FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight

7880 posts / 0 new
Last post
Poguche
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 36 min ago
Joined: 11/18/2018 - 10:23
Posts: 12
Location: Spain

This might be the best meme I have ever seen… Big Smile
So true…

teacher
teacher's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 10 hours ago
Joined: 02/23/2016 - 19:04
Posts: 7971
Location: NE & SW Alabama

teacher wrote:
teacher wrote:
cabfrank wrote:
Do let us know what you think when you get it, teacher. I think it is quite tempting, even at around fifteen bucks.
I certainly will my friend. Thumbs Up
Also, I just checked; the $10.99 Coupon Code for the Convoy S2+ SST20 4000K 95CRI is still active. Get the details HEREWink
I ordered 18 February & I am still waiting. My order still says “Processing”. But I figure what the heck, it’s only $10.99 & a good deal. It’ll come sooner or later. Wink
I’m thinking about ordering another to use as a host.
Concerning the Convoy S2+ SST20 4000K 95CRI we discussed several posts ago.
I got notification that it “Shipped” today. Hopefully it really did….. Wink .. Big Smile

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

         Rudeness Level _ mΩ _ {width:70%} _ LightWiki _ LED Tint Chart  

      Xlamp size chart _ BatteryU _ Flashaholic? Need Professional Help???            TheOriginal _ TAB _ LightSearch _ BatterySearch _ 14500's _ DiCal 

 

                                             

cabfrank
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 30 min ago
Joined: 11/19/2010 - 17:25
Posts: 2571
Location: healdsburg, california usa earth

Good news.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 40 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 8782
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
wheelgunwordslinger wrote:
love the idea of lights that are actually produced based on what the community wants. If only we could get other industries to work with us like this. Seems like most industries insist on pushing features we don’t want, and not listening to what we actually do want.

In the free software world, it’s pretty normal for things to be created based on what the community wants. Frequently, the community just makes its own stuff, scratching its own itches. BLF has a similar “make what you want” culture, but it involves physical goods instead of just data, and physical goods can’t yet be copied over the internet. So several of us have been trying to get manufacturers to participate in this process, in order to make cool things available to anyone who wants them.

bleomycin
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 21 hours ago
Joined: 03/08/2019 - 21:05
Posts: 1

Please put me down for 1 as well.

Ristafas
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 35 sec ago
Joined: 03/09/2019 - 13:29
Posts: 1

I’d like 2 please.

hank
hank's picture
Offline
Last seen: 17 hours 31 min ago
Joined: 09/04/2011 - 21:52
Posts: 7902
Location: Berkeley, California
Quote:
several of us have been trying to get manufacturers to participate in this process, in order to make cool things available to anyone who wants them.

Someone at the New Yorker or Vanity Fair ought to write about how this is working.
It’s a new age ….

Ilumenati
Ilumenati's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 29 min ago
Joined: 01/07/2019 - 05:22
Posts: 29
Location: Pac NW

Reminds me somewhat of the cooperative Alt culture described in Cory Doctorow’s “Walkaway”

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 40 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 8782
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3
Ilumenati wrote:
Reminds me somewhat of the cooperative Alt culture described in Cory Doctorow’s “Walkaway”

Cory Doctorow based some of his main writing themes on free software culture. It’s a major plot element in his “Little Brother” book, and is applied to a hardware context in “Makers”, and is applied to artistic works in “Pirate Cinema”. He’s pretty into this stuff. Smile

He writes about it as sci-fi, usually, but… it’s not fiction. It has been an ongoing and growing movement since the mid-1900s, and is now the code foundation for the majority of the internet.

JSNTNG123
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 4 days ago
Joined: 03/09/2019 - 22:09
Posts: 2
Location: SoCal

I’m brand new to this forum too. But put me in for one please!
Love the design and the idea behind it. Thanks!

sochi111
sochi111's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 10 min ago
Joined: 02/21/2017 - 14:59
Posts: 158

Please add me to the list

Tubercle
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 20 hours ago
Joined: 03/10/2019 - 14:28
Posts: 7
Location: USA

Please include me, I’d like 1.

idleprocess
idleprocess's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 40 min ago
Joined: 08/17/2018 - 00:22
Posts: 20
Location: dfw.tx.us

Realize I’m a few weeks behind here, but this caught my eye:

BlueSwordM wrote:
See, the thing is with BLF group buys, the advantage is that most of the R&D is done here, and most the parts used are “commonly available” compared to say keyboards.
[…]
3. The design of the light and specifications have been done by BLF members.

Having done mechanical design in a past career where we outsourced most production and and concept-design-production workflows with relatively simple CNC (laser cutters) as a hobbyist I feel like point 3 is a bit simplified.

There’s appreciable effort that goes into the design itself, for sure. Someone that produces their own finished product will have some experience with what’s feasible to produce and bake that into the design document.

But having a good design – a production-ready design – isn’t the same thing as having production plans.

Whenever I design a tabbed box for laser cutting, translating the design file into a work file takes appreciable time – layout for material efficiency and optimizing geometry for cutting efficiency being the key tasks.

When dealing with machining metal parts the design to work document process may well be more involved. Tool choices, speed/feed considerations far more involved than laser cutter power/feed, material selection, jigs/workholding, production sequencing (since intermediate parts may be needed between workstations/schedules), QC processes, production scheduling concerns, negotiating slight dimensional changes that could make/break the concept for your capabilities and/or the client’s needs, etc.

BlueSwordM wrote:

Also, the parts/design can be used on other lights, like with the BLF Q8 spawning the Sofirn Q8, Sofirn SP36, Sofirn C8F 18650/21700, Lumintop GT/GT Mini/GT Micro.

Suspect that the prospect for future sales of a design that’s expected to be successful beyond the initial discounted batches – and presumably without encumbrances – is the true carrot.
Blu3iris
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
Joined: 03/11/2019 - 01:49
Posts: 1
Location: USA

I’ll take one. Thanks.

charwinger21
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 02/25/2019 - 20:21
Posts: 8

With the discussion of potentially switching to the 95 CRI SST-20, I just want to double down on the LH351D.

The SST-20 is slightly higher CRI, but at 700 lm the LH351D is around 45% more efficient at the same colour temperature from what I’m seeing, and at 300 lm the LH351D is around 25% more efficient at the same colour temperature.

That’s a big difference in battery drain and heat for the same output.

 

edit: this is based on maukka’s tests of the SST-20 and the LH351C (my understanding is that the LH351D is slightly more efficient than the LH351D at 1000 lm, although you lose a bit of efficiency by going from 5000k to 4000k)

 

edit 2: actually, that’s got me thinking, after reading through the pre-production review fully, do we possibly want to look at the LH351C? If we’re expecting the light to be 900 lumens or lower (300 lumens per emitter) most of the time, then I think we’ll be sitting right in the LH351C’s target current. Yeah, we’d lose a bit of maximum lumens in turbo (all 20 seconds of it), but the better efficiency in regular use would help the light work better in regular use, and we might be able to source them more quickly.

djozz
djozz's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 15 sec ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 14568
Location: Amsterdam

^ with the SST-20 you loose efficiency/output but you gain a brighter hotspot (and a somewhat higher CRI). And a bit of the 25% efficiency loss is gained back because the smaller die SST-20 gives less optical losses in the TIR.

Nichia
Nichia's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 46 min ago
Joined: 03/31/2017 - 17:01
Posts: 141

I want one LH351D 4000K 90CRI

Nichia!

djozz
djozz's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 15 sec ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 14568
Location: Amsterdam

@idleprocess,
There is indeed a lot of design/processing work done by the manufacturer and this must not be overlooked. But when working with Thorfire on the Q8 I noticed that that part is what they (as a low-end manufacturer) were already very good at. We were not able to help them with that (from the other side of the world Smile ), but that part was provided for very well. It is the what you call production plans that were lacking, they were not very creative and to my surprise they had only little idea how the actual workings are of a flashlight. By copying others Thorfire had some pretty nice models back then but not the expertise to innovate.

charwinger21
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 02/25/2019 - 20:21
Posts: 8
djozz wrote:
^ with the SST-20 you loose efficiency/output but you gain a brighter hotspot (and a somewhat higher CRI). And a bit of the 25% efficiency loss is gained back because the smaller die SST-20 gives less optical losses in the TIR.

I’m curious how much wider the beam on the LH351C or the LH351D is than on the SST-20.

The datasheets only claim that it is 128 degrees instead of 120 degrees (although, obviously the hotspots can vary).

If it is 8 degrees wider (with relatively similar distribution within those areas), then even after accounting for the LH351C covering a larger area with its light; in the SST-20’s 120 degree beam angle, the LH351C would still produce around 17% more light with the same power (while also filling an additional 8 degrees of range, albeit without getting into the effect of the TIR).

 

Unless the SST-20 has a much stronger hotspot, the LH351C or the LH351D may actually be brighter in the SST-20’s light circle while also having more spill at the same power usage (albeit, not at 95 CRI).

Agro
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 46 min ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 3638
Location: Ślōnsk
charwinger21 wrote:
djozz wrote:
^ with the SST-20 you loose efficiency/output but you gain a brighter hotspot (and a somewhat higher CRI). And a bit of the 25% efficiency loss is gained back because the smaller die SST-20 gives less optical losses in the TIR.

I’m curious how much wider the beam on the LH351C or the LH351D is than on the SST-20.

The datasheets only claim that it is 128 degrees instead of 120 degrees (although, obviously the hotspots can vary).

If it is 8 degrees wider (with relatively similar distribution within those areas), then even after accounting for the LH351C covering a larger area with its light; in the SST-20’s 120 degree beam angle, the LH351C would still produce around 17% more light with the same power (while also filling an additional 8 degrees of range, albeit without getting into the effect of the TIR).

 

Unless the SST-20 has a much stronger hotspot, the LH351C or the LH351D may actually be brighter in the SST-20’s light circle while also having more spill at the same power usage (albeit, not at 95 CRI).


Bare beam angle matters w/out a collimator. With – die size does. And LH351D has it over twice as large as SST-20.
charwinger21
Offline
Last seen: 6 days 13 hours ago
Joined: 02/25/2019 - 20:21
Posts: 8
Agro wrote:
Bare beam angle matters w/out a collimator. With – die size does. And LH351D has it over twice as large as SST-20.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I can’t find exact numbers, but if it was a doubling in central beam width from the SST-20 to the LH351D (without getting into the effect of the lens), that would triple the hotspot brightness (within the hotspot area of the SST-20), but the rest of the light would be much brighter (on average outside the range of the SST-20’s hotspot) on the LH351D.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 40 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 8782
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

Comparing SST-20 to LH351D, the SST-20 is quite a lot more throwy, and the LH351D is very very floody. I don’t have the exact numbers, but on Carclo’s spec sheet, there are some similar emitters to compare…

  • XP-G2: 5.5 cd/lm
  • LH351B: 3.0 cd/lm

SST-20 is similar in size to XP-G2, so ~5.5 cd/lm might be about right. However, LH351D is two steps larger than LH351B. So at a very rough guess, we’re talking ~5.5 cd/lm vs about ~2.0 cd/lm. The SST-20 likely gets more than twice as much beam intensity per lumen. Even at half the brightness, it should still throw farther… and with less light in the near field causing pupil contraction and haze, objects in the distance should be easier to see.

Looking at it from a different data source, LH351D is about as floody as XP-L HD. Probably a little bit more floody, even. And from Intl-Outdoor’s D4S specs, I see that SST-20 is about 2.6 times as throwy as XP-L HD. So I’m guessing we can expect a similar ratio in the FW3A.

So… At a very rough guess, here’s what to expect:

  • SST-20 65CRI: 15.5 kcd, 2600 lm
  • XP-L HI 75CRI: 12.5 kcd, 2800 lm
  • SST-20 95CRI: 11.5 kcd, 2000 lm
  • LH351D 70CRI: 7.5 kcd, 3300 lm
  • LH351D 90CRI: 6.5 kcd, 2800 lm

Ish.

Plus or minus a pretty wide error margin.

ToyKeeper
ToyKeeper's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 40 min ago
Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
Posts: 8782
Location: (469219) 2016 HO3

Aside from the extra cost, and aside from people wanting high CRI, I’d kinda prefer to do a spread of XP-L HI tints instead. ~3300K, ~4100K, ~4900K, ~5700K, all in “A” or “D” tints so they’d be on the pink side of BBL. Or perhaps they can be convinced to do a Cree spread and a high-CRI emitter.

I’m not really sure what’s going on lately though. The last message I got was a bit over a week ago, and all it said was “it is fit”. I think that was about the driver shelf being cut wide enough, but I’m not sure and my request for clarification hasn’t been answered. So I guess we just wait for news as usual.

ikkentobi
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 9 hours ago
Joined: 11/18/2016 - 13:02
Posts: 41
Location: Bavaria

Please add me to the list. Thought I was there already, but can’t find it any more.

Ni-Cd
Offline
Last seen: 22 hours 53 min ago
Joined: 03/11/2019 - 07:59
Posts: 1
Location: Italy

Add me to the list please, I’m interested in buying this flashlight!

Tech25
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 31 min ago
Joined: 07/29/2018 - 22:37
Posts: 13
Location: NY
ToyKeeper wrote:
Aside from the extra cost, and aside from people wanting high CRI, I’d kinda prefer to do a spread of XP-L HI tints instead. ~3300K, ~4100K, ~4900K, ~5700K, all in “A” or “D” tints so they’d be on the pink side of BBL. Or perhaps they can be convinced to do a Cree spread and a high-CRI emitter.

Thats a good idea. I have a 4000k xpl-hi and even though it’s not a hcri, it’s pretty good. I would still want a warmer hcri but would jump on this as well.

Tally-ho
Tally-ho's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 34 min ago
Joined: 07/23/2011 - 04:15
Posts: 784
Location: France

Nichia wrote:

I want one LH351D 4000K 90CRI


We knew your username was usurped, now you are also a renegade.

Tixx
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 2 hours ago
Joined: 08/27/2015 - 22:34
Posts: 189
Location: United States
Tech25 wrote:
ToyKeeper wrote:
Aside from the extra cost, and aside from people wanting high CRI, I’d kinda prefer to do a spread of XP-L HI tints instead. ~3300K, ~4100K, ~4900K, ~5700K, all in “A” or “D” tints so they’d be on the pink side of BBL. Or perhaps they can be convinced to do a Cree spread and a high-CRI emitter.

Thats a good idea. I have a 4000k xpl-hi and even though it’s not a hcri, it’s pretty good. I would still want a warmer hcri but would jump on this as well.

Definitely! I default to XP-L Hi 4000k V2 5D in a bunch of triples and quads. The ever so slight pink looks so much better than any of the Nichia 219c that I have had and many others.

FW3A Team
FW3A Team's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Joined: 02/15/2018 - 03:28
Posts: 25
Location: "it is fit"

List updated in post #4. 1447 people, 2080 lights… plus ~400 on TLF.


- TK

Tumbleweed48
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 50 min ago
Joined: 11/12/2012 - 23:21
Posts: 707
Location: Canada

The people at the source of this effort should feel complimented.

Is that a record number for a BLF/TLF initiative?

Pages