Warwolf T1 g̶a̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ mouse, anyone? ( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ)

BurningPlayd0h · 2019-09-09T03:53:03.000Z

We need some flight sim threads on BLF, seems like a crowd that would be all over that. Next paycheck I’ll be picking up a VKB flight stick since my Thrustmaster T1600 died and isn’t built to be fixed.

leftdisconnected · 2019-09-10T07:31:26.000Z

BlueSwordM:

If I were to buy a new mouse for 10-15+ years, I would just pay up for an MX518:
Logitech Support + Download

Buying high quality products is rather important for time, money, and environmental reasons.

I tend to agree with that sentiment and, in fact, I’m well-known for trying to find quality products and then expecting them to last forever. However, I am not confident that “paying up” for the MX518 will provide you with a mouse that will last for a decade and a half.

I take care of my equipment, but so far I cannot get any Logitech to last for more than 3 years. The longest-lasting mouse I ever owned was an original Microsoft Intellimouse Optical wired mouse (which solved my ball mouse problems so well that I basically had an unfair advantage in pre-millenium games against friends). That mouse still worked last I checked, but the buttons were glitchy; the tracking was still great (for its time). I just don’t like to use wired mice anymore as no longer have a standard PC.

$60 actually isn’t unreasonable for a quality mouse, though. Many people will pay more than $2000 for a nice laptop, so it shouldn’t be unreasonable to pay over $100 for an ergonomic, high-quality mouse and keyboard set.

Barkuti · 2019-09-10T07:40:27.000Z

BlueSwordM:

If I were to buy a new mouse for 10-15+ years, I would just pay up for an MX518:

https://www.logitechg.com/en-ca/products/gaming-mice/mx518-gaming-mouse.html

…

Didn't pay attention to that before, now I know why: ugly :-D and corded. Sacrilege!

raccoon · 2019-09-10T08:03:13.000Z

The MX518 looks like a fairly simple mouse, though I wish it had a braided cord.

How does it stack up to the Logitech G502?

EDIT:

Seems like no one on BLF has a Warwolf T1.

There are a lot of reviews on AliExpress, however.

mrheosuper · 2019-09-10T08:09:35.000Z

im using wireless G403, and i like it, being wireless is a big deal to me, no annoying wire on table anymore

now i want a good wireless mech keyboard, but most of wireless KB using Bluetooth protocol, which is slow and delayed, there are somes from logictech, but they dont use cherry switches

BurningPlayd0h · 2019-09-10T19:52:34.000Z

Barkuti:

BlueSwordM:

If I were to buy a new mouse for 10-15+ years, I would just pay up for an MX518:
https://www.logitechg.com/en-ca/products/gaming-mice/mx518-gaming-mouse.html
…

Didn’t pay attention to that before, now I know why: ugly and corded. Sacrilege!

Logitech has the only good wireless tech for gaming. If you want it, you gotta give em :money_mouth_face:

Many new mice use shoelace/paracord cables (or you can install your own that doesn’t have shielding and will be even better) and that in combination with a “mouse bungee” gives a basically wireless feel. Wireless from other brands almost always has significant lag and is sometimes a total battery hog if they aren’t using the newer, more power efficient Pixart sensors.

Just saw this on the product page unfortunately:

New Version: High Resolution: 2400DPI

Definitely a several gen old sensor, spin-outs and poor tracking inbound for gaming use.

But most importantly… shape/comfort >>>>>>>>>> aesthetics. MX518 is too big and heavy for me but I know lots of people that fell in love with the feel.

If anyone is looking for a quality gaming mouse (and some reviews of productivity models) check these channels out:
BeardedBob
and
Rocket Jump Ninja

Barkuti · 2019-09-10T21:35:09.000Z

So, just 2400dpi is unfortunate?

To me that is probably more than enough. I do not really own any high resolution display yet and, on the other hand, the first mouse I tried in my life was

Source article: http://ekot.dk/projekter/UIfMD/mockup3.html

Unmodified, of course. And with a ball. ;-)

That was a really crude mouse, even for CGA/Hercules display resolutions (640 × 200, 720 × 348).

I would love to see nowadays' crybabies using one of the above. Oh wait! That mice used serial port connection, so not sure if any modern device/OS would recognize it.

This thread is already somewhat off-topic, it turned out into computer mice discussion.

I do not really care much about corded mice. Mice can be good and wireless, but since most people still believe they can only have gazillion polling rate or responsive mice with a cord, that's what they get and not the other way.

BurningPlayd0h · 2019-09-10T23:18:36.000Z

DPI in itself is just a sensitivity setting. I almost exclusively stay at 400 DPI.

The sensor haivng only 2400 DPI as the max means it can’t be one of the newer generation with flawless tracking. Until very recently the max tracking speed of sensors was low, so if you swiped it across your pad fast enough to would “spin out” and your aim/cursor would shoot straight up instantly.

Mice can be good and wireless, but since most people still believe

Trust me, the mouse community on overclock.net and other forums is JUST as obsessive and scientific about them as we are about flashlights here. Logitech’s new wireless tech is such a big deal (and so expensive) because literally nobody has done what they have before and there is data to prove it. Now that the cat’s out of the bag I’m sure other companies will step it up and try to compete (rumors are something will be out SOONER rather than later).

Shape is always, always most important though (okay maybe MMOs and RTS games being the exception where you need lots of buttons?) and that’s why I wouldn’t use Logi’s wireless mice even for free.

My dad has a mouse not that old but fairly similar. The PC he had it connected to ran Windows… 3, I think? Crazy to remember how advanced that all seemed, I sure won’t miss dial-up though

goshdogit · 2019-09-11T02:03:23.000Z

Our first mouse was a Logitech C-7 for our IBM XT. It was $100!

I still have it, and it probably still works.

It’d be fun to stuff the innards of a wireless mouse inside it.

I’d leave the cord unplugged on the desk while using it.

leftdisconnected · 2019-09-12T07:56:43.000Z

Barkuti:

So, just 2400dpi is unfortunate?

+1. Heck, I’ve never even used a 2400dpi mouse . Must be nice. For less than $10, who’s going to care about getting a sensor that’s 3 generations old? Competitive gamers aren’t the target market here .

To me that is probably more than enough. I do not really own any high resolution display yet and, on the other hand, the first mouse I tried in my life was

Source article: http://ekot.dk/projekter/UIfMD/mockup3.html

Unmodified, of course. And with a ball.

I would love to see nowadays’ crybabies using one of the above. Oh wait! That mice used serial port connection, so not sure if any modern device/OS would recognize it.

Put a USB adapter onto it and it should work. I’d actually watch competitive gaming if everyone had to use the mouse above. That would be fun, as 20 years ago I collected plenty of personal experience of how badly a sticking ball mouse will screw you up in games. We’d get to see a lot of screaming tantrums and shattered mice :partying_face: .

I do not really care much about corded mice. Mice can be good and wireless, but since most people still believe they can only have gazillion polling rate or responsive mice with a cord, that’s what they get and not the other way.

I think it’s a fault of human nature to take everything a million times past the point of vanishing returns. I do understand why competitive gamers must have the latest and greatest of everything, but people should also remember that those kids aren’t paying for any of it; they get paid just to use the stuff that suckers like us will be paying for.

If you can actually tell the difference between one mouse and another with last year’s sensor, then by all means purchase the newest $200 gaming mouse if it improves the experience. Still…

Linus Tech Tips did a video recently where they set up a super-slo-mo comparison between wireless and wired mice and there was basically no difference at all. I wouldn’t object to a wired mouse if I had a PC that sat in one place, but I don’t; I have a laptop.

I see people all the time using nothing but a touchpad all day, every day [shudder] :confounded: . They must be masochists.

Barkuti · 2019-09-12T14:43:13.000Z

LoL x-D goshdogit.

leftdisconnected:

…

Put a USB adapter onto it and it should work. …

The genius mouse was lent to me by a friend, we still did not have a mouse for the PC. Soon aftwerwards my brother brought home one of the below classics:

Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-GENUINE-MICROSOFT-PS-2-PN-31660-RARE-COMPUTER-MOUSE-2-BUTTON-12077-/371982927622

I'd say the above seller is somewhat cheeky, but guess that is what it is. If he just sells a few at such pricetag, it's a win.

That Microsoft mouse worked a lot better than the above Genius, at least as far as I can recall.

As with all ball mice the basic credo was keeping the mouse ball rollers clean, and of course using a proper mouse surface (and keeping it clean). That ensured a proper mouse-ing experience. I can't recall the many times I cleaned one of my close friends' mice, I used to go to his home to play computer games back in the day. You could even find hairs inside from time to time.

leftdisconnected:

… I’d actually watch competitive gaming if everyone had to use the mouse above. That would be fun, as 20 years ago I collected plenty of personal experience of how badly a sticking ball mouse will screw you up in games. We’d get to see a lot of screaming tantrums and shattered mice :partying_face: .

…

Completely agree, ROFLMAO. With a big box full of used, unclean ;-) vintage mice to share out with those in trouble. I would bet with the patient, wise ones first taking care of their peripherals' hygiene.

Thu, 09/12/2019 - 08:36

leftdisconnected · 2019-09-12T08:00:37.000Z

OFF-TOPIC (sorry Barkuti, but couldn’t pass this up)

BurningPlayd0h:

I sure won’t miss dial-up though

Me neither…

I still have it (1).

There are millions of people in this country with no access to broadband and no one really gives a crap. Everyone just tells me to move somewhere else. Next time they want a hamburger, maybe I can tell them to move to where they can have “access” to cattle . (we raise beef cattle)

People that are on the Internet and use its many services are unlikely to know about people who are not on the Internet and cannot use those services. Such people basically no longer exist. On the plus side, they aren’t having their minds poisoned by Twitter…

(1) - I’m not on dial-up right now because, after years of trying, I finally discovered a very specific location in my home that receives a weak LTE signal from Verizon, which claims to offer no service here. I got lucky and now tether my laptop to my phone. I went from 19Kbps to about 900Kbps. Even though the reception goes in and out from night to night, I’m thankful for each and every bit. When I hear people complain about getting 10Mbps or something, I just laugh to avoid punching them .

My father still uses my dial-up account and I can still check e-mail with it when the LTE drops out, so technically I still have dial-up. I certainly still pay for it. The ISP has warned me that their access numbers could stop working at any moment. We lost 2 out of 3 local numbers last year.

There’s a lot of rambling story behind all of this, but it’s not appropriate to do that here.

Now that I have a phone with no hand crank on the side, I think I’ll try one of those newfangled “compact disc” machines…

(yes, I’ve had a cellular phone for 20 years; they just never worked at home, which was not necessarily a bad thing as business almost never followed me home . Once I left town, I was effectively off the grid.)

raccoon · 2019-09-12T07:04:34.000Z

We have satellite internet, which is the worst kind of broadband available.

It's either that, or dial-up.

(I'm glad we don't have dial-up.)

leftdisconnected · 2019-09-12T07:53:31.000Z

Barkuti:

That Microsoft mouse worked a lot better than the above Genius, at least as far as I can recall.

The Microsoft mouse worked very well, in my opinion, and was magnitudes more comfortable than those that came before it. I’ve got one somewhere, but see no reason to find it . Though I used Logitech mice as well, I upgraded from Microsoft mouse to Microsoft mouse for my home computer, at least until they stopped making them better.

As with all ball mice the basic credo was keeping the mouse ball rollers clean, and of course using a proper mouse surface (and keeping it clean).

Nasty things, ball mice. The ball needed to be clean, but the primary problem for me was that the axles “automatically” cleaned (collected) most of the dirt from the ball. Once a week or whenever it began acting badly, I would turn over the mouse, remove the ball, and use a cloth or tissue to clean the gunk and unwind the hair from the axles. Since the mouse rolled over a surface rubbed by your fingers and arm, I figured that the gunk was dirt mixed with dead skin cells. It was dry, though, so it wasn’t terribly disgusting and people those days were accustomed to it .

One reason I chuckle at gaming mice that require a special, wired mouse pad is that old ball mice also performed best on “special” mouse pads. I went through at least a couple of 3M mouse pads in the late 90’s (before buying the original MS Intellimouse Optical) as they had tiny little bumps on them which helped to roll the ball more reliably. The 3M “surfaces” were really just a thin layer with one side textured, so I glued these to normal mouse pads and trimmed the underlying pad to match the 3M shape. I obviously liked the result, as…

Though the grippy texture wore off to some degree (and was no longer needed), I kept using one of those 3M pads with my Intellimouse Optical, as the pad had a highly detailed pattern that helped the optical mouse track well. Those early optical mice did not track at all on low-contrast or glossy surfaces. I wound up using one particular 3M-pasted-to-generic pad for about 15 years.

BurningPlayd0h · 2019-09-12T16:10:08.000Z

leftdisconnected:

If you can actually tell the difference between one mouse and another with last year’s sensor, then by all means purchase the newest $200 gaming mouse if it improves the experience. Still…

Linus Tech Tips did a video recently where they set up a super-slo-mo comparison between wireless and wired mice and there was basically no difference at all. I wouldn’t object to a wired mouse if I had a PC that sat in one place, but I don’t; I have a laptop.

Spin-outs don’t require a trained eye to see/feel:

All the wireless mice tested there are low-latency wireless tech, except for the MX master. That’s why there is little to no difference in input lag.

everydaysurvivalgear · 2019-09-12T16:53:51.000Z

Check out Steelseries they make good quality mouse and mouse pads for a decent price. I got one of these on sale for a great price so i bought it.

Legit Reviews – 7 Aug 15

SteelSeries Heroes of the Storm Gaming Mouse Review - Legit Reviews

The SteelSeries Heroes of the Storm Gaming Mouse is based on the Sensei RAW and features a licensed design in the style of Blizzard's hero brawler game.

DPI isn’t the best but its more than i need i game at around 3000dpi playing Battlefield. My Razor was a better mouse specs wise but the build quality on the razor is subpar to the Steelseries.

Also Coolermaster have a nice lineup I’ve been using Coolermaster PSUs and fans for over 15 years they are decent.

Barkuti · 2019-09-12T17:05:53.000Z

BurningPlayd0h:

…

Spin-outs don’t require a trained eye to see/feel:

YouTube

…

Eeerm, WTF? I mean, how is that supposed to happen? A too jerky mouse push?

In all honesty, knowing hardware's limitations is also the pilot's duty. ;-)

Jack_Kellar · 2019-09-12T17:25:11.000Z

This thread is feeling more and more like LGR’s channel.

All I know is that I miss playing marbles with the rubberized steel balls of broken old mice like Barkuti’s Genius above (and scraping the rollers clean of that dry grime that built up on them and affected sensitivity, it was one of my pastimes as a bored kid), and that I don’t think I need more than two thumb buttons to cycle among my soldiers in XCOM 2012, but a few for the pinky would be appreciated. lol

BurningPlayd0h · 2019-09-12T17:29:54.000Z

Barkuti:

BurningPlayd0h:

…
Spin-outs don’t require a trained eye to see/feel:

YouTube

…

Eeerm, WTF? I mean, how is that supposed to happen? A too jerky mouse push?

In all honesty, knowing hardware’s limitations is also the pilot’s duty.

Older sensors had a “max tracking speed” much lower than those in the last few years. If you swiped too fast (which is easy to do in a FPS if you’re playing at a low enough sens) it would spin out and look straight up or down like that.

everydaysurvivalgear:

Check out Steelseries they make good quality mouse and mouse pads for a decent price. I got one of these on sale for a great price so i bought it.
SteelSeries Heroes of the Storm Gaming Mouse Review - Legit Reviews

DPI isn’t the best but its more than i need i game at around 3000dpi playing Battlefield. My Razor was a better mouse specs wise but the build quality on the razor is subpar to the Steelseries.

Also Coolermaster have a nice lineup I’ve been using Coolermaster PSUs and fans for over 15 years they are decent.

With almost any sensor in any mouse using a DPI that high will introduce smoothing and other issues. I’d recommend dropping to 1600 or lower and simply raising the in-game sensitivity.

Barkuti · 2019-09-18T08:11:00.000Z

Pretty good rodent and quick delivery for the price (it's even cheaper now). This is just a quick run of the mill evaluation, of course. Mouse can be powered on without the lighting effects, which neither are unpleasant.