Would you accept this?

Yes, M21A to the right. Everything is placed on the floor and in level to point the beam to the ceiling.
Not pointing this or that way. Straight up.

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Yes, they are straight to the point (roof). The shape of the beam pattern is the problem I asked about your opinion.

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I was analysing better and I guess the problem was not in the M21A but in the M1 !
The LED used is the Osram W1 that normally causes this kind of problem, specially with smooth reflectors.

To minimize the effect, you can try to screw a little bit more or unscrew a little bit the bezel of the flashlight and see if it solves the issue. However, I cannot guarantee you that it will be OK when pointing it towards a white wall. Another solution would be changing or modifying the gasket (that white piece around the LED) but that takes much more energy, time and resources and is a try an error exercise.

I can tell because I had that issue when I modded my Eagle Eye X3R and my Convoy S2 with this kind of LED.

If you use it outside you will not feel it too much, though.

So, looking at to your initial questions, it is annoying but given the difficulty to center this LED in particular, it can be seen as “acceptable” in a certain way.

You can find some more information on this thread:

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Thank you for your answer.
Yes, maybe it’s just a “white wall” issue, but my other lights don’t have this problem.
I’m new, so maybe I was just surprised about how bad those LED looks in those host. It do show even outdoor tho.
I also tried an OP reflector, helps, but not much. I guess those OSRAM LED with this host is just not my thing. The L21B looks best and I was really surprised how intense the throw was.

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If I am right, from left to right this is the M1, L21B, and M21A.

Is this correct?
If so, yes the M1 is slightly misaligned, but not that bad. I wouldn’t be concerned.
The L21B also not that bad.
Neither of these will be noticeable when used at a distance.
The worst one is the M21A to my eyes. It is like an ellipse.
Again, if you are not lighting up something close like a wall or ceiling, it will not be very noticeable, if at all.

You could contact Simon at Convoy and send him the photos. If they are out of tolerance, he will work with you.

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I realize that I put the flashlight from left to right. The beam is what it is. Noticeable also in nature, not a white wall problem.
I told Simon, waiting for a reply.

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imo, the reason it looks like an ellipse is that the camera angle is not looking straight at the beam

with all due respect, the reason the reflection is not symmetrical, is because the camera angle is looking from the side.

If the camera angle was straight down on one light at a time, the reflection can be made to appear centerted

but since you took one photo of three lights in a single image, the camera is looking at the lights from an angle

there is no problem with the lights… the photos are not valid perspectives by which to judge there is a problem

try not to worry

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It’s a hard emitter to center and the smooth reflector makes it worse. Like others have suggested try unscrewing the bezel to loosen up the reflector a bit and tightening it back up and see if just that made any difference.
Some people here have spent hours getting an emitter perfectly aligned to get the absolute maximum candela out of a mod .
Next obvious question is can you move the mcpcb .
Some more experienced here might say don’t mess with it because there’s a good chance it could get worse before it gets better . That’s not to say you can’t get the emitter centered better but that it may not be super simple .

sorry for not originally understanding your question

Well, a picture is a picture… The problem with how it looks remains the same when I use only my eyes.
Maybe I’m wrong and expect to much, but I will definitely think twice before buying a light with any of these emitters again.

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Usually the problem is not the emitter. Though some are harder to get right than others. Any beam problems are in the design and/or construction of the optics… like reflector. More often than not, it is centering in the reflector (edit: or reflector height above the led). Which is why everyone was asking you to take a picture, one light at a time, from directly over the center of the reflector . When you are directly over it with the camera, you should see the LED reflected evenly in the reflector of the light when the camera is in the right place. You need to also avoid other light from room lighting that is reflected . You should only see the led. (turned OFF BTW) A picture like that can, maybe, reveal if anything is misaligned . Sometimes this is an easy fix.

I will be interested to hear what Simon says to your inquiry.

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The emitters are okay. You might need to center the reflector correctly around the emitter. This can be done by unscrewing the bezel, rotating the relector, and carefully screwing the bezel down.

A thicker gasket might be required to focus the L21B so that it throws further. The bezel can he unscrewed, reflector lifted out, and two gaskets placed around the emitter (get two, glue them, sand down gasket to correct height?). I wouldn’t do this unless you have a light meter to measure the lux and calculate the beam distance. Maybe it’s okay and I’m making assumptions…

Thank you all for the answers and advice on how to fix this. I really appreciate it!
I do use all of my flashlights in situe, I’m not just “white wall hunting”
I tried all of the advice and maybe I was just asking for to much… But, on the other hand, should the flashlight you pay for not live up to what is advertised? Should I really expect, and know, that they will look this, in my opinion, bad?
It’s just “how it is” and it’s ok?

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It’s not like that. The picture is accurate showing how it looks.

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I got a similar comet shape of the beam on a homebuilt light, even with a perfectly centered reflector. It turned out the LED was not reflowed in a flat position, so the axis of the LED and that of the reflector were not parallel and not identical, but formed a tiny angle. It turned out to be virtually impossible to correct this with tens of reflow tries. I had to put some Kapton tape under the reflector to mount it a bit crooked.
Another successful try was to galvanize the LED to the MCPCB, which worked, but will not be massproduction-proof and I don’t think that tiny amount of bonding material will take long to rupture with thermal stress cycles.

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Could them all being fitted with the Osram LED which has the rectangular shaped light emitting area not be helping?

In my experience these are really hard leds to have perfectly centered. Beam shape might change even if you hit the light to something. That’s actually how I fine tune them. :grin:

Thank you for your answer!
So, do you think those LED should be sold including this information? I mean, I bought them without no information whatsoever about this from the seller.

Lots of people have these lights. There are lots of reviews out there with beam shots. I think I have read most of them, as I have all of the lights myself. I have seen no similar complaints (not that there aren’t any, I just haven’t seen them) so one or more of the following applies:
It is not a general problem.
Some people don’t care.
You are pretty unlucky
You are more sensitive to this kind of thing than many others.
Regardless of which one or ones of them that are true, Simon apparently doesn’t seem to think it is a problem that needs to be mentioned in his ad copy.
BTW, did you ever get a response from him? I am curious as to what he said. Every time I have had any problems with his lights, he has worked with me. A couple of times he just sent me a new light. I would think you should be able to work something out with him.

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At least they have the nice green AR lenses! :smiley:

But they also have smooth reflectors which is great for throw, but not forgiving with imperfections. From what I can see with your pics, everything looks great. I’m not sure how you could improve the assembly since the LEDs look very centered.

You could try to loosen the LEDs and tighten again to see if the beams improved. I’ve done that in the past with flashlights without LED gaskets, but usually the gaskets make that unnecessary.

To me, it seems like a natural consequence of the LED and reflector combinations.

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Many reflector lights do this. It’s not that the LED wasn’t centered, it’s rather the reflector not being positioned perpendicular to the MCPCB. And that’s only natural when it has some play in the head.

Do this: Loosen the bezel slightly up to a point where you can give the head a firm nudge from the side so the beam pattern changes. You basically need to hit it on the side where there’s less spill. At some point, the beam will be symmetrical.

Had to do this with many lights.