Why the U.S. doesn't use the metric system

hank · 2018-12-05T21:20:08.000Z

Yep

Nov. 10, 1999: A disaster investigation board reports that NASA’s Mars Climate Orbiter burned up in the Martian atmosphere because engineers failed to convert units from English to metric.

Nov. 10, 1999: Metric Math Mistake Muffed Mars Meteorology Mission | WIRED

MtnDon · 2018-12-05T21:32:44.000Z

Lexel:

……wrong translation to metric unit system……

Reminds me of the “Gimli Glider” situation; Air Canada, 1983 Right near where I was living at the time.

en.wikipedia.org

Gimli Glider

Air Canada Flight 143, commonly known as the Gimli Glider, was a Canadian scheduled domestic passenger flight between Montreal and Edmonton that ran out of fuel on Saturday, July 23, 1983, at an altitude of 41,000 feet (12,500 m), midway through the flight. The flight crew successfully glided the Boeing 767 to an emergency landing at a former Royal Canadian Air Force base in Gimli, Manitoba, which had been converted to a racetrack, Gimli Motorsports Park. It resulted in no serio The incident w...

TheIntruder · 2018-12-05T22:43:47.000Z

e1000:

Serious question, are all passenger car wheels around the world measured in inches? I genuinely want to know.

Effectively, yes. Michelin introduced a new tire/wheel system with a bead design to better cope with the advent of lower profile tires in the 70s, with the TRX tires and TR rims that had metric diameters (i.e. 190/65-390). It was utilized by a handful of OEMs, mostly for sports cars, but nothing beyond that, and it fizzled out.

Lightbringer:

Worse than you imagine… eg, a 225/60/14 tire has a tread-width of 225mm, an aspect ratio of 60% (sidewall ÷ width), all on a 14” rim.

The first number, 225, is not tread width, but section width, representing the widest section of the tire from the outer to inner sidewall, when mounted on the standard specified width wheel (“Measuring Rim Width”) for that particular tire size.

Tread width is not a standardized dimension so it shouldn’t be considered comparable between different manufacturers.

Lightbringer · 2018-12-05T22:50:56.000Z

MtnDon:

That has nothing to do with the system of measurement. That has all to do with Greed. Greed is pretty much universal though perhaps more noticeable when large corporations are running the show. It does pay to be able to read and do math.

Mmmm, yes’n’no.

2L bottles of sody-pop were accepted because they were similar in size to typische half-gallon bottles, ’though milk still comes in half-gallon jugs.

Were 2L less than ½gal, it probably wouldn’t’ve been accepted as well. After all, now you’re “getting more!”.

Yards to meters, okay. Feet to meters, divide by ~3? Not so much.

I remember the “5/8ths rule” to go from miles to kilometers and back (guesstimate as roughly half/double), but I have no clue what’s the constant to go from mpg to km/L. And L vs gal at the gas-pump? Might as well people to convert from dollars to quatloos.

So yeah, there’s some greed to it, but it’s what units you ultimately can “think in”.

I always hated am/pm, ferinstance, so ages ago started going to 24hr time, setting all my watches/clocks to 24hr time, etc., and now I can “think in” 24hr time. Until that happened, I always had to add/subtract 12 as needed.

Going imperial ⇆ metric? People ain’t gonna wanna do it, not without being clubbed over the head with a metric bat.

BlueSwordM · 2018-12-05T22:53:25.000Z

@Lightbringer, did retailers actually try to make a pound 400g rather than 450g?

How did they think that was going to fly?

It’s not like the situation with a 1/2 lb burger and 1/4 lb burger fiasco at Burger King and Macdonalds where people are just bad at math.

Lightbringer · 2018-12-05T22:55:53.000Z

MtnDon:

Reminds me of the “Gimli Glider” situation; Air Canada, 1983

Yep, did that in the flightsim just to see how I’d fare. (Actually landed w/o crashing!)

No 767 in my stable, so had to do it in the 737 or 777 (I think the latter).

Lightbringer · 2018-12-05T22:59:35.000Z

TheIntruder:

The first number, 225, is not tread width, but section width, representing the widest section of the tire from the outer to inner sidewall, when mounted on the standard specified width wheel (“Measuring Rim Width”) for that particular tire size.

Tread width is not a standardized dimension so it shouldn’t be considered comparable between different manufacturers.

Yeh, but I couldn’t think of the term offhand.

I found that out trying to figure what’s the widest tire I could stuff onto a particular rim. Tire Rack or someone similar had those online calculators for max/min width, etc.

Henk4U2 · 2018-12-05T23:07:34.000Z

TheIntruder:

… Michelin introduced a new tire/wheel system with a bead design to better cope with the advent of lower profile tires in the 70s, with the TRX tires and TR rims that had metric diameters (i.e. 190/65-390). It was utilized by a handful of OEMs, mostly for sports cars, but nothing beyond that, and it fizzled out.

Wow, was not aware of that piece of information.
What I do know is that a few decades ago I owned a feisty little car that sat on 165/65 R 340 TRX tires.

A big pothole in the streets of Rotterdam caused a ding in one of the mag wheels and turned it into a liability.
That’s why I use it up until this day as a spool for my garden hose.

Lightbringer · 2018-12-05T23:04:29.000Z

BlueSwordM:

@Lightbringer, did retailers actually try to make a pound 400g rather than 450g?

How did they think that was going to fly?

It’s not like the situation with a 1/2 lb burger and 1/4 lb burger fiasco at Burger King and Macdonalds where people are just bad at math.

Me? Unno, think TomTom posted that.

Wouldn’t surprise me, though, selling someone short, under the guise of “making it easier” for the dumb-as-a-post customer.

—

Oh yeh, what about the burgers? Is this the asterisked microprint “before cooking” dealy?

I was reminded of the actual 11” Subway “footlong” hero that people sued ’em over.

Bad enough, though. Used to be on a footlong you’d get 8 meatballs, or 4- or 8 slices of meat, but now I started counting only 7 meatballs, and only 3- or 6 slices of meat. Wtf??

BlueSwordM · 2018-12-05T23:06:46.000Z

@Lightbringer, what happened is that Burger King was selling 1/2 pound burgers, and MD 1/4 pound burgers, for the same price.

Guess which outsold which? MacDonald’s.

Why because? Because a large number of customers actually thought that the 1/4 pound burgers were actually bigger than 1/2 pound burgers.

MtnDon · 2018-12-05T23:09:27.000Z

If you can get used to a clock that has a 24-hour face you can change from US Imperial to metric, IMO. It may take a generation or two to complete the switch, but change can happen. I grew up in Canada using the Canadian/British Imperial system. Traveling to the US early in life I got used to having to account for the difference in the size between the volume measurements (smaller US gallon, quart, etc.) but the same linear and weight measurements.

In Canada, I used metric measurements in some aspects of my employment before Canada went metric. Then after Canada began the switch to metric I moved to the US where everything was in US Imperial. I adapted. I have traveled in the EU a fair amount. After a while, you can get to use and relate to whatever the local system of measurement is without having to think or convert between systems. Much like if/when you are fluently bilingual you can converse in English, French, Spanish, whatever, without actually having to consciously translate from one language to another.

DavidEF · 2018-12-06T00:11:03.000Z

It’s actually easier to speak various different languages fluently without trying to convert them in your head. I’m sure it’s the same with measurement systems.

BlueSwordM · 2018-12-06T00:21:35.000Z

Qu’est-ce que tu veux dire par là?

Ok, you’re right…

Tom_Tom · 2018-12-06T00:53:32.000Z

Lightbringer:

BlueSwordM:

@Lightbringer, did retailers actually try to make a pound 400g rather than 450g?

How did they think that was going to fly?

It’s not like the situation with a 1/2 lb burger and 1/4 lb burger fiasco at Burger King and Macdonalds where people are just bad at math.

Me? Unno, think TomTom posted that.

Wouldn’t surprise me, though, selling someone short, under the guise of “making it easier” for the dumb-as-a-post customer.

—

Oh yeh, what about the burgers? Is this the asterisked microprint “before cooking” dealy?

I was reminded of the actual 11” Subway “footlong” hero that people sued ’em over.

Bad enough, though. Used to be on a footlong you’d get 8 meatballs, or 4- or 8 slices of meat, but now I started counting only 7 meatballs, and only 3- or 6 slices of meat. Wtf??

Yes, it really was tried out, but wasn’t accepted, unsurprisingly.

BTW one pound is actually 453.592 grams, and maybe a little bit different (precision does matter in some circumstances, rocketry being one).

Though the inch became metricated, for convenience, so now is precisely 25.4 mm. A sad day, though perhaps Kings thumbs widths were not thought to be as precise as laser interferometers (or bars of metal kept in Parisian vaults).

As for the pound sterling (as opposed to a pound of sterling silver), see: Pound sterling - Wikipedia

It’s still the third most important trading currency in the world, after the dollar and the euro (pah).

And by no means a lame duck, if anything becoming rather too strong for my liking. It seems many still see it as something to be relied on, in times of turmoil. Doesn’t help export businesses or the tourist trade though, the days of dollar/euro/pound parity are long gone. The Swiss Franc (they were also never so stupid as to join in to the Euro nonsense) is an extreme example of this problem, also far too strong. I remember when there were four to £1

Even give me a Krone of any Scandinavian source (perhaps not Icelandic), over the Euro.

Meanwhile happy to have between 12% or 28% more money in my pocket than a few years ago.

The Independent – 7 Dec 18

Pound rises against dollar and euro as chances of UK remaining in EU increase

Unprecedented string of three defeats for the government and a key decision on Brexit from Europe’s top court sent sterling up

“Names
The full official name pound sterling (plural: pounds sterling), is used mainly in formal contexts and also when it is necessary to distinguish the United Kingdom currency from other currencies with the same name. Otherwise the term pound is normally used. The currency name is sometimes abbreviated to just sterling, particularly in the wholesale financial markets, but not when referring to specific amounts; for example, ”Payment is accepted in sterling” but never “These cost five sterling”. The abbreviations “ster.” and “stg.” are sometimes used. The term “British pound” is sometimes incorrectly used in less formal contexts, and it is not an official name of the currency.

The exchange rate of the pound sterling against the US Dollar is referred to as “cable” in the wholesale foreign exchange markets. The origins of this term are attributed to the fact that in the 1800s, the GBP/USD exchange rate was transmitted via transatlantic cable. Forex traders of GBP/USD are sometimes referred to as “cable dealers”.[15] GBP/USD is now the only currency pair with its own name in the foreign exchange markets, after IEP/USD, known as “wire” particularly in the forward FX markets, no longer exists after the Irish Pound was replaced by the euro in 1999.

There is apparent convergence of opinion[citation needed] regarding the origin of the term “pound sterling”, toward its derivation from the name of a small Norman silver coin,[16] and away from its association with Easterlings (Germanic traders) or other etymologies.[17][18] Hence, the Oxford English Dictionary (and sources derived therefrom)[19][20] state that the “most plausible” etymology is derivation from the Old English steorra for “star” with the added diminutive suffix “-ling”, to mean “little star” and to refer to a silver penny of the English Normans.[16] As another established source notes,[21] the compound expression was then derived:

silver coins known as “sterlings” were issued in the Saxon kingdoms, 240 of them being minted from a pound of silver… Hence, large payments came to be reckoned in “pounds of sterlings,” a phrase later shortened…

— Encyclopædia Britannica, entry “pound sterling”
However, the perceived narrow window of the issuance of this coin, and the fact that coin designs changed frequently in the period in question, led Philip Grierson to reject this in favour of a more complex theory.[22]

Another argument that the Hanseatic League was the origin for both the origin of its definition and manufacture, and in its name is that the German name for the Baltic is “Ost See”, or “East Sea”, and from this the Baltic merchants were called “Osterlings”, or “Easterlings”. In 1260, Henry III granted them a charter of protection and land for their Kontor, the Steelyard of London, which by the 1340s was also called “Easterlings Hall”, or Esterlingeshalle.[23] Because the League’s money was not frequently debased like that of England, English traders stipulated to be paid in pounds of the “Easterlings”, which was contracted to “’sterling”.[24]

For further discussion of the etymology of “sterling”, see sterling silver.”

BTW, Continentals measure their “fuel consumption” in litres/100 km, which is just upside down to me. Bigger numbers = better, I think. If it takes me 1/10 of the trip meter reading in miles, to fill my tank in litres, then I know I doing at least 45 mpg (in imperial gallons, not the little ones, actually 45.4609 mpg), which is decent.

Lightbringer · 2018-12-06T00:56:30.000Z

BlueSwordM:

Why because? Because a large number of customers actually thought that the 1/4 pound burgers were actually bigger than 1/2 pound burgers.

:person_facepalming:

I should be surprised, but…

hank · 2018-12-06T01:08:47.000Z

“little star”

Oh, it’s a starling!
—————
I sure wish I’d saved my 1950s silver coins …. if I could go back and warn my childhood self about inflation and debasement ….

e1000 · 2018-12-06T01:18:04.000Z

Tally-ho:

This doesn’t inherently make the metric system any better. Nature is full of odd numbers and ugly math. Pi, Speed of light, speed of sound, etc.

Even the current definition of a metre is defined as the distance the speed of light travels in a vacuum in some really ugly fraction of a second. Really ugly fraction, you know what that sounds like? An Imperial measurement!

Plus, fractions are better than decimals.

wahoowad · 2018-12-06T01:20:52.000Z

We became a pretty good country with our own system.

In fact we have hordes of people trying to get in any way they can, including breaking our laws to be here.

Yourrid · 2018-12-06T02:02:47.000Z

I always enjoy this image

In all fairness, I find using millimeters and centimeters a lot easier to use. Nothing like your buddy holding an 11/16 wrench asking for the next size larger and you hand him a 5/8 Whereas saying “hey man, this 10mm is too small, gimme the 11mm.”

Also, whoever decided to divide up a tape measure into 16 increments is a real jerk. It’s a real struggle (for me) to look at the line under the red arrow and know the exact fraction. Whereas a MM/CM tape measure is much easier to gauge (in my opinion).

Yourrid · 2018-12-06T02:03:55.000Z

wahoowad:

We became a pretty good country with our own system.

In fact we have hordes of people trying to get in any way they can, including breaking our laws to be here.

HAHAHHAHA OMG this is the best