Vapcell INR18350 1100mAh retested by Mooch: shenanigans again

Barkuti · 2018-11-21T01:43:04.000Z

Smells like another bait and switch thing sort of like this one: Vapcell Gold 30A 3100mAh 20700 Testing Update @ E-CigaretteForum

Vapcell has changed what cell they use for their 10A 1100mAh 18350, without a wrap change @ E-CigaretteForum

Thanks a lot to Mooch.

In my opinion bad product consistency renders consumer mistrust. At least it does for me.

As an amateur battery pack builder I wouldn't lose my time with this stuff at all, though I can understand Vapcell does not aim for battery pack assemblers with their overpriced in this regard cells.

Cheers ^:)

adam7027 · 2018-11-21T11:37:05.000Z

Looking at this, vapcell probably now started to use the same cell, which is available with keeppower wrapping. It is known to be with around 100mAh less capacity, than old vapcell ones, and the voltage sag seems also to be similar. Now there is absolutely no reason to buy the vapcell ones.

EDIT: Sorry, it seems, that the keeppower wrapped cell is still a bit worse, than this ‘new’ cell (according to mooch’s test, keeppower cells lose not 100mAh, but around 300mAh, when discharge tested @ 10A to 2.8V). But… that sag on the start of the discharge is still not good to look at.

adam7027 · 2018-11-21T02:28:54.000Z

From a view of a customer, this is a very bad practice, I mean:

1. making good cells, and getting them tested to let people see, that it is good stuff
2. changing cells under the same wrap
3. telling nothing about this to the customers, just letting them discover that, only if they are extremely aware (e.g. Mooch or HKJ)
4. differences only unveiled later, when ‘accidentally’ a re-testing happens
5. customer feels himself/herself fooled

Barkuti · 2018-11-21T02:51:31.000Z

I concur adam7027, this is about speaking truth ethics and honesty. Vapcell is discrediting itself this way.

Vapcell does not manufacture cells, this stuff is namely about this fact. A renowned battery/cell OEM does not sell different cells under the same wrap. Never. An authentic OEM wrap is something I usually choose when given the choice.

Cheers ^:)

Barkuti · 2018-11-21T10:12:26.000Z

Thanks for chiming in vapcell Dennis. The original development of this cell was because of Aspire, if I'm not mistaken, and manufactured by (?) Shenzen Yongde Lixin Energy.

Maybe some other player(s) are now manufacturing imitations?

I understand the cell could still be rated 10A, but I cannot endorse this attitude with products. Showing customers a good product and once the deal is made skimping on manufacturing costs and lowering product quality is being dishonest and disrespectful. Do you have problems with cell manufacturers committing to make a consistent cell? If I were you I would warn them of frequent and random bench tests done to their cells on every shipment, to the point of filing lawsuits against offenders. A cell is not mere capacity and amperage ratings, it is much more and this also means how much energy can it deliver and the shape of its discharge curves. Get serious if you would like to be taken seriously.

It may be a good idea to find some small electrical appliance manufacturer(s) willing to use cells like this one in their stuff: hair clippers, electric shavers, etc. It would help with achieving product consistency and manufacturing volumes, I think.

Cheers ^:)

Agro · 2018-11-21T10:55:19.000Z

I see that at times you may have troubles sourcing the best cells available.
But the only right way to handle such case is to change the wrapper, clearly notifying the customers that this is a different product.
Silent switch like this one seriously undermines the trust we can put in the Vapcell products that we buy. And in a volatile market like the one you’re in - trust is a huge factor when making purchases.

Barkuti · 2018-11-21T15:19:31.000Z

This is how I “sort of” see the progressive regression of these cells, from the 1st and the best to the latest and worst ones. Hope they already stopped cutting corners because there are no corners left to be cut LoL: Aspire INR18350 1300/1100mAh, KeepPower UH1835P 18350 1200mAh and Vapcell INR18350 1100mAh, and in last position but still what seems a little bit better than Mooch's Vapcell INR18350 retest is the hyperbolically rated and funnily named BestFire IMR18350 1500mAh:

Between top and bottom the difference is huge already. The BestFire's discharge curves are of a different shape, maybe the chemistry and/or the OEM is different.

Cheers ^:)

nottawhackjob · 2018-11-22T07:03:51.000Z

I just received a pair of the same 18350’s from Liion Wholesale. They’re the new version Mooch tested.

Should I let Liion know?

nick779 · 2018-11-24T19:50:58.000Z

Mtn has the new versions too. I let Randy know. He’s going to check with his vapcell rep.

Hugh_Johnson · 2018-11-25T15:34:11.000Z

Thanks for this. I bought these 6 months ago, which is right after the change. Not sure yet which revision I got.

nick779 · 2018-11-26T13:13:28.000Z

Hugh Johnson:

Thanks for this. I bought these 6 months ago, which is right after the change. Not sure yet which revision I got.

Look at the bottom of the cell, its the easiest way to distinguish it. I bought mine a few weeks ago from MTN and I have V2.

Hugh_Johnson · 2018-12-09T17:44:47.000Z

Just checked mine. I have one of the gen 1 cells.

heatwaves · 2019-01-06T20:44:42.000Z

This is a fascinating (and disappointing) thread. I often use 18350 cells in my Emisar D4 “shorty” tube while jogging at night. Wanting to maximize the potential, I switched from Efest Purple 700mAh to Vapcell 1100mAh. I didn’t notice any differences with max brightness between the two cells (which was no big deal), but I was shocked that the Vapcell seemed to have greatly less capacity. After just a couple of runs, my D4 was blinking a battery warning. This never happened with the Efest Purple. I was so puzzled, that I started checking online and found Mooch’s original FB post on this, then this thread.

Is there any realiable high-drain 18350 cell with 1000mAh anymore? I’ve read that Shockli’s 1150mAh 18350 cell is promising but doesn’t seem to have a distributor.

Hoop · 2019-01-06T20:53:25.000Z

You can still get Aspire 18350s before they become sold out.

heatwaves · 2019-01-06T21:35:32.000Z

Hoop:

You can still get Aspire 18350s before they become sold out.

Where? I thought I did a pretty thorough search, but couldn’t find any.

Petr_J · 2019-01-06T22:20:03.000Z

heatwaves:

Is there any realiable high-drain 18350 cell with 1000mAh anymore? I’ve read that Shockli’s 1150mAh 18350 cell is promising but doesn’t seem to have a distributor.

Shockli 18 350 can be bought at Aliexpress.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs-lot-Shockli-IMR18350-lithium-battery-1150mAh-3-7V-rechargeable-battery-continuous-10A-electronic-cigarette-battery/32944084793.html

Hoop · 2019-01-06T22:29:49.000Z

Ok, maybe the Aspires are gone by now.

tm07 · 2019-01-06T22:36:22.000Z

18350 Keeppower IMR18350 1200mAh High Discharge Flat Top https://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/batteries/18350-keeppower-imr18350-1200mah-high-discharge-flat-top.html

Hoop · 2019-01-06T22:57:53.000Z

The KeepPowers appear to be more of a gamble with multiple cells using the same labels.

The Shocklis in the photos on Ali seem to use the new style can, so may also be the same “new” cell.

The difference of the cells in Mooch’s test is not so dramatic really but of course it’s not great to see a performance decline. This is probably beyond the control of VapCell, KeepPower, Shockli etc. They get what they get from the factory.

Jerommel · 2019-01-06T23:06:52.000Z

The good old bait and switch…
Or should we call it “quality fade” ?
The effect is the same…