FW3A, a TLF/BLF EDC flashlight - SST-20 available, coupon codes public

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Klayking
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Yeah, this is a bad move on Lumintop’s part. They’ve gone and changed something without consulting the BLF/TLF team and made it worse. They probably shouldn’t be doing things like that after working so closely with everyone to manufacture this device as close to enthusiast spec as possible. They haven’t even rolled all of the versions out yet and we’re already seeing changes like this.

oweban
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Wonder if there’ll be a “cancel preorder” option before the 24th (shipping). I really want the FA3, but I really don’t want different optics picked for arbitrary reasons.

Klayking
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I wouldn’t go that far myself, but I do totally understand if you’re upset about getting the ol’ switcharoo. Personally I’ll be happy as long as I can still get some glass and a Carclo for it included in the package.

acab
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I am sure they might be able to save a dollar or more with the new part and also reduce complexity. From an OEM point of view, this is a smart move.

Now, back to us consumers – can we leave a comment when ordering and get the “old” option back, somehow? Because this lens size seems difficult to purchase…

trakcon
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acab wrote:
I am sure they might be able to save a dollar or more with the new part and also reduce complexity. From an OEM point of view, this is a smart move.

Now, back to us consumers – can we leave a comment when ordering and get the “old” option back, somehow? Because this lens size seems difficult to purchase…

Agreed. I’d even prefer to pay a couple dollars more to retain the original parts.

nobody
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oweban wrote:
Wonder if there'll be a "cancel preorder" option before the 24th (shipping). I really want the FA3, but I really _don't_ want different optics picked for arbitrary reasons.

 

Too late to cancel mine. I received my shipping notice yesterday. Hope it comes with what I was expecting. 

Lux-Perpetua
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Actually, I was gonna buy another FW3A but now... Facepalm Lumintop has obviously forgotten that this flashlight concept consists of thouroughly selected (standard) parts to fulfill most of TLF/BLF enthusiasts prerequisites.
Flying Luminosity
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Shame, I was looking forward to getting another FW3A with 7A emitters. Guess now I’ll have to cancel that plan.

Dep668
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Now im on the fence of picking up a pair with sst20’s. Assuming it will come with the new optic.

swiftblade13
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I just ordered a sst-20 yesterday and then I saw the update,
I feel lied to,
Does anyone know if we can get the lenses from whoever lumintop used? I really liked having the ar glass lens to protect the optic.

Lick
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nobody wrote:

oweban wrote:
Wonder if there'll be a "cancel preorder" option before the 24th (shipping). I really want the FA3, but I really _don't_ want different optics picked for arbitrary reasons.

 

Too late to cancel mine. I received my shipping notice yesterday. Hope it comes with what I was expecting. 

How do you even cancel? I am going to cancel and add in the "extras" that should have been with the light now. Never had sapphire glass but I would rather be safe than sorry.

nobody
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You probably have to PM Neal or at the bottom of the email confirming your order you can reply with questions and such. I did that once with the email and Neal answered. You can try that. I saw nothing on the website. 

jasontheguitarist
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if you are in the US, LED supply seems like the best place to get real Carclo optics, they have all of them and free US shipping.

aeon
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Actually all orders up to now have been for the lights with carclo optics and the protective glass. I see no reason to expect something else to be shipped. I do hope that the change announced by Neal is for future orders, and that he can make Lumintop go back to the original design.

Geuzzz
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I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products. After the first series you are going to look for optimization. Lumintop has to think about themselves also and make this a profitable product with well sourceable parts to keep up with the demand. This makes that they can deliver these lights and new ones proposed by the community now and in the future.

If you buy a direct replacement of your current car, tv or even ikea closet you have no guarantee that it will consist of all identical parts. They all seek for these small optimizations.

Neal
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I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this.

Give me some time now.

Dep668
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Neal wrote:
I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this.

Give me some time now.

Have the FW3A with the new SST-20 switched over to the new optics already? Or is this for orders in the near future?

Klayking
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Thanks Neal, we all appreciate it! Smile

Will the Turboglow gasket fit under this new optic? I have ordered one of the gaskets from your store along with a new FW3C and a clear Carclo optic, but now I’m not so sure that I’ll be able to use either the gasket or the Carclo optic. It all depends on if the FW3C still has the glass lens.

acab
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I think one way to find a temporary agreeable solution would be:

- Offer a 30 $ variant for people in the groupbuy (with code) and use the cheaper lens/optic combination, this could also be the “mainstream product” for everyone else outside of TLF/BLF

- Simultaneously, offer the real glass lens with Carclo optics for 32 $ (with code)

This is just an idea, of course, but it might be able to solve the cost and complexity reduction effort at hand. At some point Lumintop can switch the entire run to a lens/optic combination after the groupbuy is “closed” or “has ended”.

DooMMasteR
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My first, warm white, FW3A arrived today.
I ordered two of them, but I guess I’ll have to wait longer for the second to arrive.
Anyways, quite happy with it so far… But damn it’s getting hot quicker than a two dollar pistol.

Paul321
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Dep668 wrote:
Now im on the fence of picking up a pair with sst20’s. Assuming it will come with the new optic.

Same here, now the cost goes up because Lumintop lowered their cost. Are the customers expected to buy a replacement optic and lens, to have what should be there in the first place?

Paul-

Dr.Tautology
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Neal wrote:

Lumintop change the optics to this , The beam is pretty though. smooth, and it has good color consistency.from Selene’s sample.

They already assembly to the FW3A, so if some one not accept this,let me know.

I also have 10507 optics and sapphire lens in sell.

If I receive this garbage I’ll be disputing the charges with my credit card company.

zak.wilson
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Geuzzz wrote:
I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products.

There are two related and sometimes competing things manufacturers do along these lines:

  • Value engineering – looking for opportunities to reduce production cost. These may or may not have a customer-visible impact on the product. It must be done very carefully if it will.
  • Continuous quality improvement – looking for opportunities to make the product work better, like replacing the non-rustproof screws on the otherwise rustproof knife with rustproof ones.

In this case, Lumintop has made a value engineering change by replacing a part that was explicitly specified by make and model with something else with different performance characteristics. They did this without approval from their customer (Neal). I don’t know anything about Chinese law, but in the US, Neal could sue them.

I do think Neal should be contacting customers with pending orders directly to offer them the opportunity to cancel at a minimum. The option of a free 10511 optic and lens installed by Neal prior to shipping would be better. That would cost Neal money of course, and he should demand that Lumintop cover his costs.

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justanotherguy
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Neal wrote:
I will talk with lumintop tomorrow morning, and will ask them if they can do something to fix this.

Give me some time now.

nice
I was going to get a copper 3D …kinda bummed about buying a carlco and glass lens separately

Dr.Tautology
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Same here. Neal’s website still states that it has a glass lens with carclo optic. So guess what? If you get anything other than that, dispute charges.

Geuzzz
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zak.wilson wrote:
Geuzzz wrote:
I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products.

There are two related and sometimes competing things manufacturers do along these lines:

  • Value engineering – looking for opportunities to reduce production cost. These may or may not have a customer-visible impact on the product. It must be done very carefully if it will.
  • Continuous quality improvement – looking for opportunities to make the product work better, like replacing the non-rustproof screws on the otherwise rustproof knife with rustproof ones.

In this case, Lumintop has made a value engineering change by replacing a part that was explicitly specified by make and model with something else with different performance characteristics. They did this without approval from their customer (Neal). I don’t know anything about Chinese law, but in the US, Neal could sue them.

I do think Neal should be contacting customers with pending orders directly to offer them the opportunity to cancel at a minimum. The option of a free 10511 optic and lens installed by Neal prior to shipping would be better. That would cost Neal money of course, and he should demand that Lumintop cover his costs.

Or you can consider it continuous improvement, lean even. If this was necessary to keep up with demands and have a good supplier of this essential part.

I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

Bob_McBob
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Geuzzz wrote:
I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

That’s because they changed it in the last couple days. The colour of the clip in the product photos has also been altered.

Geuzzz
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Bob_McBob wrote:
Geuzzz wrote:
I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

That’s because they changed it in the last couple days. The colour of the clip in the product photos has also been altered.

!https://i.imgur.com/lK8WhKX.gif!

Well that is indeed misleading.

BlueSwordM
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Wait, did I just see that they removed the glass lens?!

Ok what? How is that a good design decision?

The optic will get scratched that way…

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jasontheguitarist
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Geuzzz wrote:
zak.wilson wrote:
Geuzzz wrote:
I like the original setup better also, but this is what a good manufacturer should do with their products.

There are two related and sometimes competing things manufacturers do along these lines:

  • Value engineering – looking for opportunities to reduce production cost. These may or may not have a customer-visible impact on the product. It must be done very carefully if it will.
  • Continuous quality improvement – looking for opportunities to make the product work better, like replacing the non-rustproof screws on the otherwise rustproof knife with rustproof ones.

In this case, Lumintop has made a value engineering change by replacing a part that was explicitly specified by make and model with something else with different performance characteristics. They did this without approval from their customer (Neal). I don’t know anything about Chinese law, but in the US, Neal could sue them.

I do think Neal should be contacting customers with pending orders directly to offer them the opportunity to cancel at a minimum. The option of a free 10511 optic and lens installed by Neal prior to shipping would be better. That would cost Neal money of course, and he should demand that Lumintop cover his costs.

Or you can consider it continuous improvement, lean even. If this was necessary to keep up with demands and have a good supplier of this essential part.

I understand that you should never piss off your customer, but it says nowhere in the lumintop specs that you should get a carclo optic.

Lumintop does say “standard TIR optic” This all in one plastic thing they have created isn’t “standard”

To me, in a technology context, standard implies it’s an easily attained part that can be swapped out. A proprietary part created specifically for this flashlight isn’t “standard” at all.

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