The cost being so high for ordering cells inside of Canada is because the shipping permits for shipping lithium ion are prohibitively expensive, being about 10 000$US, and because the regulations in Canada are even tighter than the ones in the US.
That is a recipe for a price and competition trap: since it costs so much to get a permit, and even if you can pay, that is hard to get, there are very few players selling lithium ion cells, and there being little competition, prices are sky high for lithium ion cells sold separately.
TLDR: I hate the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 for making shipping 18650s that are safer extremely hard and expensive to do so.
i disagree with you
the rating is not BS, it’s all true, all their figures is true and measured, it’s not BS like ultrafire 9800mah
“don’t represent real world performance ”, just to remind you that real world doesn’t only have flashlight, there are other low power devices that run on 18650 cell, even some flashlights have very low discharging current, not all flashlight need more than 1A
I agree mrheosuper, I think the few reputable brands are pretty honest with their claimed ratings. :+1: . Sony, Sanyo, Samsung, LG, & Panasonic… to name five.
And whoever makes the 26650 LittoKala 5000 mAh.
But, my ‘BLF Brother’; it is hard to believe that you only mention the 9800mah TrustFire 18650 when it has clearly been surpassed as ’the latest & greatest’!!
See picture below & get with the program my friend. .
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Clearly you need to do some research and look at tests of the cells.
Maybe then you can explain why some 3600mAh rated cell magically performs worse than a different brand 3400 or 3500mAh rated cell.
It would be ridiculous for me to say: “The SYNIOSBEAM’s output specs are complete BS. It’s expensive and huge, and it doesn’t even light up my back yard as well as the modded $20 BLF A6 I carry in my back pocket.” Right?
That’s pretty much what you are saying about battery ratings.
Manufacturers claims are based on measurements made under specified conditions. They almost certainly go to some lengths to make sure that their measurements are repeatable over short and long periods with regular, traceable calibration of their equipment. I don’t know what their sample size is, but I am sure it is more than a couple of cells.
HJKs tests are careful, he may not be controlling conditions are carefully as a manufacturer might, but I don’t think people should have any reasons to doubt his results. His results often differ from those in manufacturer datasheets not because their ratings are bogus, or that his testing is more or less careful than their; they differ because he tests to a different standard, and one more tailored to flashlight use. He also rarely/never, tests more than two cells, and the cells he tests are often of uncertain provenance.
Two of the major components of every flashlight, the emitter and the battery, are not designed and specified for the flashlight market. That makes it particularly important to understand the assumptions underlying the manufacturer specs. Independent tests to flashlight-oriented standards are very helpful in their own right, and for better understanding the mfg provided secs. Calling the manufacturer provided specs “BS” both cultivates ignorance, and makes the independent tests less useful.
Well you’re right, the cost per output is probably the lowest of any LED flashlight that exists less than 800 lumens.
Obviously it’s not meant for lighting up back yards
Ok then maybe I should say “the manufacturer specs are completely irrelevant to our flashlight applications and a 3600mAh cell will not always outperform a 3500mAh rated cell so independent high current tests (1-10A) need to be looked at for the actual performance.”
I think for most flashlights, a high-capacity cell is more important than a high-drain cell. Most lights won’t use more than about 5 amps from a cell. Something like the Sanyo GA (3500mAh 10amp) cell gives noticeably longer run-times than a Samsung 30Q (3000mAh 15amp).
Using my Zebralight SC600w MkIV Plus on my bike, set to a constant output of 700 lumens, I get almost 3 hours of run-time on a GA battery, compared to almost 2.5 hours on a 30Q or VTC6. And since I like to give myself 0.5 - 1.0 hours of extra time (to look for a good place to change batteries), that works out to a battery change about every 2 hours with a GA, or 1.5 hours with a 30Q.
The high-capacity 3500mAh cell means that on a 4 hour bike ride, I only need to change the battery once. With a slightly lower capacity 3000mAh cell, I’m probably going to change it twice (or risk cutting it too close). It makes a real difference.
High-capacity cells are only an advantage if you run them all the way down to the low voltage protection and your using relatively low output levels.
I think both of these apply to your particular scenario.
I, on the other hand, tend to recharge my batteries once they’re down to 3.6 or 3.7 volts. That’s when they’ve lost the majority of their power.
I also tend to prefer longer max runtimes over longer lower level runtimes. The boost driver in the Zebralight SC600w MkIV Plus is going to experience higher voltage sag on turbo using the Sanyo GA which will reduce it’s total turbo run time. The 30Q will keep the voltage higher allowing for more total run time on turbo.
My point being that the average person just assumes high capacity cells are better because the number is higher. It’s only better in very specific situations, so people should choose the battery that best fits their needs.
I was trying to avoid having to say all this WalkIntoTheLight. Thanks for making me have to type it all out.
Okay, I see what you’re saying. FET drivers tend to make extra capacity less useful, since you need to keep the battery mostly charged to get good performance (even with high-drain cells). That is why I prefer constant-current boost drivers (such as Zebralights) where the entire capacity of the battery can be used.
Though, most of my lights don’t have boost drivers, so I tend to use 30Q’s in them. The GA’s are saved for the Zebras.
Even at max output (2300 lumens), I don’t think the Zebra Plus uses anywhere close to the 10 amp rating of the GA battery. I think it’s somewhere between 6 amps (full charge) and 8 amps (near empty). Maybe even a bit less.
I can’t think of a higher output single-emitter light that uses a single 18650. So, using a 10 amp cell (such as the Sanyo GA) in a single-emitter flashlight seems pretty safe to do. But, yeah, if you’re running it close to 10 amps, a higher drain cell might perform a bit better.
Edit: Looking at the graphs, at 5 amps the 30Q has 10Wh of energy, and the GA has 11Wh. I think the GA wins, except perhaps when you use it at really high drains. Though, the GA sags about 0.1v more than the 30Q, so a FET driver would like the 30Q more (but with less run time).
That was a nice find, thanks The_Driver Further down there is a another chart and the Sony VCT6 was nearly as good as the 30Q in cold temps. LG HG2 was not far behind either. I use my lights far more in Winter too so I should stock up on more 30Qs.
Quote from Megalodon in that thread:
"being said, I personally think the 30Q more and more, according to different testing convinced me of the battery more and more and more .... No matter what kind of applications. It seems to me that the 30Q is the universal cell for everything. Amazing what Samsung has brought to the market!"
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less than 800 lumens.
Further down there is a another chart and the Sony VCT6 was nearly as good as the 30Q in cold temps. LG HG2 was not far behind either. I use my lights far more in Winter too so I should stock up on more 30Qs.