What really happens in Greece?

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zeremefico
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What really happens in Greece?

Hi, I received a private message from a member of forum, regarding the reasons a site refuse to post items to Greece:

Why doesn’t ***** time ship to greece ?? are you kidding ?? The things i’ve heard about greece these days is amazing ..I’m not surprised if no one wants to take that kind of a risk ..TAS said maybe the postal workers are going to forget to hold his mail ??? what planet are we on ? Forget ?? I admit to having had my head buried in the sand about Greece and it’s economic problems ..but after having read a bunch of things about the corruption and about attitudes of workers etc ..I’m still in shock ..It doesn’t sound like it’s going to change anytime soon either . forgive me for thinking I understand a problem of such great magnitude ..i still stand by my statement ..I was shocked .

I am suprised that people easily create an opinion for something, even If it is about a country of a nation, without exploring all aspects of that. My country faces many problems right now, but the problems never define people, especially people who during the years, have given great battles.

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taz
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Most people abroad are ignorant of what's the real situation in Europe right now, not just in Greece. It's true, there has been overspending in the public sector, far too many public workers, politicians taking money (show me an honest politician anywhere) etc etc, at the end of the day anywhere in the world its all about the money banks and hedge funds make, money (and oil) moves the world. They make money if a country does well, they make money if a country falls. If anyone wants to see what's going on they should come over here and experience it first hand.

 

 

zeremefico
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Horst Horstmann wrote:
Problem is, that most people’s opinion is based on the cr*p they gain from mainstream media.
Also, they don’t give a f*ck about what happens to other people, as long as someone tells them that everything is fine and nobody gets into trouble without being guilty.
That’s exactly the attitude of most people here in Krautland, they’re all complaining about all the hard earned money they’re forced to gift to the lazy south-europeans (which are doing a lot more work-hours per year than us, btw!).
They have no sense of solidarity, they allways bow down to their masters and spit on the rest.

I really can’t accept that there are people out there, who can read and have access to the web, and create opinion without searching first!

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yavi
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It is so complicated, I would never give an opinion like that.

I hope Greece will be able to solve the situation, as much as Spain, and other countries with this big problems.

I understand the big problem is mainly on the politicians, not the person who goes to work everyday and cannot change much the situation.

neverfeltbetter
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I really can’t accept that there are people out there, who can read and have access to the web, and create opinion without searching first!

My friend, you have really only touched the tip of the iceberg here.
I am german and the greece bashing that has been going on here for the last few months is just ridiculous.
If you have a world open mind this would make you vomit instantly.
It’s everywhere and it seems that everybodies frustration about their meaningless lifes is venting into what ever the media has to offer.
It is a nice way to keep people off the really important stuff thats happening in the background.
I myself haven’t watched and read any news for at least 6 months. It helps keeping me sane.

Whoever sent you that message should have done that in a friendly manner and express his concerns differently.
Have a great day.

Jinx
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Same in the UK, I think general opinion is that Greeks don’t work many hours and don’t pay taxes. I have no idea how many hours you guys do or what taxes you pay so I make no judgement unless I look into it myself. I do wonder if this is untrue where it all started and why it’s common (mis)conception?

I wish you guys all the best whatever the circumstance Smile

taz
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Jeansy wrote:
Same in the UK, I think general opinion is that Greeks don't work many hours and don't pay taxes. I have no idea how many hours you guys do or what taxes you pay so I make no judgement unless I look into it myself. I do wonder if this is untrue where it all started and why it's common (mis)conception? I wish you guys all the best whatever the circumstance :)

This is what we mean. The media, actually the "bad media" wants to create that impression. In fact, and there is there are recent EU statistics, Greeks work the most hours per week in Europe, and I think we have the second highest taxation after Belgium, much higher than UK. Unfortunately with the current tax system here, it is still the working class and the pensioners who still pay the price of the whole situation, and not the people who have loads of money.

Also, because there are many people here from the EU, and especially from Germany, I hope you know that although the media is complaining about the money that is given to the southern countries, and that the euro is in the decline, actually Germany is benefiting the most from a weak euro because it does tremendous good to German exports (and Germany is the top export country  in Europe). So Germany is gaining a lot from this crisis...

Apart from that, despite most people here cannot make ends meet nowadays, we try to live with dignity and still haven't lost our humor, hospitality etc, and we still are and always will be a very democratic nation.

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Well, the part about taxes is true, kinda.

Taxes paid in Germany: 450mrd. Tax fraud: 50mrd.

Taxes paid in Greece: 30mrd. Tax frau: 50mrd.

2 very good friends of my dad built houses in Greece. They had to ask >10 companies until they found one that really was willing to write proper bills, the rest wanted to handle it in another way.. Wink

 

I'm no fan of bashing either, if noone had believed Greece would be getting in trouble, it wouldnt have gotten in trouble. But refusing all the accuses doesnt work.

Whats the average age and wage for people to retire in Greece? I keep hearing its about 50, and almost 70%, but I tend to be very sceptical about what media says here.

Oh, on another note, that island of Greece where almost everyone is blind.. it does exist, I know someone who was there. Its not only the fault of lame politicians (look at those in Germany, most of them suck big time)..

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Nice one Taz, I’m sure the majority of you are good, hard working people. We here are told the same, we are the highest taxed with the longest hours but I don’t know where the truth is. We have some very bad apples in this country with a large part of society abusing the welfare system and sponging off of the hard working tax payers. We complain about immigration but the foriegn workers (mainly polish) are employed as they are not as lazy as some of us Brits, although they do also bring nasty criminal elements too Sad

taz
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Very true about the tax fraud here, noone is denying it. They are still failing to find a way to tackle tax fraud unfortunately, but this doesn't change the fact that most people here works like dogs. Tax system is so wrong here...

Minimum salary here now is 600€ per month, but if you take into account the extra taxes they are imposing and the cost of life here, you cannot live on 600€.

Right now I am on the island that had so many people "blind", it's called Zakynthos, that is settled now, they finally started tackling problems like that.

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Jeansy wrote:
We here are told the same, we are the highest taxed with the longest hours but I don't know where the truth is. We have some very bad apples in this country with a large part of society abusing the welfare system and sponging off of the hard working tax payers. We complain about immigration but the foriegn workers (mainly polish) are employed as they are not as lazy as some of us <insert any nationality>, although they do also bring nasty criminal elements too :(

I believe the same can be said of almost any country, also Finland.

..but I'm afraid this thread is turning into politics, which isn't allowed by site rules.

=the=

 

taz
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Jeansy, I studied in the UK, and was working in London (total of 10 years), I regret coming back to Greece and am considering moving back to London. I remember 10 years ago I started seeing the first of "bad immigrants" in London, and I was thinking that it's going to get worse. I agree that the UK should have stricter immigration laws, especially for those countries that entered the EU in the past few years. Imagine what will happen if one day EU decides to let Turkey in the EU...

You are right about the laziness of people. People like Polish etc bring skills and crafts, and do jobs that many Brits and especially the young ones wouldn't consider learning or doing, this is exactly what happened here also. Of course coming from a poorer country most but not all of them will try to take advantage and abuse the system over there in the expense of taxpayers like yourself... example: here with the current system most immigrants try to work for just 2 months a year so that they can have insurance (NHS) for 2 years... so they work 2 months and then they get health insurance for them and their family for the current and folling year... so you can imagine how this affects the system and how much it costs...

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Unemployment benefits sure change people’s attitudes. They don’t realize they’re being propped up by their fellow countrymen but they begin seeing it as an entitlement once it becomes such an institution. This isn’t a bash on Spain, but I remember watching an interview of Spanish citizen who remarked how he has no desire to go back to work because he has all he needs from unemployment and he could continue receiving it for a very long time. That’s just an example. I don’t know if policy has changed since then. Is that why unemployment climbed so high in that country?

I see the sense of entitlement in the workforce as the major destruction of society. I have sympathy for people suffering hardships, but I’m sick of seeing endless welfare handouts to people who continually make irresponsible decisions. And the worst of it all, these people still own iPhones while they’re buying food with stamps and going home to their Section 8 tax payer funded house. Of course, corrupt politicians are a blight, but they’re still just people like the rest of us and it’s our responsibility to keep them in check.

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does not matter. Any deal is based on what can be bought for a certain amount of eu and what for a certain amount of $ (or other). Imagine euro has fallen to half a dollar. In the end, not much would change.

zeremefico
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Vieplis wrote:
does not matter. Any deal is based on what can be bought for a certain amount of eu and what for a certain amount of $ (or other). Imagine euro has fallen to half a dollar. In the end, not much would change.

There are disastrous consequences in peoples life though. This crisis has overcome the “known” limits and there are no signs it will stop soon.

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weiser
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Horst Horstmann wrote:
Dude, if you don’t like the consequences of capitalism, then you should blame it on the ones that are benefitting in big numbers and the ones that still stick with capitalism, although it f*cks them up. Being jealous on the victims is… meh, better shut my mouth before I get banned. Oops

Lazy, manipulative people is not capitalism nor is it a product of capitalism. People can easily be corrupted, plain and simple. Would you rather leave it in the hands of the corrupt politicians so many here speak of?

There will always be flaws but I’m still grateful for what I have. Sometimes you gotta vent Smile

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Horst Horstmann wrote:
Average usual weekly hours worked on the main job

link

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/studies/tn1106010s/tn1106010s.htm

Scroll down to see how the data changes or can be manipulated, Figure 5 puts us near the top but the rest show us near the bottom, everybody thinks they work harder than others, it’s human nature

Vieplis
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zeremefico wrote:
there are no signs it will stop soon.

It will not stop soon (speaking of Greece). Greece has little industry, not much to sell. That is the main thing.
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here media say our government invested 3 million US$ in greece. now its useless.

taz
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And this "crisis" which certainly could have been tackled in a different way and at a much earlier stage (but as we said this situation benefits some), and will get much worse before it gets better, certainly doesn't benefit the US, as a stronger dollar means cheaper imports but hurts the US exports. I suppose this is also one of the many reasons why the US president is urging many times the heads of the EU countries to tackle this crisis faster, more seriously and more decisively.

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Greek Flashlight Community NOT in Crisis:

Free Flashlight tours in the mountains and seas of Crete for those who come! 8)

Vieplis
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taz wrote:

certainly doesn’t benefit the US


It takes the attention away from the US debt.
zeremefico
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ergotelis wrote:
Greek Flashlight Community NOT in Crisis:

Free Flashlight tours in the mountains and seas of Crete for those who come! 8)


E4 path is a great way to discover Greece with your flashlights!

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ergotelis wrote:
Greek Flashlight Community NOT in Crisis:

Free Flashlight tours in the mountains and seas of Crete for those who come! 8)

I still remember exploring the utter beauty of Mt. Ida and the surrounding areas as a teen.

Can one still go down into the “Cave of Zeus?”

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While many european countries are in similar economic problems and have classic problems with corupion I personally think that greece problems are of different cause and I’m not really sympathizing with them. I’m going to be honest, Greece for many years supported Serbian government (Milosevic) and helped them to avoid international sanctions with their “soft” border politic while many thousand of innocent civilians were killed all over former Yugoslavia states. They are also very persistent with giving Macedonia trouble regarding their name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute

What goes around comes around…

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I read so many articles about Greece and its current state of economic challenge. I have yet to fully understand
the countries economic down turn. I have friends that own Hotels and have family in Greece and the reasons are too many. Perhaps that’s the answer only its difficult to understand because too many contributing factors. I think everyone has been mentioned here..

 


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Chicago X wrote:

I still remember exploring the utter beauty of Mt. Ida and the surrounding areas as a teen.

Can one still go down into the “Cave of Zeus?”

Yes, i am planning to go up there soon again! At night of course!!!!

zeremefico wrote:
E4 path is a great way to discover Greece with your flashlights!

I have gone in the Samaria gorge, which is in the E4 too, at night!Magnificent!!!

chiefinspectorfinch wrote:
They are also very persistent with giving Macedonia trouble regarding their name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute

What goes around comes around…

I won’t comment on the other statements, you might be right, can’t judge. But on this quote i made, it is a big foul of you, if you study history and read all the good papers/reports globally(of course I do not mean the greek ones), Macedonia was a greek civilization and part of the Greek history, it is NOT part of history of a Slavic nation that wants to grab themselves from a great historic name, in order to create a solid historic identity.

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You might be right, but while Macedonia was one of the Yugoslavia republics there was no problem. As soon as they became independent Greece suddenly made a big fuss about it…

Society is like a pot full of nuts and bolts, finest pieces always end up on the bottom...

 

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zeremefico wrote:
. . . My country faces many problems right now, but the problems never define people . . .

Agreed. What we do to get into problems AND how we respond to problems does define us.

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Not to take sides with anyone, but its just business.

I probably wouldn’t ship anything to Greece…why would I when Ive heard other sellers dont ship to Greece and they may have postal issues. I would rather ship with in Canada, or within NorthAmerica.

Seller doest receive package within 45days asks me to make it right, or goes to PayPal and I am out the shipped item, plus the refund amount. So as a seller you want to make that chance as small as possible.

Just like a LOT of USA ebay sellers/US websites wont ship to me in Canada. They dont want to fill out a customs form, or get a postal quote or whatever, so no problem they just ship to USA only.

taz
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esrevenge wrote:
Not to take sides with anyone, but its just business. I probably wouldn't ship anything to Greece...why would I when Ive heard other sellers dont ship to Greece and they may have postal issues. I would rather ship with in Canada, or within NorthAmerica. Seller doest receive package within 45days asks me to make it right, or goes to PayPal and I am out the shipped item, plus the refund amount. So as a seller you want to make that chance as small as possible. Just like a LOT of USA ebay sellers/US websites wont ship to me in Canada. They dont want to fill out a customs form, or get a postal quote or whatever, so no problem they just ship to USA only.

 

I am an old ebay buyer, and in the past 10 years maybe I lost a package once or twice, in the hundreds that I received. At the end of the day if someone is afraid of posting something to Greece they can always offer recorded post. This is what I always suggest to someone who doesn't post abroad, and that's the smart thing to do if you are a seller. Recorded post never gets "lost" and buyer cannot lie about it. Shipping to Italy is really a different matter though... Silly

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