What do you think about new Weller soldering station drama

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-21T23:52:53.000Z

The Cat II isolation thing is important.

If you use a soldering iron in a professional environment, everything will be bonded to ground for ESD precautions.

The iron, every other bit of manufacturing and test equipment, work surfaces, workers’ bodies (wrist straps), even the floor, via heel straps (any idea how much conductive floor tiles or carpet costs, and how carefully they must be maintained ? I do)

But once you start bonding things together, you introduce a mode where a failure can, basically electrocute the operators, through their ESD protection stuff.

That’s why good kit is at least Cat II, and the ESD bonding point is not a direct connection to “ground” through the power cord, which should not exist. Rather through a high value resistor, such that any fault condition cannot pass a lethal current to the operator, who is hard-wired to it.

The standards applying to bathrooms, or medical devices, should be the bare minimum.

Weller know their stuff, and I trust them to make professional kit properly.

A copper and steel wound transformer is the perfect isolating device, nothing better. Switch mode PSUs are now very much cheaper, but have so many failure possibilities, even if the designer has any clue about the subtleties.

However stuffing 240V into one wound for 110V is never going to end well.

At least the man recognised that the polyfuse and PTC on the secondary saved the electronics from the over-load. I’d say that was robust engineering.

The man ’effed up, then chose to make a drama out of his mistake. Maybe some additional fuse might have shut it down sooner, but if his workshop was wired up properly it would have tripped that out in milliseconds.

I would not want to work there.

BlancoFire · 2018-12-21T23:45:01.000Z

This is scary stuff; I’m sticking to wire nuts

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-22T00:02:45.000Z

BlancoFire:

This is scary stuff; I’m sticking to wire nuts

And most of my T&M equipment is battery powered. No worries there, total isolation, and the results are better (no noise from the mains supply to contend with, or weird bonding issues).

chadvone · 2018-12-22T00:07:05.000Z

I went out of my way to thumbs down this guy

mrheosuper · 2018-12-22T05:30:21.000Z

Enderman:

I think Tom is right, it’s mostly for views and to draw attention by exaggerating a small oversight.
Get a video to go viral, get a bunch of new audience following the channel, etc.

Obviously it would be great if it worked on both 110/220 but it clearly says it does not, and only comes with the NA connector.
It’s even in the name! WE1010 NA
NA = north america = 110V
I would expect everyone buying a $100+ high end soldering station to know the difference between 110 and 220V.

Why we need protected equipment if all follow safety procedure?, every one makes mistakes, no one can’t deny
If you make mistake, do you want to burn your entire house down, or just blowing a cheap fuse ?
And in addition, the cheap chinnese unit that cost 1/5, has a fuse.

When i buy an expensive product( car, phone, charger,etc), i am expecting more safety than cheap one.

mrheosuper · 2018-12-22T05:34:52.000Z

Enderman:

“Oh no, I put my phone in a glass of water and it turns out it died!”

“I guess if I had read the specs I would have figured out it wasn’t waterproof!”

“How shameful of this phone not being waterproof!

“This is totally the manufacturer’s fault!”

It is totally different thing, safety is one of the most necessary, not like water proof

Now imagine they make quick charge charger that will output 20V at USB port, and you accident plug your 5V only phone into that usb port, and kaboom, your hand is gone , for your entire life

That’s why they have to make all usb port output 5V and only 20V when the phone asking.

Enderman · 2018-12-22T05:54:14.000Z

mrheosuper:

It is totally different thing, safety is one of the most necessary, not like water proof

Now imagine they make quick charge charger that will output 20V at USB port, and you accident plug your 5V only phone into that usb port, and kaboom, your hand is gone , for your entire life

That’s why they have to make all usb port output 5V and only 20V when the phone asking.

The weller station starts smoking, there is no explosion, it does not catch fire when you’re away from home to burn down your house, it does not leak radioactive waste.
It simply dies.

2) 20V would not cause a phone to explode. Quick charge already outputs 20V over USB, and if you plug a 5V phone into it then it will only output 5V.
Even if you did manage to hardwire 20V into a USB plug and plug your phone in it would just fry the circuit, just like with this soldering station.
Nothing explodes or is dangerous in any way.

3) You can plug 200V into a phone and it will not explode or blow your hand off. I think you have a severe misunderstanding of how electricity and electronics work.

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-12-22T06:18:36.000Z

Enderman:

mrheosuper:

It is totally different thing, safety is one of the most necessary, not like water proof

Now imagine they make quick charge charger that will output 20V at USB port, and you accident plug your 5V only phone into that usb port, and kaboom, your hand is gone , for your entire life

That’s why they have to make all usb port output 5V and only 20V when the phone asking.

The weller station starts smoking, there is no explosion, it does not catch fire when you’re away from home to burn down your house, it does not leak radioactive waste.
It simply dies.

2) 20V would not cause a phone to explode. Quick charge already outputs 20V over USB, and if you plug a 5V phone into it then it will only output 5V.
Even if you did manage to hardwire 20V into a USB plug and plug your phone in it would just fry the circuit, just like with this soldering station.
Nothing explodes or is dangerous in any way.

3) You can plug 200V into a phone and it will not explode or blow your hand off. I think you have a severe misunderstanding of how electricity and electronics work.

People have died from using faulty chargers that output 240v many cases of this happening. I doubt metal phones have the isolation to protect from mains what isolation it has will break down after a bit of time. If you input 240v into a phone and it turns into a short good chance it will explode.

SIGShooter · 2018-12-22T06:27:17.000Z

I just don’t understand how you can plug a 110v device into a 220v outlet without meaning too given that the plug won’t fit into a 220v circuit without an adapter. If I ever did that I’d be too embarrassed to tell anyone.

Enderman · 2018-12-22T06:33:30.000Z

everydaysurvivalgear:

People have died from using faulty chargers that output 240v many cases of this happening. I doubt metal phones have the isolation to protect from mains what isolation it has will break down after a bit of time. If you input 240v into a phone and it turns into a short good chance it will explode.

There is nothing that would explode, unless you’re taking about the mini explosions that sever copper traces on a PCB.

Also you don’t die from touching 120V or 240V.
It is almost impossible to, unless you somehow touch it in a way that you can’t let go and the duration is long.
All of the “if you touch a wall socket you will die” is just to scare people off from doing it on purpose.

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-12-22T07:04:02.000Z

Yea a gernal explosion will occour with sparks maybe enough to blow the back of the phone if it arks across traces.

Hmmmm you can’t gernalise this. I have been shocked heaps of times while working on phone lines and yea nothing it just hurts. Unless its AC then it really hurts lol.
When i was a kid i turned of a radio at my aunties house and i got shocked by 240v and couldn’t let go some one had to turn the socket of.

A good chance with enough power some ones heart could go into Arrhythmia this depends on path of current.
This depends on the path to ground if it travels through your arm or feet.
Sparkies have died from touching a grounded electrical box and live by accident.

The Sydney Morning Herald – 27 Jun 14

Faulty USB phone charger blamed for Sheryl Aldeguer's death

A mobile phone business faces prosecution over the death of a woman electrocuted by a faulty USB phone charger at her home on the NSW central coast.

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-22T07:16:15.000Z

Even if you wanted to electrocute yourself, e.g the traditional toaster dropped into the bath, never mind the head in the gas oven, you just can’t do it nowadays.

Which is all good.,

Nevertheless some bullsh&tters still seem to try to work out their own devious methods and publicise them.

Simple solution, two crocodile clips across the nipples, 240V, bypass every trip, then put it up on youtube. I’d really like to see that, in the case of this individual.

mrheosuper · 2018-12-22T14:08:30.000Z

[quote=Enderman]

mrheosuper:

The weller station starts smoking, there is no explosion, it does not catch fire when you’re away from home to burn down your house, it does not leak radioactive waste.
It simply dies.

it didn’t catch fire because he pulled out it quickly, at primary side, wire will be shorted together, after isulator has been burned out, the resistance drop, more power comes in, he did explain about it if you have watched whole video

20V would not cause a phone to explode. Quick charge already outputs 20V over USB, and if you plug a 5V phone into it then it will only output 5V.
Even if you did manage to hardwire 20V into a USB plug and plug your phone in it would just fry the circuit, just like with this soldering station.
Nothing explodes or is dangerous in any way.

nothing explode because the phone actually has a lot of FUSE, if they get rid all protective component, i bet it will explode.

You can plug 200V into a phone and it will not explode or blow your hand off. I think you have a severe misunderstanding of how electricity and electronics work.

i really doubt about this claim

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-12-22T14:31:59.000Z

Tom Tom:

Even if you wanted to electrocute yourself, e.g the traditional toaster dropped into the bath, never mind the head in the gas oven, you just can’t do it nowadays.

Which is all good.,

Nevertheless some bullsh&tters still seem to try to work out their own devious methods and publicise them.

Simple solution, two crocodile clips across the nipples, 240V, bypass every trip, then put it up on youtube. I’d really like to see that, in the case of this individual.

Your weekends sound interesting lol.

Lexel · 2018-12-22T14:51:30.000Z

Tom Tom:

The Cat II isolation thing is important.

If you use a soldering iron in a professional environment, everything will be bonded to ground for ESD precautions.

The iron, every other bit of manufacturing and test equipment, work surfaces, workers’ bodies (wrist straps), even the floor, via heel straps (any idea how much conductive floor tiles or carpet costs, and how carefully they must be maintained ? I do)

But once you start bonding things together, you introduce a mode where a failure can, basically electrocute the operators, through their ESD protection stuff.

That’s why good kit is at least Cat II, and the ESD bonding point is not a direct connection to “ground” through the power cord, which should not exist. Rather through a high value resistor, such that any fault condition cannot pass a lethal current to the operator, who is hard-wired to it.

The standards applying to bathrooms, or medical devices, should be the bare minimum.

Weller know their stuff, and I trust them to make professional kit properly.

A copper and steel wound transformer is the perfect isolating device, nothing better. Switch mode PSUs are now very much cheaper, but have so many failure possibilities, even if the designer has any clue about the subtleties.

However stuffing 240V into one wound for 110V is never going to end well.

At least the man recognised that the polyfuse and PTC on the secondary saved the electronics from the over-load. I’d say that was robust engineering.

The man ’effed up, then chose to make a drama out of his mistake. Maybe some additional fuse might have shut it down sooner, but if his workshop was wired up properly it would have tripped that out in milliseconds.

I would not want to work there.

The upper line of Weller Irons got a plug where you can define the grounding of the tip with a bridge or resistor. They also got a fuse.

moderator007 · 2018-12-22T18:04:39.000Z

A Weller WE1010 (same as in video) with C13 US cord.

.
A EU cord with the same C13 plug.

.
They both plug right in.

Lexel · 2018-12-22T18:05:56.000Z

moderator007:

A Weller WE1010 with C13 US cord.

A EU cord with the same C13 plug.

They both plug right in.

but still you should not buy a 110V version in a 230V country,
if you moved from 110V country to 230V country you always check gear you plug in the first time if its labeled 110V or 230V to decide if you need a transformer to run it

moderator007 · 2018-12-22T18:12:23.000Z

Lexel:

moderator007:

A Weller WE1010 with C13 US cord.

A EU cord with the same C13 plug.

They both plug right in.

but still you should not buy a 110V version in a 230V country,
if you moved from 110V country to 230V country you always check gear you plug in the first time if its labeled 110V or 230V to decide if you need a transformer to run it

I’m not defending his stupid mistake if that’s even what it was.
He receives and buys crap all the time to review and test, is it possible he had a 120v version setting around that someone sent by mistake?
I don’t know but I can see how you would just grab one of 200 solder stations he has and just plug it in.

Enderman · 2018-12-22T19:15:21.000Z

mrheosuper:

it didn’t catch fire because he pulled out it quickly, at primary side, wire will be shorted together, after isulator has been burned out, the resistance drop, more power comes in, he did explain about it if you have watched whole video
nothing explode because the phone actually has a lot of FUSE, if they get rid all protective component, i bet it will explode.
i really doubt about this claim

If it was shorted then the breakers would cut the power to the wall plug. Do you know that every home/building has breakers in it?

2) No.

3) No. The only thing that can possibly explode in a phone is the lithium cell, and that needs to be punctured or physically damaged to explode.

Lightbringer · 2018-12-22T19:43:42.000Z

As much as I’m enjoying all the petty bickering, I think we can all agree on a few points.

First, it really is a good idea to fuse the power-cable within an inch of entering the cabinet. At least that’s what I always did even for simple stoopit linear power supplies, even before the main power-switch.

Second, yeah, it was kinda cheap and stoopit for Weller to “save” on a 5¢ fuse, even a small pigtail fuse hardwired into the circuit vs in a fancy replaceable fuseholder or anything.

Whether or not it was criminally negligent of Weller to skip it is what most people are p&m-ing about.

Third, it was even stooooooopiter for whuts-his-nuts to plug a 120V device into 240V mains, fuse or not.

IEC connectors are meant for the user’s convenience and the mfr’s convenience, as to not have to have/need dedicated sockets/cables for each country/voltage/frequency/whatever.

That about sum it up?

Anyway, please continue your petty bickering. I find it most intriguing.