About the topic of what is or is not a thrower, the measurement to look for is cd/lm. Simply take the light’s candela value and divide it by the lumens, and the resulting number measures how floody or throwy the beam is.
Here are some reference points to understand what the number means:
0.1 cd / lm: light bulb
0.3 to 1.0: mule
3.2: Emisar D4 / KR4 Nichia 219c
4.1: Emisar D4 / KR4 XP-G2
4.3: Emisar DT8 219B
4.5: Noctigon Meteor M43 XP-G2
4.7: Emisar D4 / KR4 XP-L HI
5.2: BLF A6
6.6: Emisar D4S 219C
7: ZL SC52
9.9: Emisar DT8 W2
10: ZL SC600 III
10.4: Emisar D4S XP-L HI
~12: FW1A XP-L HD
13.8: Emisar D4S SST-20
22?: Emisar D4S W2
33 cd/lm: Emisar D1 XP-L HI
35: Fenix TK75
37: BLF X6v2 XP-L HI
66: Convoy C8 XP-L HI
77: Emisar D1 / KR1 W2
100: Emisar D1S XP-L HI
122: Emisar D1 / KR1 W1
140: relatively good SK-68
488: BLF GT
655: Jax Z1 w/ dedomed XP-G2
685: Noctigon K1 W1
1600: Saabluster DEFT-X
10,000+ cd / lm: laser
Lights which get roughly 3 to 15 cd/lm are ideal for general-purpose use. The 20 to 80 range is sort of a wide or mid-range thrower. Anything 100+ is more of a dedicated thrower. These categories are all very approximate, not any sort of official definition or anything.
Anyway, the lights I use most are:
A KR4 219B at ~4 cd/lm, for general-purpose stuff. It’s great up-close, with a beautiful beam and great color rendition, and a tail e-switch.
When I need to see farther, I use a KR1 W1 at ~122 cd/lm. It’s no good up-close, but it can go about as far as I ever need.
Sometimes a D4S XP-L HI or 1st-batch* FW1A XP-L HD (10 to 12 cd/lm) for mid-range stuff like night-time walks.
I’m still waiting for Hank to make a compact single-emitter ~12 cd/lm light, like a Noctigon version of the ZL SC64 or Olight S2 or FW1A. I don’t know if he’ll ever do it, because it wouldn’t be overpowered like his usual items… but I hope he will some day.
* Later FW1A batches were massively downgraded. Not recommended.
I’ve noticed that a lot, same with “flood.” Seems like 2-3 years now, might be a spillover from reddit where there are so many new to the hobby and really don’t know stuff well yet. People making up new terms a lot and disregarding some established ones/definitions, too. There are always outliers that blur the lines a bit but I think some of this may have started with the big shift toward compact hosts and all the variation there. Plus the plethora of drop in optics to choose from that let people fine tune the beam a little. It’s kinda irritating, though, and probably more confusing to new folks when a wide beam or a balanced beam gets described as throwy…or the balanced beam as floody.
Basically I moved to the mountains in the south and have vast overlook and fire tower points to climb and shine.
Also there are a lot of numbers and LED types and terms that are way above my knowledge lol
Different people have very different ideas about what a balanced beam is, or what counts as floody and throwy. So I find it easier to just use the cd/lm value whenever possible.
I’ve talked with people who describe 30 cd/lm as “balanced” or even “floody”, while others have described 8 cd/lm as “throwy”. So they don’t seem like very useful terms in an absolute sense… only in a relative sense, like “A is more throwy than B”. It’s easier to say than “A has more cd/lm than B, and here’s what cd and lm and cd/lm mean”.
I’m tempted to put a W1 into my Z1 some day. I had it out this morning even, and was using its optic to look at the XP-G2 up close. It’s a pretty sloppy de-doming, and the beam is … not great. A W1 would be a pretty big improvement.
OTOH, I almost never use it, so I’m not sure I actually need to upgrade it again.
A nicer driver could be good though. I have a 1-channel attiny13 driver in it, with Crescendo, and it makes for a very bumpy ramp at the bottom end. Also, for that type of driver, I think I’ve decided I prefer my old “S7” firmware over Crescendo… so I should probably reflash it sometime. That’s fairly easy to do.
But again, I almost never use it. It only comes out when there’s fog (hooray for flow arts with an actual saber of light!), or when the owl won’t stop hooting on my bedroom roof while I’m trying to sleep.
Re-posting old pic to show how the beam looks in mild fog or smoke. It’s even more fun in thick fog.
I get the classic/conventional/standard/accepted/whatever you want to call it, definition of a thrower. At least I think I do. Narrow beam, big smooth reflector/narrow tir, high cd to lumen ratio, etc, I gotcha.
Wasn’t suggesting a dt8 was going to be a thrower. Didn’t think anyone would think that I was suggesting that, it’s so clearly not the standard definition of one. I just went off on a w2 tangent.
In hindsight, i do see why you mightve thought I was suggesting that, given title of this thread is literally “thrower”…But like what even are titles, you know? Labels man.
Still, if you have a host that isn’t setup for max throw and reflectors that arent setup for max throw, but you put a ton of emitters in there and crank it high enough to where it ends up having more throw than some smaller throwers…that light can throw. It’s not a thrower… but she can throw. You know?
Not a piercing beam of light but so MUCH light that it reaches out.
Supercharged light.
You have to look close to see the water tower but it IS catching some light… 1.9 miles away! This is the GT94… not really a thrower with its quad 90.2 set up but brute forcing it downrange anyway.
I am not really impressed with 4 90.2’s but at the same time, ya kinda have to be… ya know?
You can reach out and touch someone 5km away with 500lm. that will put a grin on ya face I tells ya. With a 90cm searchlight mirror and 100w hid you can stretch that to 15km. With the same reflector and a COB it will still throw 4-5km. Distances I chase now are just stupid. Well I can’t really chase anything most of the muscle in my legs doesn’t work any more.
I was just replying more generally to Dale’s comment, not you personally or anything specifically in this thread. Seems like it’s rampant on reddit but has crept into BLF more recently as well. Titles, labels…definitions…communication, understanding.
I’ve always thought of it more as beam shaping rather than largeness (or not) of components, but of course those are generally proportional to each other and generally larger goes longer with the right recipe. But TK gives a good alternate perception above, too, with the more technical basic measurement aspects. I think a lot of folks would have a hard time calling an over-amped multi-emitter broad-beam light a thrower even if it’s reaching some distance that would put it on par with more efficient single-emitter throwers…they’re just different lights. Pencil beam or something with a little more corona, even a little spill, still fits as “thrower” but generally the later two are very minimized in order to achieve the intensity/distance, right? Efficiency to achieve a goal using similar power input rather than upping the ante toooo much to where practical use becomes questionable in terms of power source and heat. And then there’s Dale’s bruteness.
Oh no I didn’t think you were. I was just trying to reply to everyone your comment just happened to be the one I hit the reply button on.
Ya on one hand you can definitely say 4*sbt90s isn’t a thrower, even though they call it one, because comeon look at that wall of light. That’s so much flood. But then on the other hand, when you look at the specs and see 2500m throw…I mean that’s a lot of throw. The brute force thing is a good way of putting it
But Jeff, it’s perspectives… if the length of throw you need is met then it’s getting the job done. That’s one of the crazy things about this hobby… color, beam profile, power, all objective to the perspectives of the individual. And even to the particular need at a given time. What you’re doing determines what you need, well hell, I just convinced myself I need more lights!
Me, I like small size and long runtime, so I go for efficiency (like a narrow beam) in my throwers instead of brute force (ALL the lumens!).
When I first got a D4, I had fun showing people turbo… or even just entertaining myself with it. But I ended up having to recharge the battery every day or so, to keep the wow factor up. Later though, I went back to using only as much light as I needed, and I found the battery would last me like a year. And I don’t need a full year per charge… so I’ve been wanting smaller lights when possible. Sure, maybe I’ll have to charge them every month or two, but that’s a fair tradeoff for me, in exchange for having something a fraction of the size.
… and for a mini pocket thrower like the D1 or KR1 in 18350 form, even a small battery lasts me a long time. I just don’t need the extra range very often, or for very long at a time. Even a 1000 mAh cell lasts me a year per charge.
OTOH, when I’m doing indoor photos, like for a review or something, I can use up 4x18650 in a single night. Energy drains fast when ceiling-bouncing 10,000 lumens for photo purposes. It’s a great use for brute-force lights.
Yes, I am a strong believer in using the right tool for the job at hand. I use that to rationalize the number of flashlights that I own. For taking the dog to a park that is wide open and maybe 350 meters at the longest dimension, a brute force type of light is preferable for scanning for critters before letting the dog go. Getting lots of light downrange is good, but lighting up 30% of the park with useable light is much better. Observing something that I know is there, maybe an owl in a tree, the sort of pencil beam thrower is better.
Then there is ease of carry and run time. In my yard, I simply don’t need anything more than what my TS10 can provide, or at most a Convoy S21D. Horses for courses…
I use the small, relatively efficient, light far more than any of my “throwers”. Even then, the difference between 1000 and 2000 meters of throw, is meaningless to me. I mean, I would need optics to see anything at those distances anyway.
Absolutely. If I implied otherwise I didn’t mean to.
Im in a phase right now where I’m just buying 1 of every emitter lol. Mostly in convoy’s so I don’t go totally broke. Just to see each one, because it’s true, you can spend hours watching reviews and looking at beamshots and reading datasheets and you have no idea what it’s going to look like in person.
I still look at the beamshots and the reviews and stuff though cuz it’s fun
