I was looking to get a good UF C1 host with strike bezel, hopefully with a twisty. I generally loathe twisties, but the lack of any momentary-on tailcaps in the budget market has had me baffled. The UF C8 I got from Manafont (my very first XM-L you will remember) has a momentary-on tailcap. But I haven't been able to get any others - or any kind of torch that is budget - with momentary-ons. I even emailed Jim and he had no idea how he sold me the C8 I have with that feature. Weird, hun. Or maybe I just haven't known where to get them.
Solarforce has a wide array of lights with a forward (momentary) clicky. I personally dislike forward clickies on multi-mode lights, where mode switching is done via the main clicky.
You can buy them from various vendors and switch them yourself. I always avoided them but recently realized I like them a lot for weapon lights and my bedside light.
These fit the C-8, C-2, most 500 series Ultrafires as well as most Solarforce L series lights
http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1482
These fit smaller lights like the UF-2100, 502B and many many others.
http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1090
or make them yourself with these
The simple answer why momentary activated torches are few and far between in budget flashlights is in the name... Budget.
Lets define the momentary switch as a "forward clicky" type power switch. This type of Momentary on requires several changes to the design to be properly executed.
- Forward Clicky - this is the first change, and forward clickies are more complicated mechanically (couple extra parts). This makes the part more expensive. From the point of view of the end user buying single units as add-ons, this represents a switch that costs several times more than a reverse clicky.
- Size - Forward clickies are also longer because of the extra required components, and true integration does require the torch to be designed to accommodate this. Although a simple substitution can usually be done, it may require tweaking by the end user to get it to right.
- Reliability - forward clickies also tend to be less reliable because the nature of the switch in momentary modes allows the contact plates to come together with minimal forces, compared to reverse clickys which force the contacts together with significant force and speed every time you turn it on/off. How is this significant? its very significant in high power torches, especially switch mode based drivers. High power draw can cause sparking at the contacts when they first touch, which causes a degradation in the quality of the contact though oxidation and surface roughness (i.e. increased resistance --> flickery connections). When a switch is activated, the contacts on a microscopic level actually bounce and make contact many times before stopping. Imagine dropping a ball to the ground, it will bounce several times before coming to a stop. Every time a contact is made, if there is high power draw, there could be a small spark every time the contacts come together. A reverse clicky will have lots of spring force behind every action and this minimises the bouncing. A forward clicky tends to allow more contact bouncing when the switch is pushed slowly, and therefore for the same number of "switching" it may bounce more times, and experience a faster contact degradation. In addition to this, sparking can be reduced by having minimal power draw when the switch first makes contact, but soft starts are almost never considered in cheap drivers, infact some cheap drivers have huge inrush current, I have an XM-L driver that micro welds my alligator clips to the circuit every time I turn it on! This further reinforces why a forward clicky isn't that great an idea.
- UI - Budgetlight UIs involve turning the power on/off. This is because this is the cheapest way of achieving multiple modes. Essentially it requires zero additional hardware parts, and significantly simplifies the engineering and manufacturing of a torch, i.e. no change in the hardware from a single mode torch. A forward clicky can simply be substituted but the power on/off UI becomes more effort to use, and doesn't give you a true momentary mode if the brightness changes every time.
- True UI - The only way you can get forward clicky to feel right and actually be useful is if you 1) have a single mode torch, or 2) have a UI that doesn't involve the power switch, 3) or an electronically switched UI. A UI that doesn't involve the power switch is quite probably the main reason why you don't see many forward clicky torches in the budget light area. Designing an alternate control system requires design that involves more than just a tube with a reflector/led/driver/swtich. Magnetic control systems, secondary switches, head twists; These are examples of possible methods of controlling away from the power switch, but these require extra effort/design/manufacturing/and importantly COST. I would guess it could double the cost of an item quite quickly. When a product is aiming for a low price point, this "feature" doesn't give you any extra "lumens", and we all know "lumens" is what sells to the masses.... Would the joe average buy torch; a) 400 lumen magnetic control momentary; or b) 800 lumen 10 mode MEGA bright LED police tacticool light. Especially if the latter sells at half the price. Your average customer may not even be aware of the existence of forward/reverse clickys, but sure can understand 400 vs 800 lumens.
So thats a basic summary of why forward clickies are not a common feature in budget lights. The simple answer is that you need either make one yourself (hardware and software wise), or pay for the upgrades in the hardware/UI/electronics design to get a proper momentarily activated light.
Lets throw in some examples which come to mind;
- V10R/V10A/M10R/M10A. - CR123/AA - Essentially most sunwayman lights have magnetic control, rear forward clicky dedicated to power on/off only. - $60-90
- Nitecore Defender - AA light with a twist head UI - tight for high, loose has a programmable brightness between 1-100%. - $60
- 4 sevens Quark Tactical line - programmable 2 mode torch with head tight/loose - $50+
- Armytek Predator - 18650 - head tight/loose, fully programmable, up to 10 modes for each tight/loose state - $100-140
- Novatac 120P (or 'cracked' consumer model (storm/wichita etc..)) - CR123 - fully electronic switching, has momentary mode as a programmable feature, can be turned on/off. Its a compromise, its not Quite momentary all the time, but does very well with one of the best designed UIs around. - $40-100
So as we can see, we do move into a different territory, with generally higher cost brackets which deliver the necessary improvements across all grounds (build quality/design/software). All the above have UIs that are significantly more complicated (costly), and functionally separate from the power switch(costly). As I established earlier, the only way to achieve your goal is to deliver a improved 'total package' that can properly utilise and deliver the functionality of a true momentary function with a forward clicky, and that comes at a cost.
Just for clarification, I was under the impression that Rusty Joe was talking about a switch like the one found on a Surefire G2N where, even if you pushed the button in all the way, there was no "click" and upon release of the preasure the light would go off, again, without an audible "click". On this type of switch you would have to screw down the tail cap to have constant on. If this is what he was lookig for, than Solarforce sells one. You can also buy it on some of their lights, like this particular L2m host.
If I've misunderstood the OP, my apologies.
Regarding (specifically) Twisty-momentary designs...
I think the advantages cater more towards weapon mounting and bomb-proof rugged (SHTF) kinds of applications. Where you either need max-ON or OFF... or a rugged failure-proof design. Switches like this are really awkward to use with multi-mode circuits... IMHO
Pros:
-Simplified construction
-No complex moving mechanical parts to fail
-Many are lockout designs (no accidental turn ons)
So I don't think they really benefit hand-held, multi mode designs. IMHO forward or reverse clicky switches are better for these applications.
The other thing too is Surefire has a US-patent on the switchless momentary twisty, with firmly attached internals. So in other words, the only way for a company to make a momentary-ON twisty, is to leave the switch gutts as a completely floating "pill" design so that it can come apart when the tailcap is removed. I have a TOP stryker with a design like this and it pretty much sux... having the switch guts fall out. I think most companies realize this and avoid the design all together. Solarforce has a momentary twisty though, it would be interesting to see how they get around this, or if theirs is also free to fall out.
Nice post Okwchin. Very informative. Thanks for taking the time.
If you simply want a forward clicky to replace a reverse clicky (which would include having a momentary feature) you can buy them for about $2 from Shiningbeam and having them delivered in a few days after you order them (instead of several weeks).
Just get the replacement switches for the Rominsen lights. It’s easy to replace the reverse switches with those in most lights. Shipping will be more than the part but I just ordered 5 switches and it was well worth it.
Momentary with twist head mode change is my favorite. Are there any budget lights like that? Could a light be modded to be like that?
+ 1
superb post. thanks from my part as well.
I have an old saberlite knock off(Hubblelite) that originally had a xenon bulb/reflector with a twisty head. No switch. The threads bring the metal reflector into contact with metal strips that extend from the spring up to just shy of contact. I made a pill that contained the driver and xpg led and it works as the original only with modes. Converted from 3-C to 3- sub-C. Another 8-AA Technalite was a similar twist on dive light that now has a switch below the pack and uses the mass of the batteries to activate the switch. Jog for modes, bump for on-off. The saber requires 2 hands, the technalite 1.
Nice post, okwchin, but I take issue with #5, in terms of "feeling right and being useful". The UI on a forward clicky is quite easy, the major difference with a rear clicky being that with a Forward clicky, you select the mode you want before you click the light fully on.
With a Reverse clicky, you click the light on and then select the mode.
I also find that being able to have "momentary light" without having to turn the torch on and off again can be quite useful.
I think it is more a matter of what you are used to, than one being better or worse than the other.
BTW, my thoughts on head "twisty" UI. Even though my Caveman has it, I don't like it. Shouldn't have to use two hands (or shift your grip) to change modes, its just not right.
okwchin -
Oddly, I felt compelled to read all of that . . . and I'm glad I did. Thought I knew everything about switches.
Foy
Guess you are going to have to get a larger hat, what with all the extra knowledge growing the brain. Your IQ likely went up too, so you can brag to your friends about that. Plus you've really inspired me to improve myself by learning something new today.
All kidding aside, the exchange of information coupled with the relaxed environment makes this forum the best place I visit on any given day.