the Shockli (Power Long Battery) cells should work nicely. I see no point in using Golisi 4300mAh (true rating 30A continuous, probably the overrated Yodeli 26650 4300 40A rewrapped) cells unless you aim to set up some absurdly high powered bicycle or a very small battery pack, in which case I'd go with 18650s or 21700s.

Power Long Battery is manufacturing these cells for electric vehicles among other things, but of course I do not know how much will the cells last. If you aim for a durable battery pack I'd recommend choosing Samsung cells, they seem to be life cycle champions (related review: Bench Test Results: Which lasts longer? VTC6, 30Q, or HG2? @ E-CigaretteForum).

volchyonok:

…

I don’t know anything about PLB, but it’s still better to choose powerful I*+M+*R current elements suitable for electronic cigarettes. How the I*+N+*R elements deal with these tasks is not known to me.

¿IMR? Sorry to say volchyonok, but as many others you've been mislead by false advertising. There are nearly no true IMR cells being commercialized right now, that chemistry is outdated. Check this article: Battery chemistry FINALLY explained @ BATTERYbro.

Do you believe the Golisi IMR26650 4300mAh is really IMR (LiMn₂O₄, Li-manganese)? FALSE advertising. LIES.

Do you believe the Shockli IMR26650 5500mAh is IMR? FALSE advertising again. LIES. The PLB 26650 5500mAh is a NiCoMn (NMC - INR) cell.

Most modern cells are LiNiMnCoO₂ (NMC - INR), LiNiCoAlO₂ (NCA), LiNiCoO₂ (NCO) or maybe some other top brand secret recipe.

The LG HB6 is likely to be a true IMR cell, pretty low capacity too.

If you want a lightweight and powerful battery pack the best option probably is to make it with top brand cells (Samsung, Sony, Panasonic or LG). And as I've said before, if you need to power around 1000W of electric motors my above solution was already more than enough. Remember I've used conservative figures for my calculations, the pack above is even more powerful and if you go 14S3P it will provide over the top power if required. And remember, for accurate power output figures you need to substract loaded cells' voltage drop. Average nominal voltages (3.7/3.6V) are only seen at very low loads.

If you go with the PLB 5500mAh cells in 14S3P my conservative average sustained power output figure would be 45.5V × 50A = 2275W, with a maximum average sustained power output figure of 44.8V × 60A = 2688W.

Hope you can sort of understand this, it seems there's some language barrier.

Cheers :-)

Boro · 2018-10-06T03:34:15.000Z

Barkuti, Another informative post by you, thanks!

volchyonok · 2018-10-06T06:31:14.000Z

Barkuti:

What is the total maximum power your bicycle motors will pull?

Mak 1000W (1500W) https://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j10sAmtkJHBLQcT/Mac-Latest-100mm-110mm-Front-M.jpg

Barkuti:

As I said before, the Shockli (Power Long Battery) cells should work nicely.

Elements Shockli IMR26650 5500mAh-black is disguised elements from PLB INR26650-55A? Did the Shockli IMR26650 5250mAh-green, this also the original disguised from PLB (50A-5000mAh), or did this 5250-version of Shockli take it from another manufacturer?

Barkuti:

I see no point in using Golisi 4300mAh

Of course, Golisi 4300mAh-Gold will lose in terms of mAh and, accordingly, the maximum distance covered during the trip. But, according to the results and graphs of HKJ, they behave quite steadily at high load currents compared to the absolute majority of batteries from other manufacturers.
However now when you introduced us to the manufacturer of PLB, I lack the graphic data of bit characteristics from our famous researcher in the world of autonomous power sources - HKJ. I became interested in these PLBs (I liked the discharge curves of version 50A-5000mAh more), but where are the PLB-50A and PLB-55A results in the HKJ tables, which will allow to compare their characteristics with all other participants and direct competitors? If PLB-50A \ 55-A are so good, then why the PLB manufacturer itself is not interested in providing its elements to the well-known HKJ for the sake of its own benefit and successful promotion of its unfamiliar elements in the market. Yes, PLB maker has already shown us its own discharge graphs. But, why are they so small and poorly distinguishable for review and comparison? Why are pictures so dull and uninformative that are so important for making a purchase decision?
https://www.powerlongbattery.com/Content/ue/net/upload1/Other/31531/6360980322031489824761548.jpg
https://www.powerlongbattery.com/Content/ue/net/upload1/Other/31531/6360981837394597488448928.jpg

Barkuti:

cells unless you aim to set up some absurdly high powered bicycle or a very small battery pack, in which case I’d go with 18650s or 21700s.

Power Long Battery is manufacturing these cells for electric vehicles among other things, but of course I do not know how much will the cells last. If you aim for a durable battery pack I’d recommend choosing Samsung cells, they seem to be life cycle champions (related review: Bench Test Results: Which lasts longer? VTC6, 30Q, or HG2? @ E-CigaretteForum).

I also like the form factor 21700, so for now it’s hard to decide what to bet on - 3P-26650 or 4P-21700. 18650 I don’t want to consider at all, because I think that for high currents they are, all the same, too thin. The thing is, that batteries with their internal resistance are not ordinary passive resistors with their own rules about resistance. Elements are active chemical reactors with their own character for each, so you should not look at them just as we do according to the usual rules for resistors. Therefore, it is better to have a smaller number of large elements in each bank than a large number of small elements.

Barkuti:

¿IMR? Sorry to say volchyonok, but as many others you’ve been mislead by false advertising.

Well, let it be INR or with some other designation, but for me and for many other people it will be even better if we can evaluate their bit characteristics in the most convenient and competent HKJ-tables ( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ)

JasonWW · 2018-10-06T06:46:26.000Z

Volchyonok, 26650 are not made by any of the 4 big manufacturers so they will never match the power density of the 18650, 20700, 21700. If it did, we would have 26650 with 7,000mah. That Power Long battery (Shockli 5500mah and KeepPower 6000) with about 5750mah seems to be the closest so far. So if power density is important to you I would stick with the smaller cells.

volchyonok · 2018-10-06T23:27:21.000Z

Are these real PLBs or just very similar elements? :arrow_right: [quote=Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com]INR26650-50A
[/quote]

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/INR26650-50A-3-6V-5000mAh-li_60697838847.html:

INR26650-50A

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-6V-26650-NiCoMn-NCM-INR26650_60741849375.html:

INR26650-50A

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/INR26650-55A-3-6V-5500mAh-lithium_60696273969.html:

INR26650-55A 3.6V 5500mAh

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/INR26650-50A-3-6V-5000mAh-li_60697838847.html:

INR26650-50A 3.6V 5000mAh

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-6V-26980-6000mAh-Lithium-Battery_60729304966.html:

JasonWW:

Volchyonok, 26650 are not made by any of the 4 big manufacturers so they will never match the power density of the 18650, 20700, 21700. If it did, we would have 26650 with 7,000mah.

[quote=https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-New-Battery-For-Panasonic-26650A-3-7V-5000mAh-High-Capacity-26650-Li-ion-Rechargeable/32424879821.html?spm=a2g0v.search0604.3.1.6d1e3fc1pMjRsC&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_204_10843_318_10059_10884_10887_10696_100031_10084_10083_10103_452_10618_10304_10307_10820_532_10301,searchweb201603_60,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=757d6124-280e-417d-87f4-944f9d0a697b-0&algo_pvid=757d6124-280e-417d-87f4-944f9d0a697b&priceBeautifyAB=0] :question:
[/quote]

[quote=https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2-100-Panasonic-26650A-3-7-5000/32867198643.html?spm=a2g0v.search0604.3.46.6d1e3fc1pMjRsC&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_3_10065_10068_204_10843_318_10059_10884_10887_10696_100031_10084_10083_10103_452_10618_10304_10307_10820_532_10301%2Csearchweb201603_60%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=943338a8-2ebb-4f60-a481-2141f53ba95e&priceBeautifyAB=0&algo_expid=943338a8-2ebb-4f60-a481-2141f53ba95e-6] :question:
[/quote]

Barkuti · 2018-10-07T00:06:36.000Z

volchyonok:

Are these real PLBs or just very similar elements? :arrow_right: https://aliexpress.com/item/26650-5000-inr26650-50A-5000-26650-Li-ion-3-7/32844814518.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/INR26650-50A-3-6V-5000mAh-li_60697838847.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/INR26650-55A-3-6V-5500mAh-lithium_60696273969.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/INR26650-50A-3-6V-5000mAh-li_60697838847.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-6V-26980-6000mAh-Lithium-Battery_60729304966.html :FACEPALM:

Had to fix your link mess, please use the link button to post links (button with globe and two chain links or just two chain links), do not quote.

Those cells look like the real thing, of course for as long as the providers are trustworthy.

In AliExpress you may have more luck if you search for "LiitoKala 26650" or "LiitoKala Lii-50A", sometimes really good sales arise (much lower price than the first link you posted).

If you can buy in alibaba reliably it could be a nice option. I see you found 55A cells.

volchyonok:

…

JasonWW:

Volchyonok, 26650 are not made by any of the 4 big manufacturers so they will never match the power density of the 18650, 20700, 21700. If it did, we would have 26650 with 7,000mah.

https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/100-Original-New-Battery-For-Panasonic-26650A-3-7V-5000mAh-High-Capacity-26650-Li-ion-Rechargeable/32424879821.html

https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2-100-Panasonic-26650A-3-7-5000/32867198643.html

:???:

100% FAKES. Panasonic actually made a low capacity 26650 long ago. Nothing of interest for you I'd say.

Cheers ^:)

JasonWW · 2018-10-07T05:23:58.000Z

volchyonok:

Are these real PLBs or just very similar elements?

Why would you want the 5000mah? They will not give you the best high drain performance, if that is what you truly want.

JasonWW:

I did some research on 26650 high drain batteries not long ago:

JasonWW:

Here is another question I was trying to figure out. We know a single 70.2 can pull upwards of 18 amps from a pair of 26650, but what kind of limits would we see trying to power 3 of those emitters?

I looked at the tried and true cyan Liitokala 5000mah (2016), but I don’t think they sell those anymore. The black version is still sold and looks like a good performer. 20A continous and 30A pulse.

The Shockli 5500mah black is a newer battery (2017) and it looks like it is a step up. It’s still 20A continous and 30A pulse. Compared to the Liitokala black it has about 0.10 volt less sag at 20A and about 0.15 volt less sag at 30A.

I’m just learning there is a new Shockli 4300mah (2018) light green that looks aimed at even higher drain use. It is 30A continous and 40A pulse. Compared to the Liitokala black it has about 0.13 volt less sag at 20A and about 0.2 to 0.25 volt less sag at 30A. That’s a huge improvement. This looks to be the cell to use for highest performance.

If anyone has heard of any other new 26650 high drains, let me know.

Edit: It looks like the Ijoy INR26650 4200mAh (Black-Yellow) is a match for it.

The highest drain 26650 might be the Golisi IMR26650 4300mAh (Gold) at 35A continous. Wow.

The Golisi blows away the Shockli 5500mah and Liitokala 5000mah black.

Note: This is all data from HKJ.

So as far as whether you should use 3P 26650 or 4P 21700, you could go either way. 3 of the best 26650 should be pretty equal to 4 Samsung 30T.

The net volume of the containers are equal.

Barkuti · 2018-10-07T04:57:09.000Z

OMG JasonWW, volchyonok does not need the highest drain batteries he aims to build a decently big battery pack for a twin 500W engines powered bicycle. A 14S3P pack made with PLB cells is already plenty powerful enough for 1000W of electric motors plus electronic speed controllers, computer and whatever such setup may need additionally. He is probably russian, newbie in the forum and does not seem to communicate very well in english. Hope he doesn't gets even more confused with all of that. :facepalm:

Given his power requirements the best energy density to weight option for him would be a 14S6P pack made with high capacity/medium drain cells like NCR18650GA, LG MJ1/M36 or Samsung 35E cells, of course imho.

Cheers :-)

JasonWW · 2018-10-07T05:22:18.000Z

Yeah, most people use high capacity cells, like Tesla, for the most range and it can still provide plenty of raw power due to high number of cells. I don’t think he needs the highest drain.

But he asked for the highest drain. Lol

Barkuti · 2018-10-07T08:27:18.000Z

By the way, those 26980 cells volchyonok posted look rather interesting: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-6V-26980-6000mAh-Lithium-Battery_60729304966.html

≈50% longer than 26650s, this certainly improves the surface to volume cell ratios. But they certainly need to be rather good cells to stand a chance against PLB 50A/55As. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Cheers :-)

JasonWW · 2018-10-07T08:38:06.000Z

Yeah, they are only 6000mah, though. Either they are high drain/low capacity or else below standard. If it had the same chemical mix as the Shockli 5500mah, the mah should be closer to 8000-8500mah.

That would make for a great flashlight battery.