Ultimate LED Bulbs - Ultra High CRI - The Honorable Quest

fneuf · 2019-11-03T14:38:33.000Z

Ikea >> sub-90CRI seems not enough for our "Ulta High CRI" topic. But it's great that a "big name of house equipments" is putting CRI on its product. A good way to eduquate consumer in the long run. Do they offer better lines?

Philips >> GU10 CRI97 offering is great, for sure. Why don't they also make E27 bulbs out of it is a mystery. Maybe a double targetting bias, where GU10 is used to target shops/pro displays, whereas E27 is viewed as consumer only format, and consumer as deemed not interested in great CRI?

Airam >> Do you have tests or more detailled specs somewhere about this bulb?

LIDL >> claimed specs are interesting, but I can't help but being dubious about a CRI100 offering (who would/could be their manufacturer?). That is making me "scientifically doubt" about pretty much their other claims too, as a consequence. Other bias in my reasonments is that with those "white branded" products, the inside of the product could change with each production run. Any tests (and more precise references) somewhere ?

The "trick" with pretty much manufacturer claiming good/great CRI will fall under the CIE vs TM-30 measurements caveats. The common old CRI index is proven to be unfit to adequately qualify LEDs flux (too much pastel colors, not taking into account full spectrum, etc). That's why TM-30 is aiming to perfect that situation and that's why I've added from the start R9 (deep red), R12 (deep blue) and Rf (full spectrum) values.

A manufacturer can claim a great CRI value (so based only on R1-R8 values), but producing for instance "badish" results on R9 and R12. And as such giving a "meehish" render in our homes.

I've started to rebuild my table, with the BLF Bulb Quality factor™ proposal, you cand find it there.

Have to think a bit more about the proposal of Joshk for its scale.

djozz · 2019-11-03T21:03:29.000Z

IKEA Ledare, type LED1708R5.
A dimmable GU10 bulb that uses very warm leds at the lowest brightness setting and gets cooler tint at higher setting by gradually mixing in a cooler set of leds and switching off the warm set at the highest setting.

Lowest settings, just the warm leds:
CCT=2060, duv=+0.0012, CRI=93.6, R9=58, R12=98, Rf=93.2, Rg=96.8

An intermediate setting, some cooler light mixed in:
CCT=2450, duv=+0.0005, CRI=93.8, R9=60, R12=92, Rf=92.6, Rg=99.4

Highest settings, just the cooler set of leds, warm leds are off:
CCT=2640, duv=+0.0008, CRI=91.7, R9=54, R12=88, Rf=90.3, Rg=100.0

djozz · 2019-11-03T21:21:45.000Z

IKEA Ledare, type LED1521R6
A 2700K 90+CRI GU10 bulb, non-dimmable

CCT=2850, duv=+0.0014, CRI=91.9, R9=59, R12=83, Rf=91.0, Rg=99.9

Lexel · 2019-11-03T22:57:38.000Z

too bad all IKEA above BBL

djozz · 2019-11-03T23:21:37.000Z

Lexel:

too bad all IKEA above BBL

The newest insights are that (“western”?) people prefer the tint well under the BBL, which these bulbs are not, but they are only slightly above it, and I do not see an ugly tint.

fneuf · 2019-11-04T07:31:24.000Z

Really quick post. First, thanks for all your new test additions guys.

Then, here is the updated table, with a first run at ordering it:

Bob_McBob · 2019-11-04T02:22:53.000Z

Since there are so many measurements being posted, I just want to remind everyone you should allow LED bulbs to warm up for a while before testing because Duv tends to drop significantly.

staticx57 · 2019-11-04T02:31:32.000Z

djozz:

Talking about the blue peak, Luminus has brought a new 3030 led on the market that has the cyan gap filled up (or even made into a cyan peak) so that high CCT’s can be made with a lower blue peak. It is called Luminus “Salud”.

https://www.luminus.com/datasheets/Press_Release_Luminus_Salud_102819.pdf

Luminus : Salud Specialty Illumination SMD LEDs

I so want to try some of these

johnpc · 2019-11-04T03:13:49.000Z

Are there any good tube style replacements? I got a box of Hyperikon T8 bulbs that claim >= 90 CRI. They’re better than the fading florescents they replaced, but the PWM is noticeable sometimes.

maukka · 2019-11-04T06:27:18.000Z

djozz:

IKEA Ledare, type LED1708R5.
A dimmable GU10 bulb that uses very warm leds at the lowest brightness setting and gets cooler tint at higher setting by gradually mixing in a cooler set of leds and switching off the warm set at the highest setting.

Those look neat! I suppose flicker is obvious when used with a typical voltage chopping dimmer?

lightdecay · 2019-11-04T06:32:50.000Z

Bob_McBob:

Since there are so many measurements being posted, I just want to remind everyone you should allow LED bulbs to warm up for a while before testing because Duv tends to drop significantly.

How long does one need to wait? Does this also apply to flashlights?

maukka · 2019-11-04T06:39:07.000Z

High output bulbs with mediocre cooling tend to heat up to 70-100°C within an hour. Since home lighting is used for prolonged periods, I would usually wait at least 15-30 minutes before taking the measurements. Similar shift in tint goes for flashlights too, but they’re mostly used in shorter bursts and as such with less heat generated at the emitter.

djozz · 2019-11-04T06:57:31.000Z

maukka:

Those look neat! I suppose flicker is obvious when used with a typical voltage chopping dimmer?

I use it with an IKEA fixture that may be especially made for this led, so I’m not sure if it is a normal voltage dimmer. But the dimming is certainly not up to BLF-standards :nerd_face: , not very smooth and at certain postions the cooler leds keep switching on and off (may I introduce “tint flicker” ? :party: )

maukka · 2019-11-04T07:17:57.000Z

Anyone tested this one (2200-4000K smart bulb):

IKEA

Products

Browse our full range of products from dressing tables to complete modern kitchens. Click here to find the right IKEA product for you. Browse online and in-store today!

For some reason Ikea doesn’t state CRI for that particular model.

fneuf · 2019-11-04T09:32:49.000Z

djozz:

Talking about the blue peak, Luminus has brought a new 3030 led on the market that has the cyan gap filled up (or even made into a cyan peak) so that high CCT’s can be made with a lower blue peak. It is called Luminus “Salud”.

Added in the draft new png table, in a kind of "promising chip" category.

Bob_McBob:

Since there are so many measurements being posted, I just want to remind everyone you should allow LED bulbs to warm up for a while before testing because Duv tends to drop significantly.

You are right, we should build some recommandations for testing. Warming up is one, testing multiples bulbs (2/3) of the same spec (if the testers owns them of course, or can be offered them) and average the values could be another.

At any moment, if any of our dear testers wish to provide new measurements, I'd be glad to keep up to date and update our thread table, if needed.

Just took 30s to read the view of wavelightning take on CRI, and learned something about geography. According to them, in general the US way to describe CRI (Ra) is only based on R1-R8 values. But, the Chinese/European way to describe CRI is said to mostly involves the full R1-R14 scope. And sould be noted Re, with e for extended, but it might not always be the case. All our BLF testers posted here Ra values, so normally R1-R8, but do you think any your spectrometers softwares might misuse the term Ra and do a full Re computation instead?

maukka:

Anyone tested this one (2200-4000K smart bulb): Products - IKEA Switzerland For some reason Ikea doesn’t state CRI for that particular model.

I don't find this particular "304.084.70" 806lm version tested anywhere yet, but the 920lm version, according to this french website review, has its CRI varying between 85 @2700K & 82 @4000K. They advise the reader towards this other Tradfri kit instead, in regard to quality of light (92 in that case). But both published measurements lacks the interesting R9, R12 and Rf values.

maukka · 2019-11-04T10:50:58.000Z

fneuf:

According to them, in general the US way to describe CRI (Ra) is only based on R1-R8 values. But, the Chinese/European way to describe CRI is said to mostly involves the full R1-R14 scope. And sould be noted Re, with e for extended, but it might not always be the case. All our BLF testers posted here Ra values, so normally R1-R8, but do you think any your spectrometers softwares might misuse the term Ra and do a full Re computation instead?

At least my software tools (CT&A, ArgyllCMS spotread) use R1-R8 for Ra measurement, which is the CIE 13.3:1995 standard.

Here’s the data for the 950 lumen Ikea Trådfri model LED1546G12, which looks like has been discontinued. Not integrated nor warmed up for more than a couple minutes, just a quick test in front of the bulb.

fneuf · 2019-11-04T15:09:42.000Z

Trådfri's performance in the red is disappointing. Did you had opportunity to test LIFX's and HUE's products in the past?

New found constetant: Lumicrest Apturi2 PAR30, a 3000K bulb whose manufacturer tests claim CRI 98, R9 95, R12 86, Rf 95. Unfortunately, 36$ per bulb.

BlueSwordM · 2019-11-04T17:26:06.000Z

Guys, I also found this:

Bulbs.com

TCP Dimmable 11W 95 CRI 2700K A19 LED Bulb, Enclosed Rated

TCP dimmable 11 watt 95 CRI A-19 LED bulb generates as much light as many 60 watt incandescent bulbs.

SKV89 · 2019-11-04T17:59:00.000Z

I tested the Ikea LEDARE 3000K 600 lumens GU10 after being warmed up for an hour and got:

CCT: 2994K
DUV: –0.0005
Ra (CRI): 93.1
R9: 58.8
R12: 84.6
Rf: 91
Rg: 99
Blue Peak: 0.43

At cold start, DUV rating is about 0.0011

It is one of the best LED GU10 lights I’ve seen but still wish it had a DUV of –0.002 to –0.004 to make perfect for me.

Strangely I don’t see the 3000K version on their website now and they only sell a 2700K version.

contactcr · 2019-11-04T18:10:19.000Z

BlueSwordM:

Guys, I also found this:
TCP Dimmable 11W 95 CRI 2700K A19 LED Bulb, Enclosed Rated | LED11A19DOD27K95 | Bulbs.com

Energy Star site shows only CRI 92/ R9 57

https://www.energystar.gov/productfinder/product/certified-light-bulbs/details/2289871