Test/review of Vapcell INR21700 5000mAh (Purple) 2018

ZoomieFan · 2018-12-14T06:39:54.000Z

shadockan:

True ZoomieFan.
But think about this:

A company that does not say what battery it uses can cause a serious accident to the user who will rely on what the cover says.
Even more Amperes are listed on the cover that can discharge a battery if I know what the manufacturer says, I will use the battery with the data reported by the manufacturer.

I do not need to mention older bad situations that we all have seen on a video or even a personal level ……

Sure. My post was just a short statement. No in depth discussion.
I 100% agree there are very bad cells that are not even worth looking at. Everyone reading HKJ’s tests know that.

My point is/was: Sanyo, Samsung, and a few others make very good cells.
The company could have advised those cells.
Rewarpping a Sanyo doesn’t improve its quality somehow.

shadockan · 2018-12-14T06:43:58.000Z

ZoomieFan:

shadockan:

True ZoomieFan.
But think about this:

A company that does not say what battery it uses can cause a serious accident to the user who will rely on what the cover says.
Even more Amperes are listed on the cover that can discharge a battery if I know what the manufacturer says, I will use the battery with the data reported by the manufacturer.

I do not need to mention older bad situations that we all have seen on a video or even a personal level ……

Sure. My post was just a short statement. No in depth discussion.
I 100% agree there are very bad cells that are not even worth looking at. Everyone reading HKJ’s tests know that.

My point is/was: Sanyo, Samsung, and a few others make very good cells.
The company could have advised those cells.
Rewarpping a Sanyo doesn’t improve its quality somehow.

Exactly my friend …

ZoomieFan · 2018-12-14T07:06:50.000Z

shadockan:

I think ZoomieFan means … less revenue for the rewrap company.
If I know which battery is, why should I get the rewrap?

That’s what I think it means.

Exactly. More brands means a bigger chance to find a good deal

He’s right … if he means that …

He does.

But it’s rare to copy a rewrap company …

Not copying the rewrap (Vapcell) company.
Just Vapcell rewrapping Sanyo and then sell it as their own. That way they make some cash instead of only Sanyo.

I do not see a gain as opposed to the profit it will have if I copied an authentic battery …

I can imagine there is a profit in it. Numbers as a way of explanation.
Sanyo sells cells for $2/each.
A famous company rewarps them, adds some marketing claims and sells then for $10/each.
Then a copycat rewraps the Sanyo’s with the same wrap and sells them for $5/each.

Or even more illegal, buy junk batteries at $0.50/each and then rewrap and cell as something good and famous.

shadockan · 2018-12-14T07:43:09.000Z

Dennis I have experience similar to what you wrote.
I bought authentic batteries … and it was only authentic as a name.

This is the problem.
I use long enough authentic … but also rewrap batteries.
Many times I buy rewrap to avoid monkey batteries …, knowing of course exactly what battery I buy ……
That’s why I do not mind if she writes Sanyo or Vapcell the cover …

ZoomieFan …
I do not disagree with you …
Just copy a copy, I do not think it’s the best if you want to sell ….

Vapcell, Enercig, Keeppower, Orbtronic, Fenix, AW, Redilast …… and others are all companies that put different batteries under their covers …
Mostly from good battery manufacturers.
These companies do not consider them the same value as some others … that we all know …. No need for names I believe …

Vapcell, for some time now, seems to want to show the world her good face.
For me, this is absolutely positive.

In the past I have been fighting with some company rewrap here.
The reason was that he tried to fool us that he was making batteries, and many people from here in our hands had our batteries, we opened them and we mentioned that it is the Samsung 25R.

How can I now trust such a company?
On Enercig, I will give confidence because on top of her covers or even on the company’s website if you get in, you will see that in many batteries it has original covers and has just placed a card in the battery with its name.
So I know from the beginning what I will buy …

That’s what I liked and what Dennis wrote ….
The truth …

shadockan · 2018-12-14T07:41:11.000Z

vapcell Dennis:

ZoomieFan:

shadockan:

I think ZoomieFan means … less revenue for the rewrap company.
If I know which battery is, why should I get the rewrap?

That’s what I think it means.

Exactly. More brands means a bigger chance to find a good deal

He’s right … if he means that …

He does.

But it’s rare to copy a rewrap company …

Not copying the rewrap (Vapcell) company.
Just Vapcell rewrapping Sanyo and then sell it as their own. That way they make some cash instead of only Sanyo.

I do not see a gain as opposed to the profit it will have if I copied an authentic battery …

I can imagine there is a profit in it. Numbers as a way of explanation.
Sanyo sells cells for $2/each.
A famous company rewarps them, adds some marketing claims and sells then for $10/each.
Then a copycat rewraps the Sanyo’s with the same wrap and sells them for $5/each.

Or even more illegal, buy junk batteries at $0.50/each and then rewrap and cell as something good and famous.

Haha, this is too exaggerated.

Distributors know what batteries are made and can only operate at a small profit.

The market is transparent.

As a result, fewer and fewer rewarp batteries will appear in the market in the future.

After all, reprocessing also consumes processing costs.

In a transparent market, it is not dominant. :person_facepalming:

Dennis ……
Remember the Gearbest rewrap batteries of the AWT ….
There were AWT batteries and AWT rewrap rewrap batteries.

There are many more ………….

Pajda_cz · 2018-12-14T08:17:42.000Z

vapcell Dennis:

vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，sanyo NCR21700A rewarpped， the same battery

I am quite sure that Dennis means vapcell 21700 5000mah 15A = sanyo NCR21700A rewrapped. Vapcell 21700 5000mAh 10A are based on LG or Samsung cells.

Pajda_cz · 2018-12-14T08:58:43.000Z

vapcell Dennis:

Vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，LG M50 rewarpped

Yeah, all Vapcell cells are definitelly rewarpped love english

Tom_E · 2018-12-14T13:23:09.000Z

vapcell Dennis:

Pajda cz:

vapcell Dennis:

vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，sanyo NCR21700A rewarpped， the same battery

I am quite sure that Dennis means vapcell 21700 5000mah 15A = sanyo NCR21700A rewrapped. Vapcell 21700 5000mAh 10A are based on LG or Samsung cells.

Yeah，you are great Vapcell 21700 5000mah 10A ，LG M50 rewarpped

Ok, I certainly understand better why rewraps are important. For example SONY does not like their cells being sold individually, outside a complete pack.

And I guess Dennis has to be as clear as mud about what this cell is a rewrap of. But no matter how you rewrap it, it's barely 15A, probably rated lower by the original manufacturer, and certainly never meets it's rated capacity. The droppage of capacity between 0.2A and 5A has me a little concerned, but for a lower performing cell, maybe it's more common.

At this point, I regret buying this one piece and won't be buying again. It won't keep me from buying Vapcells though, because I'm very pleased with many of their other offerings, like the rewrapped VTC5D. Bottom line though through testing like what HKJ does here, we can positively identify the good rewraps if all variants are tested.

Agro · 2018-12-14T13:45:47.000Z

Except that you still risk that at the time of your purchase the wrapped cell is different from the one reviewed. And even if its not…how can you know if the next batch the rewrapper got was of the same grade?

Tom_E · 2018-12-14T14:44:58.000Z

Agro:

Except that you still risk that at the time of your purchase the wrapped cell is different from the one reviewed. And even if its not…how can you know if the next batch the rewrapper got was of the same grade? :person_facepalming:

Well the best thing to do is buy from a known good reseller like Liionwholesale.com - his support is phenomenal, and tests every batch that he gets in. I always will prefer buying cells from him based on availability and price (reasonable that is). imrbatteries.com is also good, personally don't know if their support is as good though.

But as mentioned before, you could be at as much risk buying a rewrap or branded cell - dunno if the branded cell is a fake or recycled as well.

Tom_E · 2018-12-18T12:00:34.000Z

vapcell Dennis:

Thank you very much for your understanding and support. Refer to the KHJ test vapcell 21700 5000mAh 15A, he said that discharge to 2.5V may reach 5000mah. But it needs to be noted that this is a high-power battery, you can compare HG2, VTC6, the voltage is not inferior. It may be less than 5,000 mah, but it’s important that high voltage platforms, discharged to 3.2V, can get more capacity.

He discharges to 2.8V, not 3.2V, and the difference between 2.5V and 2.8V is typically very small. His conclusion is: "This cell is a good cell for large capacity and can deliver a fair amount of current without being a high current cell."

You call it high-power, he calls it not a high current cell. Again, the way my Vapcell 21700 performs, where it drops voltage immediately off the charger implies there's a problem with the cell. If this was a heavily used cell, I'd get rid of it. Again, I have no other Vapcell 21700 to compare it with and I won't spend the money on any more to find out.

I'm hoping if any other owners can report if there's behaves the same or not - does it drop well below 4.20V after a charge, in a few minutes, next day?

toobadorz · 2018-12-18T16:33:58.000Z

Tom E:

I’m hoping if any other owners can report if there’s behaves the same or not - does it drop well below 4.20V after a charge, in a few minutes, next day?

I also own two of this cell (I think this should be Sanyo NCR21700A, the 21700 cell used by Tesla). My answer is, yes, the voltage of this cell does drop below 4.20V within 1 hour, especially after a few cycles of use. But I also found similar drops on Sanyo NCR18650GA, so I regard this as a normal phenomenon.

This cell performs noticeably better than its competitors (5000mAh 21700 cells, Samsung 50E and LG M50), even when all of them have been cycled for a few times.

But, I don’t like the recessed top of this cell, because that introduces quite some more resistance in flashlights since the springs cannot be fully compressed. I must add a 2mm thick copper pillar to compensate this, otherwise its performance in some flashlights will be even worse than Samsung 50E, LG M50, while it should be better. With that copper pillar, it indeed performs better than the other 5000mAh 21700 cells. However, adding that copper pillar can be dangerous in some flashlights — it can cause short circuit! One of my cell died immediately because of that. Vapcell really should add a new top to this cell, otherwise, it is not that useful.

Tom_E · 2018-12-18T16:39:54.000Z

True, I do see this behavior with my GA's but not as pronounced. I'll need to try it for a couple more cycles. Thanx though! good to hear other experiences.

I stopped buying GA's though because of this. The 35E's seem to do better, but may be because they are newer now, not sure.

Agro · 2018-12-19T08:16:18.000Z

vapcell Dennis:

Agro:

Except that you still risk that at the time of your purchase the wrapped cell is different from the one reviewed. And even if its not…how can you know if the next batch the rewrapper got was of the same grade? :person_facepalming:

We always choose good batteries for our customers.

The words on the battery steel can will not be removed, so that customers can check the batch grade easily.

Thanks for the info, that’s useful to know.

SubLGT · 2019-05-04T15:49:14.000Z

Tom E:

Thanks HKJ! This cell is a strange one - it does under perform, as expected, compared to the high amp cells. But I'm seeing some odd behavior in the charger. I set my SkyRC MC3000 to charge to 4.22V, so when I take the cells off, usually they read at 4.21 or 4.20V. For this VapCell 5000, it takes a long time to get to the 4.22V level, longer than any other new 18650 or 21700 cell I have, but some old cells behave this way. Then once fully charged, it drops fast - luckily if I can get it off the charger above 4.18V. In fact the first time, I pulled it off, measured at 4.18V, then the next day just sitting on the bench, it measured 4.13V. I have to see if this droppage is consistent - maybe it's a first time issue.

It's weird you measured such a low resistance - usually low resistance and high amps go together. Also capacity is lower than the rating even at a 0.2 amp draw.

So far to me, mine has characteristics of an old cell - hope I didn't get a bad one. I only bought one as well so can't compare it.

This may be related to quality issues at Tesla'a gigafactory.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122728_report-tesla-panasonic-battery-waste-could-lead-to-battery-flaws

A report by Business Insider, quoting three current and former employees, says that the company scraps enough material to make half a million batteries per day, out of the 3 million cells it sends to Tesla daily.

On its face, that level of waste might be appalling. But to insiders who understand battery production, it's a sign of even bigger problems, according to the report. One of the main reasons for the waste is that material to produce the cells, from lithium-hydroxide solution to machine rollers, gets contaminated too frequently.

Like other battery manufacturing operations, Panasonic's facility at Tesla's Gigafactory in Sparks, Nevada, operates a cleanroom environment, where employees are required to wear special "bunny suits" to prevent hair, lint, body oils, or other substances from contaminating the battery materials.

The current and former employees told Business Insider of examples of scissors, tools, and a roll of tape falling into vats of chemicals being mixed into battery electrodes. "Why do we throw away half a million batteries a day? Because people are slobs and the stuff's not clean," said one former employee.

Tom_E · 2019-05-31T23:02:41.000Z

Interesting, but still would like to buy a Tesla someday...

thendless · 2021-05-07T15:57:40.000Z

I am thinking of making a bulk order of these from Vapcell. Just wondering what thoughts are with rewraps and if I will get cells remotely the same since the review is over 2 years old?

Sunnysunsun · 2021-05-07T16:01:41.000Z

Vapcell has been kinda sketchy lately with their Chinese rewrapped cells. Lots of ones with high self discharge arriving dead. I wouldn’t do it. Stick with samsungs or even listens if you need 5000mAh. Monocle P42As at 4200mA are really good if you don’t need the capacity.

thendless · 2021-05-07T16:09:58.000Z

Ya I was eyeing the Lishen 5000 or 4500. The only thing that has been holding me back on those cells is I can’t find any long term experiences with them after 100 or so cycles.

Sunnysunsun · 2021-05-07T16:12:06.000Z

What’s your use case? They’re pretty cheap and Chinese cells have been improving in quality over the years. Do note that the listens are larger in diameter, 21.9mm or so iirc