Carbi Headlamp with remote phosphor

27 posts / 0 new
Last post
aswang
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 07/17/2018 - 07:53
Posts: 268
Location: Philippines
Carbi Headlamp with remote phosphor

Saw this upcoming (not so budget) headlamp.
https://carbi.com/?

Personally, not a fan of the 45 lumen lowest mode. 45, 125, 225, 450, 900, 1500 lumen spacing??? Too many high modes that are visually not so different from each other and no real low modes which are much more useful in a headlamp. The spot beam also looks ugly green even in their photos. Also not a fan of the yellow color.

More interested in the remote phosphor of the flood beam. I might be wrong but I think it’s the first time I’ve seen this utilized in a headlamp or flashlight. Could be a great solution for hot swapable lens to change color, CCT, CRI, duv on the fly. As opposed to using gel filters that reduce output significantly. Or maybe a solution to further overdriving leds without damaging the phosphor? Thoughts?

Pavlo
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 12/13/2015 - 10:37
Posts: 595
Location: Canada

Interesting light.
They use xpg3 LEDs. Looks like the wide angle lights use a remote phosphor, but how is that different than just a filter? Does the xpg3 used have no phosphor? Factory dedomed?

djozz
djozz's picture
Online
Last seen: 45 sec ago
Joined: 09/07/2012 - 17:04
Posts: 16433
Location: Amsterdam

There is a royal blue XP-G3.

aswang
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 07/17/2018 - 07:53
Posts: 268
Location: Philippines
djozz wrote:
There is a royal blue XP-G3.

Yeah. I’ve only read of royal blue and remote phosphor being used in one of MtnDon’s lantern builds. Seems like a good idea for floody lights and headlamps. Wonder what the advantages/disadvantages are?

Pavlo
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 12/13/2015 - 10:37
Posts: 595
Location: Canada

It sounds like you get better control on tint shift and ability to swap out different phosphor lenses to control CCT.

At 255g for the complete headlamp, it’s pretty heavy.

Mode spacing is pretty bad too. You would think with such a big team of engineers and product designers, they would do their homework and offer better mode spacing.

On the plus side, battery capacity is pretty high, at the expense of an external battery pack…

aswang
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 07/17/2018 - 07:53
Posts: 268
Location: Philippines

Pavlo wrote:
It sounds like you get better control on tint shift and ability to swap out different phosphor lenses to control CCT.

At 255g for the complete headlamp, it’s pretty heavy.

Mode spacing is pretty bad too. You would think with such a big team of engineers and product designers, they would do their homework and offer better mode spacing.

On the plus side, battery capacity is pretty high, at the expense of an external battery pack…

External packs are actually better ergonomically especially for heavier headlamps. My Spark SX5 is way more comfortable to wear than any of my 18650 headlamps especially for longer periods of use. The problem is waterproofing and durability since the wires and the connectors are usually the first to go bad.

It seems like they sealed the battery so you have to buy from them if you want spares or replacement. This, the mode spacing plus the app suggest their experience and knowledge with headlamps are restricted to petzls and maybe lupine.

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 6356
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

I only see 2 guys mentioned.
Small team of engineers then.

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 10403
Location: nyc

There are remote-phosphor lightbulbs where you can peel off the “shell” and use those with blue LEDs.

Might have an irregular curvature (ie, not flat nor spherical) so you might have to get creative if you want to use ‘em.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Pavlo
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 56 min ago
Joined: 12/13/2015 - 10:37
Posts: 595
Location: Canada

One of my favourite old headlamps was the Black Diamond Zenix IQ, with batteries in the back. But as you mention, wires and faulty connections are inevitable over long term use. Also while reading, and head resting on something, battery in the back is just awful, but for high output activities like running or skiing, battery in the back is great!

Pedro Albaladejo
Pedro Albaladejo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 01/14/2020 - 03:26
Posts: 5
Location: Taiwan

Hi Aswang,

my name is Pedro and I am the co-founder of Carbi. Thank you for posting our project in the forum.

I would like to clarify some of the questions from you and other members.

BUDGET: As you have guessed, even the price is not in the website yet, Carbi will not be a budget headlamp. We are working to reduce the cost, but as a startup and with a limited production quantity it will not be so cheap. Other reasons are that we are using only high quality components such as Panasonic cells, microprocessor with bluetooth, temperature sensor, battery monitor, aluminium case, sealing components, waterproof connectors, etc. Our aim is to create a really reliable and versatile product.

MODES: The modes are freely programmable with the App. The spacing in the specs is only intended for reference. smile I have added a note in the website to make it more evident.

SPOT BEAM: We use a White Cree XP-G3 (5700 K) and a Carclo lens. I am not sure what do you mean when you say it looks "ugly green". Any suggestion will be very welcome to improve this aspect. undecided

COLORS: The lamp will be available (at least) in 3 colors: Cloud grey / Shadow grey / Golden yellow

REMOTE PHOSPHORS: It has been used before but only for low intensity headlamps and with standard phosphors. Carbi uses custom remote phosphors (will be available in at least 2 CCT) and the most challenging part of the design was how to integrate the spherical surfaces keeping the case compact and lighting the complete field of view of the user. 

WEIGHT: 255g is the weight for a complete system (73g lamp with aluminum case + 128g battery including 18650 battery cells + 54g headband). We will also offer a lighter battery with 18500 cells. 

BATTERY CELLS: Every user have different requirements, so in the model shown in the website the priority was to make ultra compact and lightweight. We will soon offer 3 battery models: Sport (2x18500, sealed, not LED indicators), Adventure (2x18650, sealed, LED indicators) and Explorer (aluminium case, 2x18650, replaceable cells, LED indicators).

WATERPROOF CONNECTORS: We are testing different waterproof connectors to ensure their durability at extreme temperature conditions.

TEAM: The "two guys" in the homepage are me and my colleague (co-founders), but we have worked with a Design Studio in Barcelona, Electronic Developer from Colorado, Programmer, ... So, yes, it is a big team for a startup! wink

You can answer here or write me an email at pedro[a]carbi.com for comments, questions or suggestions. You can also subscribe for further updates.

“Expand your vision dramatically with Carbi, the lamp that adapts to your senses”.

gravelmonkey
Offline
Last seen: 4 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 08/17/2012 - 20:28
Posts: 262
Location: UK/South America

Can anyone smarter than me say whether this blue XPG3 and remote phosphor set up is really more efficient than a more traditional method such as LED+ floody optic or even a simple shallow OP reflector?

5700k is too cool for me for a headlamp, no mention of CRI.

Agree that mode spacing isn’t perfect, and low of 45lumens is too high.

I like the remote battery pack, it’s a shame more headlamps don’t offer this.

Edit to add: IP68 to 20m is impressive, I’d be curious how they prevent the water pressure activating the button…

Omega_17
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 35 min ago
Joined: 06/02/2013 - 16:56
Posts: 932
Location: France
Quote:
Aluminum PCBS Better Performance with Aluminium Circuits We used aluminum printed circuit boards to transfer heat from the LEDs to the rear casing and thus dissipate temperature efficiently and safely

Better performance compared to what? Everyone use aluminum! Big Smile
If you want truly high performance and better cooling you need to use copper. But its more expensive.

Quote:
SPOT BEAM: We use a White Cree XP-G3 (5700 K) and a Carclo lens. I am not sure what do you mean when you say it looks “ugly green”. Any suggestion will be very welcome to improve this aspect.

We are talking about the tint of the LED that you can find in the datasheet, tints in the green gamut are ugly. While others in the pink and red gamut are pleasant and more beautiful. Also CRI index is crucial for important work, for example an electrician selecting cables by color.

Pedro Albaladejo
Pedro Albaladejo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 01/14/2020 - 03:26
Posts: 5
Location: Taiwan

Some Remote Phosphor Advantages:

  • efficiency is improved by 20%, you can read in this article from Cree,
  • lower operating temperature,
  • longer LED and lamp lifespans,
  • better color stability in terms of color temperature and rendering index,
  • uniform light-emitting surface over a larger area,
  • allowed a customized lighting field (horizontally and vertically), to cover the complete field of view,
  • color output customization using a single type of LED.

“Expand your vision dramatically with Carbi, the lamp that adapts to your senses”.

Pedro Albaladejo
Pedro Albaladejo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 01/14/2020 - 03:26
Posts: 5
Location: Taiwan

Thanks a lot for your questions and kind suggestions. 

WATERPROOF: The lamp is not designed for diving. IP68 is tested in static conditions and the 20 meters are just the pressure that it can withstand before water leakage during 1 hour. Minimum IP68 rating is 1 meter and it is up to the manufacturer to claim a higher number.

ALUMINUM BOARDS: For many users not experts in the matter it is important to provide the technical details. We are aware that Aluminum is not an innovation.

MODE SPACING: It is freely programmable, the steps in the table are only for reference.

 

 

“Expand your vision dramatically with Carbi, the lamp that adapts to your senses”.

Quadrupel
Quadrupel's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 12/03/2017 - 10:40
Posts: 138
Location: LT

Use 4000K- 3000K hi-cri leds for God’s sake and for better fog and dust penetration !

Pedro Albaladejo
Pedro Albaladejo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 01/14/2020 - 03:26
Posts: 5
Location: Taiwan

Each LED board is independently connected to the control board, so it is possible to interchange or upgrade them. For FLOOD it is only needed to interchange the remote phosphors. So we plan to offer different options. It would be possible to choose between warm and cold light, but will you also interested in a mix, let's say cool spot and warm flood light?

“Expand your vision dramatically with Carbi, the lamp that adapts to your senses”.

Boro
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Joined: 02/03/2012 - 15:52
Posts: 637
Pedro Albaladejo wrote:

Each LED board is independently connected to the control board, so it is possible to interchange or upgrade them. For FLOOD it is only needed to interchange the remote phosphors. So we plan to offer different options. It would be possible to choose between warm and cold light, but will you also interested in a mix, let’s say cool spot and warm flood light?

Please consider sending a pre-release model of “CARBI” to one of reviewers on BLF!

Looks promising.

Quadrupel
Quadrupel's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 12/03/2017 - 10:40
Posts: 138
Location: LT

worst thing can happen for headlamp is cold spot ;))

aswang
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 07/17/2018 - 07:53
Posts: 268
Location: Philippines

Hi Pedro, thanks for posting and answering questions here in BLF. I’m sure a lot of people including me will be keeping an eye on your Carbi headlamp since it’s quite unique. I’m particularly interested on how it would perform while caving. The remote phosphor is also interesting and quite unique for a headlamp.

Good to hear mode spacing is programmable since it was my major gripe. Just to clarify, “Ugly green” is tint snob speak and most people here in BLF know what I mean. I’m sure xpg3 5700K or any tint bin will satisfy most costumers. The higher lumen ratings should also help it sell more. But you should know that there are a few people (including me) who are very very picky with led tint. Especially for more expensive lights. You can blame Nichia for that. Almost all of the commercially available lights come with the (relatively) greenish tint and low CRI and we tend to replace them. But, good to know that this can be done with Carbi.

Do stick around. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of good insights from people here. And I agree with Boro that if you send samples for testing and review, consider sending some to BLF gurus. I’m sure they won’t mind testing your light.

Quadrupel
Quadrupel's picture
Online
Last seen: 5 min 51 sec ago
Joined: 12/03/2017 - 10:40
Posts: 138
Location: LT

“The higher lumen ratings should also help it sell more” Ah, so whats why full ebay of 5000 lumen headlamps with cold tint for 10$ Big Smile

Lightbringer
Lightbringer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 08/30/2016 - 14:12
Posts: 10403
Location: nyc
aswang wrote:
I’m sure xpg3 5700K or any tint bin will satisfy most costumers. The higher lumen ratings should also help it sell more.

G3s of any sort should never ever ever be used in a reflector. They have nasty angular tint-shift and will always result in a urine-yellow corona around a neutral(ish) hotspot with angry-blue spill everywhere else.

Behind a TIR lens should be okay, as long as it’s well-mixed (eg, wider-angle flood with pebbled front).

And quantity-over-quality to me just screams “cheap!”.

Best to just look into the LH351D or ‘B for better quality light.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 6356
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

Indeed, and i’m quite sure anyone will be more satisfied with pleasant high CRI neutral CCT light without a green hue.
But perhaps most customers just don’t know this is very well possible nowadays, and just accept that LEDs are cold blueish white with lousy color rendition.

Jerommel
Jerommel's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 18 hours ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 13:18
Posts: 6356
Location: the Hague, Netherlands

Quadrupel wrote:
Use 4000K- 3000K hi-cri leds for God’s sake and for better fog and dust penetration !

And an overall satisfactory experience when using the light.
aswang
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 32 min ago
Joined: 07/17/2018 - 07:53
Posts: 268
Location: Philippines
Jerommel wrote:
Indeed, and i’m quite sure anyone will be more satisfied with pleasant high CRI neutral CCT light without a green hue. But perhaps most customers just don’t know this is very well possible nowadays, and just accept that LEDs are cold blueish white with lousy color rendition.

True to an extent. But I know people who still prefer bluish, greenish low cri cold white despite me showing them the difference. They find neutral white, even my gorgeous nichia builds, too yellow.

Omega_17
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 35 min ago
Joined: 06/02/2013 - 16:56
Posts: 932
Location: France

Anyone with normal eyes can notice the better tint and CRI. THe difference is they will just call it high quality light without understanding the science behind it.

Pedro Albaladejo
Pedro Albaladejo's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 01/14/2020 - 03:26
Posts: 5
Location: Taiwan

Boro wrote:
Please consider sending a pre-release model of "CARBI" to one of reviewers on BLF! Looks promising.

Thanks Boro, we will consider to send a sample for review. We have a few of our prototypes in Ireland, Spain and Taiwan. Where would have to be sent for review?

aswang wrote:
I'm sure a lot of people including me will be keeping an eye on your Carbi headlamp since it's quite unique. I'm particularly interested on how it would perform while caving. The remote phosphor is also interesting and quite unique for a headlamp. Good to hear mode spacing is programmable since it was my major gripe.

Thanks Aswang, Carbi was originally conceived as a Caving lamp trying to emulate the carbide headlamps light, but after we build the prototypes we found the flood light really interesting for many other activities where you need see around you. You can take a look to this video comparing Carbi with Scurion.

Lightbringer wrote:
G3s of any sort should never ever ever be used in a reflector. They have nasty angular tint-shift and will always result in a urine-yellow corona around a neutral(ish) hotspot with angry-blue spill everywhere else. Behind a TIR lens *should* be okay, as long as it's well-mixed (eg, wider-angle flood with pebbled front). And quantity-over-quality to me just screams "cheap!". Best to just look into the LH351D or 'B for better *quality* light.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. We selected the XP-G3 from a efficiency point of view, but we have also noticed with our prototype about that urine-yellow corona. I am ordering right now a few new LED boards with LH351D for testing. 

 

“Expand your vision dramatically with Carbi, the lamp that adapts to your senses”.

Boro
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 52 min ago
Joined: 02/03/2012 - 15:52
Posts: 637

Pedro Albaladejo]<p>[quote=Boro wrote:
Please consider sending a pre-release model of “CARBI” to one of reviewers on BLF! Looks promising.

Thanks Boro, we will consider to send a sample for review. We have a few of our prototypes in Ireland, Spain and Taiwan. Where would have to be sent for review?

I would contact on BLF for one of our thorough reviewers.

We have a solid number of outstanding members/reviewers .

Contact the member and good luck.

Go to forums and look under LED headlamps.

ciao