What do you think about new Weller soldering station drama

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-12-22T06:18:36.000Z

Enderman:

mrheosuper:

It is totally different thing, safety is one of the most necessary, not like water proof

Now imagine they make quick charge charger that will output 20V at USB port, and you accident plug your 5V only phone into that usb port, and kaboom, your hand is gone , for your entire life

That’s why they have to make all usb port output 5V and only 20V when the phone asking.

The weller station starts smoking, there is no explosion, it does not catch fire when you’re away from home to burn down your house, it does not leak radioactive waste.
It simply dies.

2) 20V would not cause a phone to explode. Quick charge already outputs 20V over USB, and if you plug a 5V phone into it then it will only output 5V.
Even if you did manage to hardwire 20V into a USB plug and plug your phone in it would just fry the circuit, just like with this soldering station.
Nothing explodes or is dangerous in any way.

3) You can plug 200V into a phone and it will not explode or blow your hand off. I think you have a severe misunderstanding of how electricity and electronics work.

People have died from using faulty chargers that output 240v many cases of this happening. I doubt metal phones have the isolation to protect from mains what isolation it has will break down after a bit of time. If you input 240v into a phone and it turns into a short good chance it will explode.

SIGShooter · 2018-12-22T06:27:17.000Z

I just don’t understand how you can plug a 110v device into a 220v outlet without meaning too given that the plug won’t fit into a 220v circuit without an adapter. If I ever did that I’d be too embarrassed to tell anyone.

Enderman · 2018-12-22T06:33:30.000Z

everydaysurvivalgear:

People have died from using faulty chargers that output 240v many cases of this happening. I doubt metal phones have the isolation to protect from mains what isolation it has will break down after a bit of time. If you input 240v into a phone and it turns into a short good chance it will explode.

There is nothing that would explode, unless you’re taking about the mini explosions that sever copper traces on a PCB.

Also you don’t die from touching 120V or 240V.
It is almost impossible to, unless you somehow touch it in a way that you can’t let go and the duration is long.
All of the “if you touch a wall socket you will die” is just to scare people off from doing it on purpose.

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-12-22T07:04:02.000Z

Yea a gernal explosion will occour with sparks maybe enough to blow the back of the phone if it arks across traces.

Hmmmm you can’t gernalise this. I have been shocked heaps of times while working on phone lines and yea nothing it just hurts. Unless its AC then it really hurts lol.
When i was a kid i turned of a radio at my aunties house and i got shocked by 240v and couldn’t let go some one had to turn the socket of.

A good chance with enough power some ones heart could go into Arrhythmia this depends on path of current.
This depends on the path to ground if it travels through your arm or feet.
Sparkies have died from touching a grounded electrical box and live by accident.

The Sydney Morning Herald – 27 Jun 14

Faulty USB phone charger blamed for Sheryl Aldeguer's death

A mobile phone business faces prosecution over the death of a woman electrocuted by a faulty USB phone charger at her home on the NSW central coast.

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-22T07:16:15.000Z

Even if you wanted to electrocute yourself, e.g the traditional toaster dropped into the bath, never mind the head in the gas oven, you just can’t do it nowadays.

Which is all good.,

Nevertheless some bullsh&tters still seem to try to work out their own devious methods and publicise them.

Simple solution, two crocodile clips across the nipples, 240V, bypass every trip, then put it up on youtube. I’d really like to see that, in the case of this individual.

mrheosuper · 2018-12-22T14:08:30.000Z

[quote=Enderman]

mrheosuper:

The weller station starts smoking, there is no explosion, it does not catch fire when you’re away from home to burn down your house, it does not leak radioactive waste.
It simply dies.

it didn’t catch fire because he pulled out it quickly, at primary side, wire will be shorted together, after isulator has been burned out, the resistance drop, more power comes in, he did explain about it if you have watched whole video

20V would not cause a phone to explode. Quick charge already outputs 20V over USB, and if you plug a 5V phone into it then it will only output 5V.
Even if you did manage to hardwire 20V into a USB plug and plug your phone in it would just fry the circuit, just like with this soldering station.
Nothing explodes or is dangerous in any way.

nothing explode because the phone actually has a lot of FUSE, if they get rid all protective component, i bet it will explode.

You can plug 200V into a phone and it will not explode or blow your hand off. I think you have a severe misunderstanding of how electricity and electronics work.

i really doubt about this claim

everydaysurvivalgear · 2018-12-22T14:31:59.000Z

Tom Tom:

Even if you wanted to electrocute yourself, e.g the traditional toaster dropped into the bath, never mind the head in the gas oven, you just can’t do it nowadays.

Which is all good.,

Nevertheless some bullsh&tters still seem to try to work out their own devious methods and publicise them.

Simple solution, two crocodile clips across the nipples, 240V, bypass every trip, then put it up on youtube. I’d really like to see that, in the case of this individual.

Your weekends sound interesting lol.

Lexel · 2018-12-22T14:51:30.000Z

Tom Tom:

The Cat II isolation thing is important.

If you use a soldering iron in a professional environment, everything will be bonded to ground for ESD precautions.

The iron, every other bit of manufacturing and test equipment, work surfaces, workers’ bodies (wrist straps), even the floor, via heel straps (any idea how much conductive floor tiles or carpet costs, and how carefully they must be maintained ? I do)

But once you start bonding things together, you introduce a mode where a failure can, basically electrocute the operators, through their ESD protection stuff.

That’s why good kit is at least Cat II, and the ESD bonding point is not a direct connection to “ground” through the power cord, which should not exist. Rather through a high value resistor, such that any fault condition cannot pass a lethal current to the operator, who is hard-wired to it.

The standards applying to bathrooms, or medical devices, should be the bare minimum.

Weller know their stuff, and I trust them to make professional kit properly.

A copper and steel wound transformer is the perfect isolating device, nothing better. Switch mode PSUs are now very much cheaper, but have so many failure possibilities, even if the designer has any clue about the subtleties.

However stuffing 240V into one wound for 110V is never going to end well.

At least the man recognised that the polyfuse and PTC on the secondary saved the electronics from the over-load. I’d say that was robust engineering.

The man ’effed up, then chose to make a drama out of his mistake. Maybe some additional fuse might have shut it down sooner, but if his workshop was wired up properly it would have tripped that out in milliseconds.

I would not want to work there.

The upper line of Weller Irons got a plug where you can define the grounding of the tip with a bridge or resistor. They also got a fuse.

moderator007 · 2018-12-22T18:04:39.000Z

A Weller WE1010 (same as in video) with C13 US cord.

.
A EU cord with the same C13 plug.

.
They both plug right in.

Lexel · 2018-12-22T18:05:56.000Z

moderator007:

A Weller WE1010 with C13 US cord.

A EU cord with the same C13 plug.

They both plug right in.

but still you should not buy a 110V version in a 230V country,
if you moved from 110V country to 230V country you always check gear you plug in the first time if its labeled 110V or 230V to decide if you need a transformer to run it

moderator007 · 2018-12-22T18:12:23.000Z

Lexel:

moderator007:

A Weller WE1010 with C13 US cord.

A EU cord with the same C13 plug.

They both plug right in.

but still you should not buy a 110V version in a 230V country,
if you moved from 110V country to 230V country you always check gear you plug in the first time if its labeled 110V or 230V to decide if you need a transformer to run it

I’m not defending his stupid mistake if that’s even what it was.
He receives and buys crap all the time to review and test, is it possible he had a 120v version setting around that someone sent by mistake?
I don’t know but I can see how you would just grab one of 200 solder stations he has and just plug it in.

Enderman · 2018-12-22T19:15:21.000Z

mrheosuper:

it didn’t catch fire because he pulled out it quickly, at primary side, wire will be shorted together, after isulator has been burned out, the resistance drop, more power comes in, he did explain about it if you have watched whole video
nothing explode because the phone actually has a lot of FUSE, if they get rid all protective component, i bet it will explode.
i really doubt about this claim

If it was shorted then the breakers would cut the power to the wall plug. Do you know that every home/building has breakers in it?

2) No.

3) No. The only thing that can possibly explode in a phone is the lithium cell, and that needs to be punctured or physically damaged to explode.

Lightbringer · 2018-12-22T19:43:42.000Z

As much as I’m enjoying all the petty bickering, I think we can all agree on a few points.

First, it really is a good idea to fuse the power-cable within an inch of entering the cabinet. At least that’s what I always did even for simple stoopit linear power supplies, even before the main power-switch.

Second, yeah, it was kinda cheap and stoopit for Weller to “save” on a 5¢ fuse, even a small pigtail fuse hardwired into the circuit vs in a fancy replaceable fuseholder or anything.

Whether or not it was criminally negligent of Weller to skip it is what most people are p&m-ing about.

Third, it was even stooooooopiter for whuts-his-nuts to plug a 120V device into 240V mains, fuse or not.

IEC connectors are meant for the user’s convenience and the mfr’s convenience, as to not have to have/need dedicated sockets/cables for each country/voltage/frequency/whatever.

That about sum it up?

Anyway, please continue your petty bickering. I find it most intriguing.

atbglenn · 2018-12-22T19:54:30.000Z

I took a Belden steel power strip and replaced the 15 amp circuit breaker that feeds my soldering stations and hot air rework station with a 5 amp fast-blow ceramic fuse. So far I haven’t blown a fuse. Better to be safe than sorry I say.

moderator007 · 2018-12-22T20:08:15.000Z

Lightbringer:

As much as I’m enjoying all the petty bickering, I think we can all agree on a few points.

First, it really is a good idea to fuse the power-cable within an inch of entering the cabinet. At least that’s what I always did even for simple stoopit linear power supplies, even before the main power-switch.

Second, yeah, it was kinda cheap and stoopit for Weller to “save” on a 5¢ fuse, even a small pigtail fuse hardwired into the circuit vs in a fancy replaceable fuseholder or anything.

Whether or not it was criminally negligent of Weller to skip it is what most people are p&m-ing about.

Third, it was even stooooooopiter for whuts-his-nuts to plug a 120V device into 240V mains, fuse or not.

IEC connectors are meant for the user’s convenience and the mfr’s convenience, as to not have to have/need dedicated sockets/cables for each country/voltage/frequency/whatever.

That about sum it up?

Anyway, please continue your petty bickering. I find it most intriguing. :laughing:

Agreed!
Even a small thermal fuse would have been better than nothing.

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-26T17:20:38.000Z

Utter tripe.

He claims to be an electronic engineer. He plugged a 110V appliance designed for a different market region into an Australian 240V socket, which obviously was not wired up properly, otherwise the MCB would have tripped within 30 ms of the short developing. And if it had somehow shorted live, or even neutral, to the double insulated chassis, and there also was some sort of earth path, possibly through the operator, the RCD would also have tripped within 30 milliseconds (that’s a lot of ifs, in a row).

Both of which are far far faster than a fuse. These timings are set to minimise the chance of electrocution, you’d have to be quite unlucky to be killed by, or even notice a 30ms belt, but it still could happen.

All that drama about ripping out the lead from the back and chucking the smouldering wreckage into a box is nonsense. Unless he seriously had not a clue about how to wire up the mains in his shack, to regulations, and really genuinely managed to fry it by mistake, and idiocy.

Soldering really is simple stuff, no need to over-analyse, start simply, and practice. Materials and the tools are readily available. Don’t over-analyse this, pretty much anything that you can get your hands on, borrow, even steal, will work. Just get started, and learn.

By the way, it seems AUS wiring is very odd, to more sophisticated eyes. See discussion such as Changing plugs, No Fuses????? - Page 5 - British Expats for example.

As I said before, in the UK we still have fuses in our plugs, because of a legacy of dangerous 30A ring mains and consumer units containing fuses made with replaceable fuse wire, no MCBs, and no RCDs. That’s still what I have, and my house is only 30 years old. Good as new, not changing it until I’m forced to.

(that was irony by the way, not sure there is an emoticon for that)

Possibly we are the only ones left still doing so (and our ex-colonies)

If all that changed overnight there would be no need for fuses in plugs, or anywhere else.

A fuse is a very poor thing to place any trust in, when it comes to electrical safety. And embedding one inside an appliance, not easily user-replaceable or source-able generally creates much more nuisance than any theoretical benefit.

Necessary on multi meters and other such equipment that can be seriously abused by ignorance or simple error. But, my goodness they are expensive, the proper ones. That work, in the blink of an eye. To replace the fuse on my Fluke I could almost buy a complete equally capable UNI-T for similar money for example. With much the same fuse inside.

But needed on a soldering iron ? No I don’t think so. Turn it on, it gets hot (hopefully). Don’t leave it un-attended, unless you absolutely trust it. Even then, just don’t because you will oxidise the coating on the tip within minutes. A decent one will be ready to go in less than a minute from a cold start.

Bells and whistles by all means, but you can also waste a lot of time twiddling knobs and looking at displays, even seeking reassurance from random online forum people who you don’t know, instead of just learning how to solder intuitively. Practice makes perfect, there is no substitute, it is a skill. Some get it right away, others take time, the majority just can’t do it properly. Which, by the way can also be tested, and I’ve done a bit of that, as examiner.

Like welding, or paint spraying, or …

Jerommel · 2018-12-26T17:23:37.000Z

Tom Tom:

Utter tripe.

He claims to be an electronic engineer. He plugged a 110V appliance designed for a different market region into an Australian 240V socket

IEC mains input.
We’ve been through this…

moderator007 · 2018-12-26T18:04:22.000Z

Tom Tom:

A fuse is a very poor thing to place any trust in, when it comes to electrical safety. And embedding one inside an appliance, not easily user-replaceable or source-able generally creates much more nuisance than any theoretical benefit.

I’m not going to bicker back and forth with you on this statement but it really seems false to me.
You do know that most any DMM that can measure mains should have a fuse for safety,
my Fluke 87V does and thousands of people rely on it daily.
If it doesn’t have a fuse it’s considered very dangerous and poorly designed.
I realize its not a appliance but maybe that statement is just worded all wrong.

mattheww1950 · 2018-12-26T18:21:42.000Z

If it really was such an important safety issue, then the relevant UL and/or CE standard would require it. Neither UL or CE does (has anyone seen a washer, dryer, dishwasher, iron or electric stove with a built in fuse? I have not), and that in and of itself says that the level of stupidity required to make this error is very high. The only place I am aware of where it is a requirement is the UK, where most plugs are required to have a built in 13 amp fuse. I am not aware of a similar requirement anywhere else in the world. Most of the power supplies that have a built in fuse, are also designed for operation at either 120 or 240 volts, switch selectable, so on these devices it is an error that isn’t difficult to make. For most devices however, this is an error that requires considerable effort to make.

By definition a 120V plug will not fit into a 240V socket and vice versa. That is no accident either. So in order for this to happen, someone has to have messed up very badly either by attaching an incorrect plug, or using an incorrect socket for the intended voltage. UL does take safety very serious (CE much less so). I have built UL listed products, and the standards are indeed stringent. You even have to be careful about the direction of air flow in many products, and the articulated finger test can be a real nightmare.

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-26T20:38:52.000Z

moderator007:

Tom Tom:

A fuse is a very poor thing to place any trust in, when it comes to electrical safety. And embedding one inside an appliance, not easily user-replaceable or source-able generally creates much more nuisance than any theoretical benefit.

I’m not going to bicker back and forth with you on this statement but it really seems false to me.
You do know that most any DMM that can measure mains should have a fuse for safety,
my Fluke 87V does and thousands of people rely on it daily.
If it doesn’t have a fuse it’s considered very dangerous and poorly designed.
I realize its not a appliance but maybe that statement is just worded all wrong.

Yes,a DVM needs a fuse because you can usually connect it up to read Volts, or Amps, without even changing the probe connections.

Even if you had to, you could still stuff it up.

Multimeters are supposed to be used by skilled, trained, experienced people like me, but mostly are not. Even I have blown the fuse in a Fluke. Just once. And it was embarrassing to have to ask for another, from stores.

Just set that dial the wrong way, and connect it across a stiff voltage/current source and see what happens,

That fuse is there to protect the meter, and it’s leads, from frying. Nothing to do with “safety”.

|In a Fluke it is also usually a very expensive fast-blow fuse, that you won’t be able to source easily. It is so because it is also required to break very high voltages, very quickly, without arcing over etc. Which is also part of the certification that serious meters have to comply with.