Massive fraud on 18650s in the Littokala Aliexpress stores!

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Agro
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I got Aliexpress judgement:

  • They agreed with me that the cells are counterfeit
  • They didn’t accept my evidence that IR is higher because they wanted a movie instead of photos
  • They proposed a resolution: full refund
  • They asked both me and seller to accept or reject the proposal

So it’s still open.

manithree
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Well, I’m done with liitokala. I ordered a 26650 on 1 Jan, and they’ve repeatedly told me that it’s almost here, in spite of the fact that the tracking number was bogus. I finally demanded a refund, and now they’re just shovelling all this crap at me in messages on aliexpress about how they’ve proved to me that I received the package (they haven’t) and we’ve talked on the phone (we haven’t).

This was the Official Store (217753). I’m never ordering anything from any Liitokala store on aliexpress again. I can overlook selling new batteries as 30Qs, even if they don’t look exactly like them, but have pretty similar capacity and max current. That might not even be the store’s fault. But when their customer service (Ashley Zhang) thinks I have no capacity to tell her lies from the truth, I’m done. With the whole brand. When my Lii-500s need replacing, I’m not buying Liitokala chargers.

Buyer beware.

Nachtfeuerzeug
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Send Richard 'RMM' (Mountain Electronics) your address. I'll contact him to order one of these for you:

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_108&product_id=679

I don't need your info. This one is on me.

manithree
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BROODMASTER wrote:

Send Richard ‘RMM’ (Mountain Electronics) your address. I’ll contact him to order one of these for you:

Thank you. I appreciate the offer, but I gave up on getting the Liitokala battery months ago and bought one from either mtn or liionwholesale.

I’m less annoyed about losing $6 or a battery than I am about the horrible “customer service”.

Nachtfeuerzeug
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manithree wrote:
BROODMASTER wrote:

Send Richard 'RMM' (Mountain Electronics) your address. I'll contact him to order one of these for you:

Thank you. I appreciate the offer, but I gave up on getting the Liitokala battery months ago and bought one from either mtn or liionwholesale. I'm less annoyed about losing $6 or a battery than I am about the horrible "customer service".

They're on my black list too.  Thank you for relaying your experience and great to hear you got the batteries you needed!

TheAuditor
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WalkIntoTheLight wrote:
Yohan110 wrote:
I purchased a 4 pack of 30q’s from the Liitokala Factory Store. What is the best way to test if they are legit when they arrive?

First, check the physical characteristics of the can, wrapping, code, and contacts. You can search to see what they should be, or compare them against a known legit cell.

Then, check the capacity (should be around 2900mAh). Then charge it up and make sure it holds voltage with a drop of no more than 0.002v per day (after the first day).

Then, make sure it’s high drain. If you have a BLF Q8, you can run it off a single cell. Even a flat top will work in the Q8, but be careful when tightening. You should get about 2500 lumen output from a single 30Q. Or at least try it in another high-drain light to make sure it behaves as expected.

After all that, it could still be fake. But, there are more expensive cells than a 30Q to fake, so it’s unlikely a 30Q fake would be so “good” as to pass the above tests.

So I did all this with mine and they all work. They must be a pretty high current cell to run a Q8 on one cell. I’m not feeling quite so bad about it now.

Bonum commune communitatis.

Yarp.

CJ Avlis
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JordanZHP wrote:
CJ Avlis wrote:
CJ Avlis wrote:
Hmmm…seems as though PayPal automatically escalated my case from a dispute up to a claim.

I was not in the mood for the usual back and forth nonsense. I went through PayPal right off…skipped the suggestion of contacting seller 1st. Within a handful of days, got notified that my“claim” was being investigated…5 or 6 days after…refund Just my opinion…but I assumed there were enough active claims, that PP didn’t feel like playing games either?

Full refund from PayPal.

Should I dispute the purchase through AliExpress or through paypal?

bullpupfan
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good to hear you got your money back.

so where is everyone getting some good quality batteries that will work in the BLF Q8 or others?

Thanks i’m searching right now for a reputable source for my first purchase.

Nachtfeuerzeug
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bullpupfan wrote:
good to hear you got your money back. so where is everyone getting some good quality batteries that will work in the BLF Q8 or others? Thanks i'm searching right now for a reputable source for my first purchase.

 

There's quite a few...Moutain Electronics, is the best!

But Orbtronic was good too.

I'm sure you'll get a number of other suggestions.

bullpupfan
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BROODMASTER wrote:

bullpupfan wrote:
good to hear you got your money back. so where is everyone getting some good quality batteries that will work in the BLF Q8 or others? Thanks i’m searching right now for a reputable source for my first purchase.

 


There’s quite a few…Moutain Electronics, is the best!


But Orbtronic was good too.


I’m sure you’ll get a number of other suggestions.

Sweet thanks Broodmaster. I will check those out now!

CJ Avlis
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bullpupfan wrote:
good to hear you got your money back.

so where is everyone getting some good quality batteries that will work in the BLF Q8 or others?

Thanks i’m searching right now for a reputable source for my first purchase.

Mountain Electronics

Li Ion Wholesale

IMR Batteries…

are 3 trustworthy sites for US buyers. Fair prices, good communication, and fast processing/shipping.

I’ve had dozens of great transactions over the last year with all 3.

ActiveAl
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ActiveAl wrote:

JackJax wrote:
Doesn't the lii-500 indicate internal resistance on one of the bays? What does that show for these?

All four of the Lii-500 slots will provide an internal resistance reading, but the problem is, for me, that the readings are untrustworthy. Here are measurements taken of the six LiitoKala 30Qs I got from the LiitoKala Factory Store:

Internal Resistance Measurements (mΩ)
Cell Slot One Slot Two Slot Three

Slot Four

1 15 47 32 33
2 10 16 10 33
3 10 10 44 10
4 10 33 10 32
5 31 10 10 10
6 10 10 10 10

 

A reading was taken for each battery in each slot of the Lii-500. I spun the cells in the slots a little or put a little extra pressure on the spring to ensure good contact. Maybe these values show a trend, or maybe my machine is malfunctioning and they  are completely worthless. What bothers me is that I can't get consistent (repeatable) readings to any degree. 

So I recently ordered a Battery Resistance Voltmeter Internal Impedance Meter LCD Rechargeable SM8124A. Perhaps it will provide some IR measurement consistency I can hang my hat on.      

 

My Battery-Resistance-Voltmeter-Internal-Impedance-Meter-LCD-Rechargeable-SM8124A arrived today and, using it, I took measurements of the six LiitoKala Factory 30Q batteries (Table 1), and six 30Q batteries purchased from Orbtronics (Table 2). The tabulated data indicate two things: (1) The LiitoKala Factory batteries are not 30Qs, and (2) the SM8124A resistance meter (a) provides consistent internal resistance readings that are reasonable, and (b) is a valid tool for comparing batteries.      

Table 1 - LiitoKala Factory Store 30Q

Internal Resistance Measurements (mΩ)

Cell Trial One Trial Two Trial Three

Trial Four

Avg

1 27.8 29.0 28.9 29.1 28.5
2 25.5 25.5 25.4 25.4 25.5
3 25.5 25.4  25.5 26.6 25.5
4 27.7 27.8 28.0

28.0

27.9
5 26.3 26.2 26.3 26.2 26.3
6 25.2 25.2 25.2 25.3 25.2

 

Table 2 - Orbtronics 30Q

Internal Resistance Measurements (mΩ)

Cell Trial One Trial Two Trial Three

Trial Four

Avg

1 11.4 11.4 11.4 11.3 11.4
2 11.4 11.5 11.3 11.4 11.4
3 11.4 11.5 11.4 11.3 11.4
4 11.4 11.4 11.4 11.4 11.4
5 11.7 11.7 11.7 11.9 11.8
6 11.5 11.4 11.4 11.3 11.4

 

A reading was taken for each battery sequentially in each trial. The SM8124A advertises an accuracy of 0.1 mΩ for this measurement range.

Nachtfeuerzeug
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That's interesting! So, how do the forgeries rank among similar capacity cells from Korea and Japan?

cabfrank
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Ashley, thanks for the introduction. Should your career as Lii CEO flounder, you certainly could have a second career as a model. I, for one, believe everything I read on the internet.

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@Broodmaster, this looks like an LG 3000mAh 10A cell.

So a good cell, but not a very high current cell, such as the 30Q.

So, I would request a refund and linking Active AI’s as the proof to Aliexpress and provide a refund.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Nachtfeuerzeug
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BlueSwordM wrote:
@Broodmaster, this looks like an LG 3000mAh 10A cell. So a good cell, but not a very high current cell, such as the 30Q. So, I would request a refund and linking Active AI's as the proof to Aliexpress and provide a refund.

Thank you for the comparison! Fortunately, most of my lights are under 8 amps.  Although, I have two D4s (Nichia and Cree). For whatever reason, I can't get more than 10A with real 30Qs, VTC5s, 25Rs, 20Rs, so these fakes don't deprive me of much with the current collection. Lol

It's great to have additional ammunition with test data above!

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manithree wrote:
Well, I’m done with liitokala. I ordered a 26650 on 1 Jan, and they’ve repeatedly told me that it’s almost here, in spite of the fact that the tracking number was bogus. I finally demanded a refund, and now they’re just shovelling all this crap at me in messages on aliexpress about how they’ve proved to me that I received the package (they haven’t) and we’ve talked on the phone (we haven’t).

This was the Official Store (217753). I’m never ordering anything from any Liitokala store on aliexpress again. I can overlook selling new batteries as 30Qs, even if they don’t look exactly like them, but have pretty similar capacity and max current. That might not even be the store’s fault. But when their customer service (Ashley Zhang) thinks I have no capacity to tell her lies from the truth, I’m done. With the whole brand. When my Lii-500s need replacing, I’m not buying Liitokala chargers.

Buyer beware.

You’re going to avoid the whole brand because you bought from a fake store? This seems a bit extreme…

The real Liito Kala store is 133859, not 217753.

Yohan110
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I received mine and they were clearly fake so I filed a dispute through Aliexpress using the positive end of the cell as evidence and describing the lack of serial number. Aliexpress stepped in and agreed with the seller because the seller apparently provided a “authorization file / purchase invoice from the brand owner” (Samsung). What should I do to provide more evidence? Should I remove the wrapper or would that make it worse?

Agro
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Is there some unevenness in the wrapping that could lead to a conclusion of them being not from factory?
Can you measure internal resistance and compare with other good cells? Even of a different model….

In general, unwrapping shouldn’t hurt the proof in any way other than destroying evidence (i.e. wrap itself).
But it may affect the resolution – you won’t be able to return the items to the seller.
Oh, any photo/video of unwrapped cell in a charger will be less trustworthy unless you find some clearly visible markings on the cells.

I speak about the return because that’s what the seller asked for in my case.
I agreed on condition that the seller pays for shipping. They system does not allow such resolution, so I only sent a message with such requirement.
My case is still open and will probably be settled next Monday.

WalkIntoTheLight
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BlueSwordM wrote:
@Broodmaster, this looks like an LG 3000mAh 10A cell.

So a good cell, but not a very high current cell, such as the 30Q.

So, I would request a refund and linking Active AI’s as the proof to Aliexpress and provide a refund.

It’s really too bad this store apparently had to sell fakes. If they just sold the LG cell, it would have been a good price for a decent cell, and nobody would complain or feel ripped-off.

If someone is going to sell fakes, the least they should do is fill a 18650 can with sand, and put a crap 200mAh 14500 Ultrafire in it. Otherwise, it seems like they’re just not putting in the effort.

Zulumoose
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Quote:
If someone is going to sell fakes, the least they should do is fill a 18650 can with sand, and put a crap 200mAh 14500 Ultrafire in it. Otherwise, it seems like they’re just not putting in the effort.

I’ve got one at home that is hilarious, it’s labelled Ultrofite, it is very lightweight with a ridiculous 4000+ rating, claims to be protected yet is no longer than an unprotected cell, and has the familiar red and silver wrapping. It came bundled with a noname brand zoomie. I must take a couple of pictures and post them for a laugh. I don’t know whether they spelt the name wrong deliberately, but why bother, it’s not like there would be any consequences.

Beam me up!

WalkIntoTheLight
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Zulumoose wrote:
I’ve got one at home that is hilarious, it’s labelled Ultrofite

Wow, faking an Ultrafire. They’re getting desperate!

justanotherguy
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So I wanted these cells for average light use, so they seem to fit the bill

BUT I did want cells to run my Sinner triple Nichia, my 2 late models Zebras (Mk 3 and 4) AND my new D4 that came at the same time.
Now I am wondering..I have 18 of these sitting here

I am going to email the seller…
Edit, they want a video of my testing procedure? wth
PP dispute

anyone in NE ILLinois into get togethers?

WalkIntoTheLight
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justanotherguy wrote:
BUT I did want cells to run my Sinner triple Nichia, my 2 late models Zebras (Mk 3 and 4) AND my new D4 that came at the same time.

The Zebras should be fine, if these truly are 10A cells. I have both the SC600w MkIV HI and the SC600w MkIV Plus. The HI will only draw about 4-5 amps, at most. The Plus will draw more, but at most 6 amps on a fresh cell and 8 amps on a low cell (more current is needed to boost it up to required voltage from a low cell).

I use Sanyo NCR18650-GA cells in both. They’re 10A cells, and they work fine. If I know I’ll be using the Plus on max for a lot of time, I’ll stick in a Sony VTC6 cell, but it’s not really necessary.

As for your other lights, they may require something higher than 10A, or at least benefit from it. Chances are that anything using a FET driver (like the D4) will simply run a bit dimmer, but not actually use more than 10A.

justanotherguy
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Thanks WiTL

If they offer some for of refund, I guess I can rotate out all the KP’s I have at home and work.. for ‘average lights’..

I am just paranoid about the Sinner or D4…

anyone in NE ILLinois into get togethers?

alifpb98
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Is this store any legit?
aliexpress.com/store/133859

fuzun
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I recommend “Varicore” instead of “Liitokala”. I bought 4 batteries from this store and they are original and properly wrapped (I bought pointed version). Shipping prices are also fair.

https://varicore.aliexpress.com/store/group/VariCore-30Q-battery/1672014...

And this is another store I have bought cells, but shipping cost is too much now:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1270703

CNCman
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I cannot afford to waste time or money on things that may or may not be what I’m wanting. So thanks for sharing your experience with a place I will not bother going to. You saved me a head ache. Beer

CNC & Manual Machinist. Think outside the box too long , cannot find your way back in.

Good Intentions are no guarantee for Good Results.

JakeDjanitor
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I have video of cells, and showed the internal resistance is too high, I showed the four vents, I showed a real 30q to compare.
In the video, there are 2 older used 30qs and 2 of the new ones from AliExpress, all on the opus charger. You can see the two new ones have higher resistance.

Seller says “ buyers said that the product is a problem, but the picture provided is false, cannot prove that I have a problem with the product, but also seriously deal with customer service,thank you.” Well if we all show them the cells we were sent, it proves he is selling counterfeit cells.
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AI has ruled in the seller's favor.  They stated I did not include adequate evidence of counterfeit such as including authentic cells in the pictures, etc.

Not really bothered as the cells are a fair price for what they actually are.  They drive my modded Q8's fine.  I wouldn't put them in anything that wants more than 10 amps though.  I opened a dispute because the vendor is blatantly falsely advertising.  Kind of shocked that so many valid and consistent disputes can be opened about a single product from a vendor and AI doesn't weigh the pattern of complains in their decision.

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