FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight

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cabfrank
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The Miller, very sadly long departed from the forum, did something similar. I think it was donation for future products. I donated a little, and to my knowledge, everything was distributed very fairly. I understand, especially with regard to TK, the hesitancy making a hobby a job, but maybe a few tokens of appreciation would be appreciated. Not many people I know of work for free, but the ones I am aware of all reside on BLF. A lot of us would throw a few dollars, or whatever we could, their way.

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kanton wrote:
Uhm.. as I am still pretty new.. Who is Neal and how does he contribute to all those projects he is involed in (like in the FW3A)? It seems to me that he is more than just an owner of an online shop, so what does he do? And how is this related to M4D M4X?

Also, I always wondered whether any of the people involved in the actual creation of the flashlight design ever see any money for their efforts. Like the people who design the lights, drivers, program UIs etc. This does not seem the case, if I read that right and it makes me kinda sad. If that’s right, I wish there was at least an option to pay 10-20% extra for the light and that extra money then reaches the private contributors from this forum. Because everyone besides them seem to get their fair share out of it(?)


A few things about Neal.
1. He’s a flashlight enthusiast who knows how they work internally.
2. Speaks both Chinese and English.
3. Lives within driving distance of Shenzhen China where most of the flashlight manufacturers are located.
4. He’s a translator between us and the engineers, etc… in the factories.
5. He has gone to the factories on many ocassasions to supervise aspects of a flashlight build, worked on the packaging and trained people to do quality control checks on the lights.
6. He knows several ways to reduce shipping costs for both the buyer and seller and a lot of times can avoid the buyer from having to pay additional taxes or import fees.
7. He helps to arrange and run group buys.
8. He helps customers track their packages.
9. He deals with warranty related issues. (Better than the company does, usually)
10. He wanted a website to promote his items and teamed up with M4D M4X since he already had a website.
11. Overall a nice guy and trustworthy.

Sometimes the team working on a big flashlight design will negotiate a tiny percentage, like 1%, with the manufacturer to be equally distributed among the team members or to maybe go into a collective pot that can be used for future projects, etc… The same goes for M4X and Neal. They do get a percentage of the sales that they bring in. Nothing to be ashamed about. I know that their good deals have certainly gotten me to buy lights I normally wouldn’t have. Lol. M4X has also contributed a lot to getting warranty issues settled as well as making lots of review videos. You can check them out on youtube here.

Guys like Lexel, Texas_Ace and others can sometimes be hired by companies to design a driver for a particular flashlight. They usually get paid a set fee, not a percentage, for their work.

I don’t think the software guys like Tom E and ToyKeeper make much or any money off their UI’s. I’m sure they could get paid if a company wanted them to customize a UI for a specific light. I assume, but have no real knowledge, that ToyKeeper made some money from Emisar when she made RampingIOS for their lights. It was built/customized to their specific needs.

Take everything I say about money with a grain of salt. I may know some details, but there’s a lot I don’t know. People like to keep money details private. You know how it is. I believe everything I said is public knowledge, though.

Ps, I hope TK gets a little monetary compensation from this project for all her efforts. It will never be enough to match all the actual work she is doing. Most folks put in all the hours on these projects just for the fun of it, to see it through to a final product. For the passion of it.

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I’d happily donate to TK, the UI she has made us is nothing short of amazing, yet somehow it keeps getting better

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cabfrank wrote:

The Miller, very sadly long departed from the forum, did something similar. I think it was donation for future products. I donated a little, and to my knowledge, everything was distributed very fairly.
You might find THIS interesting & informative cabfrank…..

cabfrank wrote:

I understand, especially with regard to TK, the hesitancy making a hobby a job, but maybe a few tokens of appreciation would be appreciated. Not many people I know of work for free, bit the ones I am aware of all reside on BLF. A lot of us would throw a few dollars, or whatever we could, their way.
Yeah, I can understand that too. Thumbs Up . But, as you basically said cabfrank; TK gives a lot to the BLF Community. And you are 100% correct… she does.

And as chadvone mentioned above, there are a few others that do also.

It would be nice if there was a way, for those of us that wanted to show our appreciation; to be able to do so on an individual basis.
Not some organized fund raiser, there is nothing wrong with that of course; but just on a simple individual basis. A way of letting them know in a tangible way we appreciate & recognize what they do on an individual level.

No strings attached, no expectations, no list of contributors…. just an honest “Thank you” in a tangible way on an individual basis.

To my way of thinking this would be an individual PayPal contribution sent directly to the individual(s) of your choice.

Honestly… it could not get much simplier than that. All that is needed is a PayPal address & hopefully a ‘stickied page’ to keep a list of those addresses on.

I hope this can happen. Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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cabfrank
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Not sure on the money, teacher. I thought there was a raffle, with prizes and money distributed. I could be off base though, seems long ago now.

teacher
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cabfrank wrote:
Not sure on the money, teacher. I thought there was a raffle, with prizes and money distributed. I could be off base though, seems long ago now.
Yeah, there was supposed to be…. it never happened. Or, if it did; there was never any mention or record of it. Not good anyway you slice it…. Sad

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

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cabfrank
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I could be confusing it with a giveaway of profits from a affiliate link from the Q8 project. I really can’t remember.

teacher
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Probably so, the affilate thing you mentioned was done.

As far as the other, it is all in black & white right HERE in the OP of that thread; last updated 1 October 2017.

Bottom line, $486.37; whereabouts unknown…. at this point anyway.

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

Umpi2000
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I think there should be a few extra GB ground rules put in place, like personally insulting organizers or the “team” should result in ejection from the GB. Or at least relegation to last on the list?

I also think when people say stuff on online forums about people they should stop before sending and think if they’d have the guts to say exactly what they typed directly to the person they’re insulting’s face in public, it might prevent antagonist negative and ill thought out remarks being made in future?

I definitely understand people being impatient/excited/disappointed, i’m certainly no saint, but there needs to be a line drawn in the sand, some of the remarks I’ve read in this thread are downright mean and personal

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Umpi2000 wrote:
I think there should be a few extra GB ground rules put in place, like personally insulting organizers or the “team” should result in ejection from the GB. Or at least relegation to last on the list?

I also think when people say stuff on online forums about people they should stop before sending and think if they’d have the guts to say exactly what they typed directly to the person they’re insulting’s face in public, it might prevent antagonist negative and ill thought out remarks being made in future?

I definitely understand people being impatient/excited/disappointed, i’m certainly no saint, but there needs to be a line drawn in the sand, some of the remarks I’ve read in this thread are downright mean and personal

Have there really been insults ? only thing i have read that people including me have wondering how come no info has come up in a long time if the light will even be made, but it seems afterall it will even if it takes time, i hope u dont take that as insults.

...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

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mortuus wrote:

(snip)
Have there really been insults ? only thing i have read that people including me have wondering how come no info has come up in a long time if the light will even be made, but it seems afterall it will even if it takes time, i hope u dont take that as insults.
Start reading 27 or so posts back……

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

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mortuus wrote:
Umpi2000 wrote:
I think there should be a few extra GB ground rules put in place, like personally insulting organizers or the “team” should result in ejection from the GB.

Have there really been insults ?

Yes. It’s fairly common. A lot of the worst have been deleted though.

I’ve seen quite a few going around over time, across many threads, and even across forums. Some were pretty severe. Some were aimed at me. Many were part of heated arguments. A few even make fun anecdotes at parties.

Mostly though, they’re utterly forgettable. Trying to remember them is like trying to remember dogs barking. I mean, it’s a common occurrence when one goes for a walk, but how often is it really memorable? With that sort of thing, do we remember even five minutes later? Often times it doesn’t even register; there’s just some noise for a few moments and then it’s gone and I was too lost in thought to even notice.

So… yes. But I don’t think we need any special rules about it. If someone is in a position of power, even a minor thing like being a group organizer, it seems like a bad idea to shield them from criticism. The people who need protection are the ones who don’t have power, not the other way around.

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DB Custom wrote:
I shoulda took pics of that eclipse all the way through and back to normal but I was FREEZING!

You’ll get your chance again on 21 January. And it will be total this time.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/discover/explore/lunar-eclipse

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Tom Tom, will it be visible in it’s totality in Texas? My luck it would be but raining, and 33º…

And Tom Tom is correct in his statements about Neal, I have said it before and because Tom Tom stepped out on the limb here I’ll say it again, if Neal is involved it is a SNAFU scenario. I’ve been involved in too many of the group buys that had all sorts of issues due to his relation to the project. Including sending him a couple of quads I built on the X5 platform (the first mysteriously went missing in China, totally my loss) so they could make the S43 or whatever. In that one, despite the time and expense I personally went to, I was left out of the testing loop on their new light. Some folks griped about that and a light arrived with zip explanation after these complaints. I gave it away, had already made my own Ti/Cu quad that I still carry every day. So yes, I too feel like if Neal is involved I do not want to be. It is what it is. (after some run around, surprise, I was reimbursed for the DHL on the second light, which cost $67 to ship to China with a 30% discount as a first time DHL user… yes it was going to be a flat $100 to ship the small quad X5 to Neal!)

And to extrapolate, when the D1S was coming out and Neal had em first …I ordered from him so I could review it, among the first, I thought, that would receive one. He forgot to ship it. Took among the longest to receive of any light I’ve ordered. Others on that deal got wrong lights, wrong emitters, all sorts of mix ups. Like the GT shipments. And on and on and on…

…like the serial numbered X6/X5 sets that immediately went on sale without the serial number, nullifying the collector value of the set. They even sold the “special” boxes! And me and ToyKeeper were the spokespersons on those sets, convincing a great many to buy them when the other team members were absent without leave. Left a seriously bad taste, that one did. And of course, the Cometa SNAFU. I sent Neal a list of the exact components on specific drivers, drivers I’d built by the hundreds with full success, he agreed to use these for accuracy, then of course the components were not used. And glitches occurred. And then there were tubes that were too short. Wrong threads. Mismatched ano… all of this certainly can’t be hung on Neal’s shoulders and I’m sure he played he** trying to get things right, but nonetheless he was involved and things went awry. After the X6 group buy I was sent 6 extension tubes and hosts to build lights for the team members of the X6, requiring an MT-G2 emitter. Neal sent the Astrolux X6 hosts and the extension tubes… the tubes were too short by 4 mm and the MT-G2’s turned out to be 9V and wouldn’t work on 2 cells… And on and on and on… The team members never got those special “Thank you” lights as the battery tubes never did get corrected…

It hasn’t been one or two simple things, it’s a long ongoing list of issue…. pretty much like how long this particular “group buy” has been lasting and the shipping errors (omissions) to the obvious right people…

I know all this is beating a dead horse, but does that mean all the folks tied into this are supposed to be kept blind as to how Neal’s deals have worked in the past? Like, do y’all really, even for a second, think I can shut up? I’ve tried, really I have, but Tom Tom is right on this, as well as on some other things. (I know, I know, he’s rarely right, but hey, it can happen! Silly )

Here’s to hoping Neal’s wife has gotten him straightened out and all that bunk up above is just that, ancient memories. Good Luck!

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Wow Tom Tom! A Supermoon, in full eclipse, with a 5 hour and 11 minute spread from start to finish and a total eclipse of an hour and 2 minutes! This will take some planning!

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mortuus wrote:
Umpi2000 wrote:
I think there should be a few extra GB ground rules put in place, like personally insulting organizers or the “team” should result in ejection from the GB. Or at least relegation to last on the list?

I also think when people say stuff on online forums about people they should stop before sending and think if they’d have the guts to say exactly what they typed directly to the person they’re insulting’s face in public, it might prevent antagonist negative and ill thought out remarks being made in future?

I definitely understand people being impatient/excited/disappointed, i’m certainly no saint, but there needs to be a line drawn in the sand, some of the remarks I’ve read in this thread are downright mean and personal

Have there really been insults ? only thing i have read that people including me have wondering how come no info has come up in a long time if the light will even be made, but it seems afterall it will even if it takes time, i hope u dont take that as insults.

Nope you’re not making any insults to me but if you read some of the messages directed at Neal and also Martin, neither I know personally, there are some rather personal comments and allegations that were directed their way. Quite frankly I find it irritating reading through some of these negative insulting posts offering advise that clearly is not required or is only really 20/20, add no value and only serve to make bad feelings for the team working on the project.

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Umpi2000 wrote:
mortuus wrote:

Have there really been insults ? only thing i have read that people including me have wondering how come no info has come up in a long time if the light will even be made, but it seems afterall it will even if it takes time, i hope u dont take that as insults.

Nope you’re not making any insults to me but if you read some of the messages directed at Neal and also Martin, neither I know personally, there are some rather personal comments and allegations that were directed their way. Quite frankly I find it irritating reading through some of these negative insulting posts offering advise that clearly is not required or is only really 20/20, add no value and only serve to make bad feelings for the team working on the project.

Maybe this is just a difference in culture, but if the topic at hand brings up some negativity towards an individual or a group that could impact me, I would rather hear it out, and then draw my own conclusions. I don’t hear about the troubles behind the scenes of these group buys. But when projects take extremely long, items don’t get shipped, or people lose money, I would appreciate a “tread with caution.”

I do believe the opinions should be made VERY objectively with little to no speculation. But unnecessarily censoring people who have inside knowledge and/or kicking them off of a topic sounds like a slippery slope to me.

Regardless, I’m thankful for the members that are keeping this project moving forward! Thumbs Up

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DB Custom wrote:
I have said it before and because Tom Tom stepped out on the limb here I’ll say it again, if Neal is involved it is a SNAFU scenario.

Just because you’ve had problems - and Neal was involved, that doesn’t automatically mean Neal was the cause of the problems. It is convenient and natural to place blame on a common denominator. I can’t fault you on that. Is it accurate, though? Probably not.

For every person who doesn’t like Neal, there are 100 who do. If you want to bow out simply because he is involved, that is you prerogative. I think it’s a bit silly, but to each his own. I’m sure you will be able to buy a FW3A after the group buy from Banggood or Lumintop or whoever is selling it. So no worries. It’s all good. Big SmileBeer

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I learnt something today

noun
noun: snafu; plural noun: snafus

1. a confused or chaotic state; a mess. “an enormous amount of my time was devoted to untangling snafus”

adjective
adjective: snafu

1. in utter confusion or chaos. “our refrigeration plant is snafu”

verb
verb: snafu; 3rd person present: snafus; past tense: snafued; past participle: snafued; gerund or present participle: snafuing

1. throw (a situation) into chaos. “you ignored his orders and snafued everything”
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lionheart_2281 wrote:
I learnt something today

noun
noun: snafu; plural noun: snafus

1. a confused or chaotic state; a mess. “an enormous amount of my time was devoted to untangling snafus”

adjective
adjective: snafu

1. in utter confusion or chaos. “our refrigeration plant is snafu”

verb
verb: snafu; 3rd person present: snafus; past tense: snafued; past participle: snafued; gerund or present participle: snafuing

1. throw (a situation) into chaos. “you ignored his orders and snafued everything”

If you’d like to continue your education, its actually an acronym. I’ll leave it as a link because its not exactly family-friendly in its fully explained state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNAFU

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I never said I didn’t like him Jason, I’ve had multiple Personal dealings with him that he skewed. Direct dealings, no way to blame it on anyone but Neal. Believe how you wish.

I won’t be buying one period. My initial interest was in support of Fritz, that light no longer exists. If I still want it, I’ll make it myself… I bowed out a long time ago when the original light died…

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I live near a military installation. Seems like I’ve heard SNAFU all my life… Situation Normal, All F’d Up. ( we can call that fracked if you wish, close enough for government work)

Edit: sorry, I was thinking in terms of oil extraction and wasn’t aware of modern translation. To me it means broken, fractured, messed up virtually beyond repair. But yes, it’s a vulgar term coined by frustrated disgruntled soldiers.

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Yourrid wrote:
Umpi2000 wrote:
mortuus wrote:

Have there really been insults ? only thing i have read that people including me have wondering how come no info has come up in a long time if the light will even be made, but it seems afterall it will even if it takes time, i hope u dont take that as insults.

Nope you’re not making any insults to me but if you read some of the messages directed at Neal and also Martin, neither I know personally, there are some rather personal comments and allegations that were directed their way. Quite frankly I find it irritating reading through some of these negative insulting posts offering advise that clearly is not required or is only really 20/20, add no value and only serve to make bad feelings for the team working on the project.

Maybe this is just a difference in culture, but if the topic at hand brings up some negativity towards an individual or a group that could impact me, I would rather hear it out, and then draw my own conclusions. I don’t hear about the troubles behind the scenes of these group buys. But when projects take extremely long, items don’t get shipped, or people lose money, I would appreciate a “tread with caution.”

I do believe the opinions should be made VERY objectively with little to no speculation. But unnecessarily censoring people who have inside knowledge and/or kicking them off of a topic sounds like a slippery slope to me.

Regardless, I’m thankful for the members that are keeping this project moving forward! Thumbs Up

A difference in culture? I’m quite sure my original post does not call for censorship, and yes you are definitely entitled to a “tread with caution” warning, but it need not specifically insult certain individuals based mostly on opinion. I’m not suggesting anything contrary to western culture, basically treat your Neighbour as you would want to be treated yourself, nothing more.

The way most logical arguments are rebuffed these days seems to be to push their logic all the way to the most extreme version possible to make the original argument seem illogical

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DB Custom wrote:
I live near a military installation. Seems like I’ve heard SNAFU all my life… Situation Normal, All F’d Up. ( we can call that fracked if you wish, close enough for government work)

Edit: sorry, I was thinking in terms of oil extraction and wasn’t aware of modern translation. To me it means broken, fractured, messed up virtually beyond repair. But yes, it’s a vulgar term coined by frustrated disgruntled soldiers.

The first time I heard it was in the movie “Saving Private Ryan”. They went to a lot of trouble making that movie more historically accurate than any WWII movie had ever been before, so I am quite confident the term dates back at least as far as the 40’s.

Beam me up!

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Zulumoose wrote:
DB Custom wrote:
I live near a military installation. Seems like I’ve heard SNAFU all my life… Situation Normal, All F’d Up. ( we can call that fracked if you wish, close enough for government work)

Edit: sorry, I was thinking in terms of oil extraction and wasn’t aware of modern translation. To me it means broken, fractured, messed up virtually beyond repair. But yes, it’s a vulgar term coined by frustrated disgruntled soldiers.

The first time I heard it was in the movie “Saving Private Ryan”. They went to a lot of trouble making that movie more historically accurate than any WWII movie had ever been before, so I am quite confident the term dates back at least as far as the 40’s.


FUBAR

KB1428 “Live Life WOT”

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Quote:
FUBAR

Dammit, you’re right, it’s my memory that is SNAFU (and FUBAR)

Both seem to date back to WWII though As per this nice summary

Beam me up!

sandro
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In for two please

leo l.
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Please remove me from the list. The list in the TLF is now updated.
Thank you very much for your efforts and apologies for the chaos caused.
1717: leo l.
1718: leo l.
1719: leo l.
1720: leo l.

Regards
Leo

Res1cue
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can you put me down for one please? Thanks for doing this

coherent-rambling
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I don’t need this, but what the heck. It’s an impressive collaboration, and the tail e-switch is neat. Put me down for one with LH351’s.

I missed the discussion surrounding emitters – was SST-20 ever considered? I’ve been pretty happy with them in smaller TIR lights. I don’t mean to say that an established decision should be reconsidered or anything, I’m just curious. It’s a swap I might consider down the road, if they weren’t specifically rejected for some reason.

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