[Update]Wurkkos dual LEDs 21700 Headlamp design Photos/UI update~

Большое спасибо, андрей! :-)

I really like your vision of a good UI and I think most of your thoughts have made it into the (hopefully) final draft of HD20's UI. There are only two things I like different:

  • From Turbo mode: one click ▶ OFF is something I would not like at all. If I used doubleclick to step up from a normal mode to turbo, I would expect a single click to return back to the previous mode and another single click to turn the light OFF again. In a situation when I need full power for a brief moment, I would not want the light to go out with the necessity to start it again. Just my personal thoughts.
  • Personally, I don't like strobe modes and I would want to them to be hidden in a way they cannot be activated accidentally. It happened to me more than once that I accidentally clicked three times instead of two times and suddenly the annoying flashing, flickering and buzzing began. So, my proposal would be a compromise between convenience and safety (against accidental activation). Strobe modes will still be there but less easier accessible from the turbo mode submenu. Why? Because it is less likely to use another doubleclick when the light is used on full power already than a unintended triple click when using the normal modes. In an emergency situation strobes can still be accessed with enough flexibility by two/three/four doubleclicks in a row. Again, this is just my personal opinion but at least I hope this approach sounds sensible to many others.

So, lo and behold...the UI that I hope Mark can present to Sofirn for their evaluation.

Remark for Mark (Wurkkos): Please regard the green highlighted line items as a possible enhancement for using the ramping mode on HD20. If ramping mode is no option for HD20 right now, please just disregard the green colored line items.

I try to talk to Mark about emitter options a.s.a.p.

SST-20 5.000K 70CRI was probably chosen for reasons of low costs compared to XP-L HI. Another reason could be that Sofirn probably got quite some stock of SST-20 5.000K 70CRI but only few or nothing on stock of good XP-L HI with less than 6.000K. It seems it's difficult for them to get lower CCTs of XP-L HI. Sofirn might be able to test some Osram White Flats in the near future but since it is coldwhite only and difficult to handle (footprint/focusing) I guess we can rule this one out, too. I don't think anyone has ever used LH351C yet but their specs look promising.

Having the upcoming start of production in mind, I guess we need to decide between a coldwhite XP-L HI (probably 6.500K or maybe 5.700K) or a less powerful but smaller SST-20 5.000K 70CRI.

I think for LH351D 5.000K 90CRI we also have few options only.

  • LH351D 5.000K 70CRI / LH351D 4.000K 70/90CRI - never saw these available or planned in Sofirn's lights but I wish they were open for testing the 70CRIs of LH351D as their efficiency is much better (in return of less color rendition)
  • XP-L2 (but IMHO they probably have nothing lower than 5.700K) - as efficient as LH351D, beam looks good under a (fitting) TIR lens but awful in a reflector
  • XP-L HD (but IMHO they probably have nothing lower than 5.700K)
  • Nichia 219C - bad efficiency and hard to source for Sofirn as I remember from former inquiries

Some comments on the user interface chart:

"Activate Moonlight mode" would be more consistent with the rest of the chart if the wording was "Turn ON Moonlight mode".

"Temporary moonlight mode while holding the button pressed" could be more simply stated as "Temporary moonlight mode while pressing button".

"mode memory and changes apply to selected flood/spot/both LED mode" could be more simply stated as "Selected brightness and LED modes are memorized".

EDIT: maybe I misinterpreted what you are saying here. Are you saying that each LED mode can memorize different brightness? Meaning that I could set "spotlight only" brightness to "high", "floodlight only" brightness to "low", and "both LEDs" brightness to "medium"?

If so, then maybe wording should be "Selected brightness for each LED mode and which LED mode was last used are memorized".

"Activate Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)" would be more consistent with the rest of the chart if the wording was "Turn ON Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)".

EDIT: your original wording "Activate Turbo mode (both LEDs at full power)" is probably better since the headlamp is already ON ("Turn ON" wording would only be better if headlamp was OFF).

This looks great. I wonder if needed or good idea to add single led turbo on 2click +Hold & alternates led choice every 1 second till release.

Also not sure how 1H ramping ’ change ratio flood/spot’ functions? Why not cycle like stepped mode?

It allows adjustment of how much spot vs flood is wanted, vs having them both locked to the same output when both are on.

This is looking fantastic Lux-Perpetua and everyone else involved. Very excited for this light since I’ve been waiting for a compact spot/flood combo option for a while, and angled format with option for headlamp use is icing on the cake.

My two cents on the emitters is that you can’t go wrong with 5000K for both, it’s the perfect mid-ground. If possible XP-L HI would definitely look much nicer than SST-20 for throw - the 5000K SST-20s I’ve seen have all been extremely green (unless this light is PWM’ed FET only). I’ve heard the same about very green tint for LH351D 70 CRI, but some batches may be better? The problem with that in the throw role is that the 351D simply isn’t very throwy.

Thanks!
1)Yes that may be convenient. But it make ui logic more difficult. 1 Click is off , everywhere , exept turbo.
For example I use hi mode and than go to turbo and than want to turn off. On last step I should press 1click+1click , and I get not turn off but strob
2)Acording you to get strobes fast from off is 4 Clicks.

Also you miss hold from turbo. This is only way to get separate flood or throw turbo.
Another not obvious thing that
to get mid throw+low flood we should set mid throw , than set low flood , than go to both mode. In both mode changes are low+low - med+ med - hi+hi.

Thank your roostre! I have updated the chart i.a.w. your comments. And you were right with your assumption. Each LED mode can memorize different brightness.

Yes, there are some trade offs unfortunately. But turning the light off by one click from turbo would be rather inconsistent with every of Wurkkos's and Sofirn's flashlights. I must confess, I am much more used to using a second, separate click to turn it off from turbo. I am confident that 1 click + 1 click will not be handled as a doubleclick.

Would you often need strobe mode from off? 2x doubleclick is rather convenient IMHO to access strobe quickly enough from off.

Either way, I cannot disagree with you as I also see benefits in your UI vision but Wurkkos (and Sofirn, too) are also a bit concerned about too much complexity. To be honest, I would already be more than happy if they adopted let's say 80% of our common ideas for their UI.

If a hold from turbo drops back into lower modes IMHO that is intuitive and easy enough to access and consistent with many other lights.

Interesting idea. What lights use this kind of operation for example? How about the other way around....hold from turbo to turn off? Anyway, Mark is now sending the draft in post #118 to Sofirn for further evaluation.

1)May be .Will see
2)I do not need strobe at all)) Panda 3 don’t has strobe, and I happy with it.
3) There is proverb in russian “Ложка дегтя портит бочку меда.”(
a spoonful of tar spoils a barrel of honey) I know there are similar things in english too…
I like original Wurkkos UI for 80% ) It junt dont have fast turn on of moonlight and turbo , and memory of moonlight and turbo … So I dont like it in total,but If one changes only Hold for moonlight instead batt check and I would buy it)

hmm, After check with the engineer, XPL-HI may not suit for the optics use now, the first version may keep SST20 and LH351D for saving times. they have many projects in hand to process.

Hello Lux-Perpetua,

Please, let me reference this review, which maukka did. Based on this, LH351C could be perfect, where total power is of smaller priority (e.g. headlamps). His graph suggest, that the sweet spot with this emitter is at 3.0-3.3A, producing 950-1000lm (and all of this at CRI 90), which is plenty enough, if we think about the current use case (just be sure to get the highest possible performance bin, as maukka did).

I think, it should be relatively easily sourced, because Wurkkos has already access to LH351D.

Also, XPL-HI has higher Vf than LH351C, which means, maximum output will decrease relatively early, while draining the battery (but the difference is not that big).

And please, read this, which is a comment by maukka about beam and optics.

So, this emitter could open up some possibilities with small to mid sized throwy flashlights/headlamps (5000K and 5700K options to cover the range, which is not covered by SST-20 high CRI)

+1: LH351C is completely bargain priced compared to XP-L HI

On the other side, it is still not really throwy, but much better than LH351D in this regard.

Thanks a lot for the interesting summary about LH351C, adam7027. Maybe there's a chance that Sofirn will try testing this LED. The important step to make is that they would need to order it in a reasonable amount and use it for more than only one flashlight. Moreover, they would need to check if it's available at all. The only Samsung LED they were able to source so far was LH351D 5.000K 90CRI. I wish they were able to source at least 4.000K, too. I have some lights here with LH351D 4.000K 70CRI and - to my surprise - their beam quality looks nowhere greenish at all. The 70CRI's efficiency gets close to XP-L2 but with a much better tint in a reflector with less artifacts.

Anyway, without wishing to anticipate the odds look good that Sofirn will do their best to implement the draft UI illustrated in this thread.

I am indeed refrencing the tint ramping from the lt1, and honestly would find that far more preferable. The idea of being able to blend flood, and throw, and then have it remeber it for that brightness would be a wonderfull thing, and tbh, if this doesnt go that route, i might just build something that does that myself.

Thunite and Olight UIs both do this, as well an Anuduril/Narsil lights (they ramp down instead of starting the mode cycle). Wurkkos FC11 ramps down from turbo on hold as well, and I believe it’s how the Sofirn side-switch lights other than the SP10S operate as well.

It doesn’t return you to the previous brightness (if you go from on to turbo) but starts the mode cycle at the lowest non-moonlight mode and cycles up until you release.

For me personally not turning off from a single click in any setting is a downside for any light. Having to click, wait, then click again to turn off from turbo on my YLP Unicorn (because I forget to use the weird click+hold for off shortcut that only works in turbo) mars an otherwise fantastic UI.

I would not be upset with a 70 or 80 CRI Samsung emitter for the “spot” function. It cannot have worse tint/rainbow than XP-L2 and probably not SST-20 5000K either. SST-20 5K should be fine too, still much better beam and tint than the XP-G3 many other lights with the spot/flood combo are using.

Also the bigger holder the better.

……yes, that is the point about size and weight when we decide to use a 21700, for a input and output 21700 with more power and runtime…
Power and runtime depend on much more factors. For example from driver efficiency. So what kind of driver you will use?

As far as I was told, HD20's driver will use FET. The charging currents are 2A (recharging battery) and 1A (reverse charging from battery to external device). Please note that this is yet to be confirmed by Wurkkos/Sofirn.

Fet!? For 1500lm? I don’t think it is good idea. Buck or at least linear driver is needed here.

Thank you for all suggestion for HD20 and thank you Lux-perpetua to collect all information. And finally we have confirm the UI and the LEDs

Spotlight—Cree XPL 5000K
Floodlight—LH351D 5000K 90CRI

UI details (except the raming mode)