FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight

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idleprocess
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ToyKeeper wrote:
djozz wrote:
To underline how special it is for a chinese (or any) company to spontaniously make lights the BLF-way… the groundbreaking part is that a chinese company (Hank) watched and understood what happened on BLF and trusted that enough to develop a flashlight that combined everything and make it available for a budget price.

That’s exactly why I put so much time into the D4. It was clear that something new and special was happening, and I wanted to make sure Emisar got rewarded for that. It was a way of saying thanks — for listening and for taking a risk to do what people want.

As an outsider I’ve got to say that watching companies like Nitecore come out with ‘groundbreaking’ lights lately priced at $200 and $300, I have some appreciation for BLF’s efforts to get products to market for a fraction of the price without the horrific weaknesses of *fire lights on the ‘bay/‘zon.

PBWilson
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That’s a really good point.

Being able to buy, recommend and help develop new lights that are affordable, powerful, customizable and have the backing of many solid minds is rare and wonderful.

zapviii
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I will take one.

delusional
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My imagination says that what’s causing the delay is heat management. They gotta keep this thing from being a self-torching-torch, leaving scorch marks on everything it touches, and occasionally burning down someone’s house. No joke. It will be powerful enough to start fires under the right conditions. The overheat protection must be reliability tested to a high degree. Sick
If they can keep the heat genie in the bottle, the light will be as popular as the A6, if not more. …And that’s another reason for Lumintop to be extra cautious. If they get it right it’s a giant feather in their cap, and thousands of flashlight enthusiasts recommend Lumintop to others… If they screw it up, it’s a Buster Douglas hit to their reputation, difficult to recover from. It’s kinda make-or-break for them.
Furthermore… I’m pretty sure this is Lumintop’s first light with a triple-star. I’m sure they wanted to do this eventually, but we are pushing them into new territory.

Heat is the only thing stopping me from adding several units to my order. I want to see how safe it is, in the real world.
In the meantime, Lumintop is entirely correct to take as much time as they deem necessary to complete this project in a safe manner.

P.S. I wouldn’t be surprised if they cannot hit the price point mentioned in post #1.

Eraursls1984
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delusional wrote:
My imagination says that what’s causing the delay is heat management. They gotta keep this thing from being a self-torching-torch, leaving scorch marks on everything it touches, and occasionally burning down someone’s house. No joke. It will be powerful enough to start fires under the right conditions. The overheat protection must be reliability tested to a high degree. Sick
If they can keep the heat genie in the bottle, the light will be as popular as the A6, if not more. …And that’s another reason for Lumintop to be extra cautious. If they get it right it’s a giant feather in their cap, and thousands of flashlight enthusiasts recommend Lumintop to others… If they screw it up, it’s a Buster Douglas hit to their reputation, difficult to recover from. It’s kinda make-or-break for them.
Furthermore… I’m pretty sure this is Lumintop’s first light with a triple-star. I’m sure they wanted to do this eventually, but we are pushing them into new territory.

Heat is the only thing stopping me from adding several units to my order. I want to see how safe it is, in the real world.
In the meantime, Lumintop is entirely correct to take as much time as they deem necessary to complete this project in a safe manner.

P.S. I wouldn’t be surprised if they cannot hit the price point mentioned in post #1.


If that’s the case they could just crank the thermal regulation all the way down from the factory.
cabfrank
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I like your Buster Douglas reference. I think they will hit the target price, or get real close, because there is also the Emisar quad to compete with.

gottawearshades
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Still optimistic.

If this light happens, I would buy a second one.

PS: This thread, and the BLF lantern thread, make fascinating reading—smart people putting their heads together and working for no reward at the end but a flashlight they still have to buy. I admire the work y’all are putting in on this.

JasonWW
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gottawearshades wrote:
Still optimistic.

If this light happens, I would buy a second one.


What do you mean? Of course it will happen.

I would not listen to Delusional’s post. I think he’s wrong about the heat causing a delay. Lumintop is not even in charge of that area. The thermal management is programed by ToyKeeper and she has that under control. Plus it’s user adjustable. You can adjust it to heat up more or less depending on your needs.

I think he’s also wrong about it hurting Lumintops reputation if they get something about the light wrong. They will catch it and it will be corrected. Should be no big deal.

Prices are not fixed yet, but since we are this far along and they still think they can sell it for $30, I don’t see any reason why it would go up. It’s a small light so shipping costs should already be known. I can’t think of any other factors to make the price go up.

TheShadowGuy
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ToyKeeper wrote:
If it were up to me, I’d make the next one a single-emitter model with 18350 or 16340. Basically a clone of the Olight S-Mini, with better emitter choices and fancier firmware.

I would love an S-Mini with better emitter choices and firmware! Love

gottawearshades
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Point taken. I suck at optimism. It’s my Russian soul.

JasonWW wrote:
gottawearshades wrote:
Still optimistic.

If this light happens, I would buy a second one.


What do you mean? Of course it will happen.

I would not listen to Delusional’s post. I think he’s wrong about the heat causing a delay. Lumintop is not even in charge of that area. The thermal management is programed by ToyKeeper and she has that under control. Plus it’s user adjustable. You can adjust it to heat up more or less depending on your needs.

I think he’s also wrong about it hurting Lumintops reputation if they get something about the light wrong. They will catch it and it will be corrected. Should be no big deal.

Prices are not fixed yet, but since we are this far along and they still think they can sell it for $30, I don’t see any reason why it would go up. It’s a small light so shipping costs should already be known. I can’t think of any other factors to make the price go up.

nvanlaar
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I think the delay is getting the tube-in-tube durability figured out. Is there a reason they don’t just epoxy the tube inside the other tube so there is no movement or chance for wear between the two causing shorts? Do we need the inner tube to come out for any reason other than the cool factor?

“Facts don’t care about your feelings.”
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nvanlaar wrote:
I think the delay is getting the tube-in-tube durability figured out. Is there a reason they don’t just epoxy the tube inside the other tube so there is no movement or chance for wear between the two causing shorts? Do we need the inner tube to come out for any reason other than the cool factor?
The tube-in-tube design with just anodizing to insulate them never seemed wise.

A better way of doing it is how Liteflux did it in the LF2XT: Have 2 tubes – an inner aluminum tube nesting inside an insulating plastic tube. With 2 tubes, there is zero chance of wear causing a short. And the tubes do not need to be thick… very thin aluminum and plastic tubes should work fine.

ToyKeeper
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nvanlaar wrote:
I think the delay is getting the tube-in-tube durability figured out.

If I understand correctly, yes, that is why proto2 wasn’t the final version.

nvanlaar wrote:
Is there a reason they don’t just epoxy the tube inside the other tube so there is no movement or chance for wear between the two causing shorts? Do we need the inner tube to come out for any reason other than the cool factor?

It’s not a problem with the inner tube rubbing against the outer tube. The issue is the inner tube rubbing against the driver retaining ring. And to fix that, I think the gap between them has been widened.

The proto2 lights work fine after putting a strip of Kapton tape around the front end of the inner tube, but it shouldn’t need that. So a revised CAD model was sent, and is being produced.

FWIW, the prototypes so far are:

  • Proto0: Made by Fritz on his lathe.
  • Proto1: Made by Lumintop, had several issues to fix.
  • Proto2: Made by Lumintop, fixed all significant issues except one.
  • Proto3: Being made now.

Firmware is pretty stable, but I think Lumintop opted for the safer of two thermal options — the method which drops to the 8×7135 level at the slightest hint of overheating while the FET is active. Normal regulation is used below that level. Specifically:

  • Ramp level 1 to 65: No thermal regulation, not bright enough to need it.
  • Ramp level 66 to 130: Full thermal regulation.
  • Ramp level 131 to 150: Stays at requested level until overheating is detected, then smoothly drops to level 130. Will not attempt to regulate back up above level 130. This is basically a temperature-based step-down with a smooth edge.

With default settings, level 130 is the ramp ceiling. So every default level except turbo has thermal regulation, and turbo has a temperature-based step-down.

Additionally, there is some extremely paranoid thermal code in muggle mode:

  • Overheating shouldn’t be possible at muggle-mode levels, but if overheating is detected somehow, assume something has gone seriously wrong. Drop to the lowest muggle brightness.

I think the plan is to test proto3 whenever it arrives, confirm everything works, and then start production.

Firelight2
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Awesome! Thanks for the update ToyKeeper. Thumbs Up

d_t_a
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ToyKeeper wrote:

Firmware is pretty stable, but I think Lumintop opted for the safer of two thermal options — the method which drops to the 8×7135 level at the slightest hint of overheating while the FET is active. Normal regulation is used below that level. Specifically:
  • Ramp level 1 to 65: No thermal regulation, not bright enough to need it.
  • Ramp level 66 to 130: Full thermal regulation.
  • Ramp level 131 to 150: Stays at requested level until overheating is detected, then smoothly drops to level 130. Will not attempt to regulate back up above level 130. This is basically a temperature-based step-down with a smooth edge.

With default settings, level 130 is the ramp ceiling. So every default level except turbo has thermal regulation, and turbo has a temperature-based step-down.

Additionally, there is some extremely paranoid thermal code in muggle mode:

  • Overheating shouldn’t be possible at muggle-mode levels, but if overheating is detected somehow, assume something has gone seriously wrong. Drop to the lowest muggle brightness.

I think the plan is to test proto3 whenever it arrives, confirm everything works, and then start production.

Great to hear those, especially the detailed info about the thermal configuration.

But the ‘default’ thermal configuration above can be overridden by the user?

ToyKeeper
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d_t_a wrote:
But the ‘default’ thermal configuration above can be overridden by the user?

The user can calibrate the sensor and set a different temperature limit. The user can also change the ramp floor and ceiling levels. However, the level at which the thermal algorithm changes is hard-coded. Changing that requires reflashing the firmware.

pinkpanda3310
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Let’s hope proto 3 = production light Blushing

DoubleU
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ToyKeeper, is it possible to buy the driver and tail switch for this light by themselves? I’m interested in playing around with the electronics without waiting for the production lights to ship.

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DoubleU wrote:
ToyKeeper, is it possible to buy the driver and tail switch for this light by themselves? I’m interested in playing around with the electronics without waiting for the production lights to ship.

I’m just curious what you would do with them since they won’t fit any other light.
DoubleU
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JasonWW wrote:
DoubleU wrote:
ToyKeeper, is it possible to buy the driver and tail switch for this light by themselves? I’m interested in playing around with the electronics without waiting for the production lights to ship.
I’m just curious what you would do with them since they won’t fit any other light.

I will just hook it up at my bench. I’ve never played with a light with an electronic tail switch and a ramping driver, I’m curious to see how it works.

DavidEF
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DoubleU wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
DoubleU wrote:
ToyKeeper, is it possible to buy the driver and tail switch for this light by themselves? I’m interested in playing around with the electronics without waiting for the production lights to ship.
I’m just curious what you would do with them since they won’t fit any other light.

I will just hook it up at my bench. I’ve never played with a light with an electronic tail switch and a ramping driver, I’m curious to see how it works.


It will work like any other combination of driver with e-switch and ramping firmware. Having the e-switch in the tail is only special inside the flashlight. On the bench, it won’t be in the tail anymore, just a standard e-switch setup.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
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Kindle
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ToyKeeper wrote:
If it were up to me, I’d make the next one a single-emitter model with 18350 or 16340. Basically a clone of the Olight S-Mini, with better emitter choices and fancier firmware.

i <3 u

18350 please

chinooker
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unsubscribed

I have less interest in Lumintop than they have in their customers

maukka
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chinooker wrote:
unsubscribed

I have less interest in Lumintop than they have in their customers

I see you really dislike Lumintop, but couldn’t find the reason in your recent posts. What gives?

caplang
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Guess it’s related to how Lumintop handled GT issues. He wrote exactly the same on that thread.

JasonWW
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caplang wrote:
Guess it’s related to how Lumintop handled GT issues. He wrote exactly the same on that thread.

9 threads, actually.
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JasonWW wrote:
caplang wrote:
Guess it’s related to how Lumintop handled GT issues. He wrote exactly the same on that thread.
9 threads, actually.
Add 1 more & make it 10. Facepalm He even put one in the BLF Ultimate Lantern Project thread. Big Smile

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odriewniffe
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I’m in for one.

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gottobegeek wrote:
Interesting discussions but, I am going to unsubscribe from this thread.

When and if any light is produced and ready for purchase I guess I will get the email….assuming I am still alive, lol.

Bye-bye….. Wink

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

SamHaLeKe
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This is going to be an amazing BLF/TLF flashlight

#510 on the list ...

Looking forward to the Proto3 feedback!

 

Cheers

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