Ultrafire 501, 502, 504 or C1?

LED Flashlights – General Info 18650 Flashlights
1

I'm searching for a flashlight with XM-LT6 using 18650 battery cell.
I must admit i'm really a noob and when i see different flashlight with same led and same battery i feel confused.

For example i see many different flashlight with XM-LT6 using 18650 but with different "body": WF501B, WF502B, WF504B and C1.

Which one is the best? What are the difference?

Advice for other flashlight with LT6 and 18650 are welcome!

Thanks

2

I don't care for the 501. I like the 502B which includes a sturdy clip, but I don't think it's the best in dealing with heat (the inside of the head is bigger and the inside is anodized, as is the 501). I don't have a C1. So my favorite is the 504B, which I think looks better in silver. The 504B is also the only one of the 50x's that tailstands if that is important to you.

3

brted, on that note, I've read about the "new" 504B and the "old" 504B. Do you happen to know which vendor sells each/both? I don't know the difference between the two models.

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Get a solarforce L2 body. You don’t list your location so it’s hard to suggest vendors. This will be one of the few you’ll be able to find relatively easily without a drop-in. I agree that, in retrospect, it’s better to choose the drop-in and body you want, rather than to succumb to the temptation of getting an known drop-in “with a body for just a few dollars more”. There are much better choices now than there were even just 6 months ago, much more 2 years ago. It’s a great time to be getting into this, and in my opinion, if you want to go the drop-in route, that’s the way to go.
From among your list, the 501b is the worst. It has the worst thermal management and cheapest design (you can’t remove the bezel/lens, for instance–the head is 1 piece).
From your list, 504b is the best (I don’t know of any ‘new’ or ‘old’ version). The reason I say that is because the 504b will be more compatible with many accessories, and is the most faithful copy of the original Surefire 6P in your list. That said, the Solarforce L2 is a better copy still. All these take 18650’s, which Surefire doesn’t take.
I don’t know much about the C1, nor what it’s “inspired” by–Eagletac? Surefire? I don’t know, but it look like an aesthetic copy of someone’s design. Seems like a nice light, and it’s a P60 host. Seems to take the same switch that the 504b takes, which is good, if so (based on Surefire threading). If you love it, give it a try.
I’m giving you advice I wish someone could’ve given me before I started buying, but this forum didn’t exist at the time, and discussion of such items was discouraged on candlepowerforums. My 501b, and the drop-in which came in it, now live at my girlfriend’s home.

5

Solarforce L2X or L2P if you want budget Quality [ yes you can combine those two words with the L2P-L2X ]

501 is maybe a little light for XM-L , 502 504 C1 , should be fine ...

6

The new 504B doesn't have a hex head, so there is nothing to stop it from rolling. I haven't seen the new one in too many places. If you're looking at DealExtreme's new XM-L lights, those 504B's all look like the original version, which looks almost exactly like a Solarforce L2 except the 504B's come with a flat bezel and tailstand, which many people consider to be an improvement. I have a gun metal gray Solarforce L2 and the quality is definitely better than my 504B, but I actually kind of prefer the 504B, plus I didn't have to buy a new bezel for the 504B like I did for the Solarforce.

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I think you mean Surefire. The Solarforce will take a 18650.

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thanks brted!

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The new 504B is good if you like the looks. Otherwise the old one has more mass. The 504B new style has a black plastic lens reteiner. The other has a aluminium or steel one.

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C1 I have no idea .. other than that the way you listed them is how I rate them

501 is the worst ..so bad unless it's free or like 3$ I don't want it ..

501 /502 /504/solarforce ..save yourself the trouble and buy the solarforce now knowing there will be some dumb deal with the other stuff that you have to buy because of the deal .. like 502 /r2's for 6$ free shipped with charger and batteries in a box ..

I have a solarforce and a 504

Buy solarforce from ITC trading on ebay or there regular online store ..it's cheap globally no matter where you are .

http://stores.ebay.com/INTERNATIONAL-TRADING-COMPANY/SOLARFORCE-PRODUCT-/_

http://www.solarforce-sales.com/

11

The old style 504B looks like this.

Or this in silver

The new style one looks like this

The old style is 100% interchangeable with Solarforce parts and Surefire parts other than the bezel ring. The new style isn't.

12

Hey Boaz,

Is that a link to their website or eBay account? Is $20.99 a good price for the L2P or can it be bought cheaper?

Of the SolarForce bodies, is there one that's better for heat sinking on a Manafont XM-L drop in?

I like the L2P but the L2 looks fine.

The L2M - is that a gray/silver? Can't tell from the pic. Looks good too.

Hell, the L2i would work for me if it heat sinks ok.

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What can i say.. Thanks for all the advice. Now i will look solarforce and then i will take a decision.

The C1 with LT6 that i see is this

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrafire-c1-xm-lt6-5-mode-510-lumen-memory-white-led-flashlight-with-clip-strap-1-18650-55237

(I hope that post link is not a problem, i read the rules and don't seem to be forbidden).

14

In terms of cost, you can get a 504B with a XM-L drop-in from DX for less than a L2P without a drop-in. Now I don't know how good the DX drop-ins are and you'll get either a 1-mode or 5-mode. If you buy the drop-in separately, then Solarforce makes a nice host, but I don't know that the heatsinking will be any better than a 504B.

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My Manafont XM-L dropin lives in an old-style 504B. I prefer it's style to the new type. Given the minuscule differences in mass between most such lights, get the one you like the look of most. You'll still need to do the foil wrapping trick.

16

Yikes. Thanks for catching that brted!! Yes, I meant Surefire doesn't take 18650. Yes, all the OP's proposed options will. Post edited.

I also agree that the smooth bezel which comes on the [EDIT: OLD! version of the] 504b is better for most people [Edit! I do not endorse this 'new' 504b imposter!]. In fact, the ring from my 504b currently lives on my Solarforce L2, to have the best of both worlds. For pocket carry if you have an L2, you'll at some point probably feel compelled to either buy a smooth ring separately, or just take the ring off and not keep a 'lens' in there. When I started getting smooth reflectors, I noticed dirt on the reflector much more.

If you want to use Surefire parts, L2 is your best bet. For instance, my Surefire Z41 twisty tailcap works (more or less) on my L2, but not at all on the 504b for some reason (though it threads on). If you just want a cheap good flashlight that works, 504b will be a little cheaper (if you can even find just bodies for these? or just get'em with a drop-in). Another example of this is my 504b head actually screws off more easily. Ironically that's because the machining is not as tight (slightly lower quality--still fine). Doesn't sound like a big deal, but when you change drop-ins and see how many turns it takes, it will have more significance. 504b is like a Toyota corolla, it's reliable, cheap, and good enough, or a good decision when tempted to bottom-feed. L2 is like the Camry--satisfying in most ways, a general step up. L2P is like the Toyota Avalon, which is basically a luxury version of the Camry. The L2P is essentially a luxury version of the L2. They are still considered offshore/budget but are among the decent ones. These are not American-built Cadillacs but are have their own following nonetheless.

I'm not fond of the switch in either my L2 or 504b (L2 is not recessed, feels nicer, matches flashlight better); both died after I started using the powerful Manafont XM-L drop-ins, though most people haven't had any problems at all with either. The $3 replacement tailcap at dealextreme works on either one, but fits the 504b better. As backup switches, I'm temporarily using a Surefire Z41 twisty tailcap on my L2 and the DX spare tailcap on my 504b. I have some new Solarforce s7 twisties on the way, and a McClicky internal switch to play with, so we'll see how that goes. Hopefully will be better than new. The L2P's switch supposedly can handle more current than cheaper models. Most flashlights come with reverse clickes so you can easily change modes once the flashlight is on. However many people only need light in short bursts, and prefer to have the momentary capability of a forward clicky, at the expense of needing more thought to change modes. And personally I'm becoming a convert to twisties... as long as they work, but they have their own set of problems, I'm discovering.

17

Big thanks to all of you guys for the wealth of information. Now I'm ready to go shopping.

brjones - so you have L2 with no lens? wow, never even thought of that. is that just so it won't overheat? do you "clean" the reflector/emitter? that's got to get real dirty.

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Impostor! That is not a 504b if you ask me! That is a totally different flashlight! How can they call that a 504b?! Why not just create a new model for it?!! If that is genuinely from Ultrafire, with all the touting I've done of them lately, I'm very disappointed.

The main point of the Solarforce L2 (originally) was Surefire 6P compatibility. Then it became about cheap price + quality + 18650 compatibility. Then the ('old') 504b was considered basically almost as compatible as the L2, though not quite as much. With this new thing, I see no further point.

Not sure if you're in the USA, but Lighthound.com is a very respected and low-priced US seller with a reputation for good service, and since your order isn't shipped overseas from Hong Kong, it arrives in days, versus weeks. I just bought an L2p from him and I think it was $20. I think their shipping fees start at around a very modest $3, and free shipping over $75. Sometimes you do actually get better deals at lighthound, regardless support, selection or ease of returns. You can buy in smaller quantities and save. For instance, you can buy a single tailcap boot at lighthound for 29 cents with your order, or get a package of them at DX for $2.19. Same deal with coin cell batteries--he sells them individually and cheap, and you can also get interesting batteries like the AW 18350 LiMn/LMR ("imr") which AW had resisted making for so long, or a generic LiMn 14500 for $4, or a real Li-ion CR2 cheap (impossible for me to find on DX-like sites). I end up picking up other things when I go there, so with combined shipping I don't pay significantly more than the very far away hong kong sellers (though I have used ITC too just fine).

When you factor in that you'll probably need to pay another $3 for a smooth bezel ring if you get the L2, and at that price an L2p is only $4 away, and has a supposedly more robust switch, it probably makes sense to get the L2p (has a less obnoxious bezel), but it's a slippery slope.

Having done both options, if you don't want to end up with a lot of mediocre flashlights, I don't recommend playing the DX lottery on drop-in/host combos. Then again, some people enjoy that. I've done it, and my experience is I had much more satisfaction when I had a better idea of what I was getting, mainly because I did indeed get a better item. The price of a good host + a good XM-L drop-in is going to cost you at least in the mid-20's USD[$], probably closer to 30 or more. At that point, other nice purpose-built XM-L lights come on the radar, but will generally be bigger, and not as upgradeable nor have as many options. Personally, I find anything larger than a P60 host unsuitable for carry 'out and about', and even then, a P60 host is only carryable if I have a jacket.

19

You're welcome!

Don't confuse the 'lens' with the reflector. The "lens" is just a disk of glass (or sometimes clear plastic) which gets screwed down on the FRONT of the head, held in by that bezel ring (IMO an easy way to know a bad P60 host design is: no removable bezel). The actual reflector is pushed backward from the inside of the front of the head. The pill (brass piece which the driver, 'star' and emitter are affixed to) screws into the reflector, and the battery pushes against the spring on the pill. One bad thing about P60 style drop-ins IMO is that you need the reflector to be there, to hold the pill in place. So all pieces are necessary, including the head and reflector, for it to function. I don't like that, but oh well. Bigger flashlights like the C8 and Yezl Y6 have a pill which screws into the body, not the reflector, so the reflector (and sometimes even the head) aren't necessary to function, to get 'full flood' mode with a naked LED emitter.

But with the P60 host you can do interesting things like putting in the DX "optic" (which is actually a real lens) to make it zoom in (fixed) and project a very focused square beam of light for very long throw (not so useful, moreso just interesting/fun). They're also a decent compromise on size for 18650 cells, and of course by far the biggest plus is the modular design and numerous parts which have emerged around this phenomenon. So despite being fundamentally flawed by design, they're also an extremely compelling choice.

Yeah, I took off that sharp crenelated bezel of the L2 because I didn't want it ripping my pockets (and it will). Of course, the glass disk will not be held in at that point, so I had to take that out. It's also true that the glass does actually reduce the amount of light output (it all adds up), so to get maximum transmission, the ideal is no 'lens' at all. And yes the head will still hold back the reflector/drop-in, because there is something of a small fixed ring to hold the drop-in back, and in front of that is a little threading, where the "lens" gets dropped in, and the bezel screwed down into that threading. But if you have a host with a removable bezel, yeah, it doesn't need to be there to physically function. It just prevents dirt and lint (and supposedly water) from getting in.

But then, yes you need to worry about dirt getting onto the reflector, especially when you carry it around (in your pocket or pack). But for a long time, I only used them around the house, and they were stored "head down", which mostly kept dust and dirt out of them. Actually, on Orange Peel ("OP") reflectors, random dust doesn't show up very well. But when I got my Manafont drop-ins, which have very nice smooth reflectors, dust INSTANTLY showed on them--not in the beam pattern on a wall, never seen it make a tangible difference, but just aesthetically, looking at reflector. The reflectors/drop-ins are obviously made in a "clean room" and shipped in a baggie, so they're totally clean when you get them. I recommend putting it straight into your flashlight WITH the lens on, because I've never been able to clean them to the point where they looked as clean as when they arrived. Again, you don't need to be fanatical about the lint/dust--I think the real-world difference in lumens is miniscule if any... but bigger bits of dirt will be a distraction. The LED is pretty well protected by the big head and reflector, but of course anything in a bag or pocket with it could scratch the reflector or damage the LED dome. My biggest problem was pieces of dirt inside my coat pocket, where I had apparently put work gloves with bits of leaves, twigs and dirt, which got onto the reflector.

So now I keep the glass disc on, which (for me) necessitates a smooth bezel ring (supplemental purchase, $3 apiece at lighthound, cheaper [with a larger order] than ITC on Ebay who wants over $5 each/delivered). So I plunked down the $2.29/each for the 'anti-reflective' lens sold at Kaidomain due to the positive reviews (supposedly allows for a few extra lumens by reducing internal glare).. another supplemental purchase. And then my switch died (which I was going to upgrade anyway)... around 8 bucks for an alternative Solarforce tailcap, or to try your hand at DIY skills changing out internal switches. So, while all this kind of sucks, it does simultaneously point out the strength of this medium: replacement parts ARE available for this design, more than any other budget flashlight (next closest is the WF-500 and its variants, but significantly larger, based very loosely on the Mag Lite I think). With the Surefire 6P copies, spare heads, tubes, tailcaps and internal switches, all available INDIVIDUALLY, in a dizzying array of options (again, Solarforce is the strongest here).

With my less-used, less cared about lights which don't get 'carried' with me, and all have OP reflectors (I'm not a fan), yeah, I still remove the bezel and 'lens' (keeping the head and reflector on), and just store them face down. Either that, or I use the crenelated bezel on those to keep the lens in. I think that obnoxious Solarforce crenelated bezel should be an ADD-ON/option, not stock. It WOULD be perfect for some for defensive use, and IS well-made for that kind of purpose in comparison to some others (including being pretty sharp, not rounded-off)... it's just not ideal for general/"all the time" use. By the way, the fancy L2P does not come with anti-reflective glass. So you can see, you can quickly spend more on upgrades than primary lights. My recent lighthound order was almost $100, and aside from the $20 for my first L2P body, about 60% of the rest was accessories for my P60 hosts, which was shocking. Amazing how the Total Cost of Ownership piles up, if you get into it. And--if you're hanging around on here, you will.

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Not as much amazing as terrifying. :(

DX alone has had well over $2000 from me. QCG probably a similar amount.

But then I do own quite a lot of lights - on the days when I can find them all - somewhere over 140 of them...