Suppose you wanted a compact 18650 light, what LED would you prefer? (See post #2 for arguments)

You can see the archived poll results on the Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20221220093741/https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/72591

well small & quality. why not high CRI.

Host: a compact 18650 host like the UF-2100.

XM-L T6 3C

PRO: Power of course.
Even though high will get too hot, it's nice to have a turbo mode (used with caution)

CONTRA: Less runtime, and it will get very hot (both of course only on high)

Nichia

PRO: Really superior color rendering. With XM-L 3C colors look quite pale in comparison, while the tint is only slightly warmer than the 3C.
Also the light will never get too hot.

CONTRA: Well, only half the total light output, but probably nearly the same throw (in a smaller spot)

Also see this thread.

It’d really depend what I’m using it for.
For outdoors I’d take the XML, and for indoors and small open spaces I’d take the 219.
I voted for the 219 due to the superior colour rendition which is beautiful, but for being practical I’d probably take the XML.

I agree about the use aspect. If it won’t be used where you’d notice the colour temp much, then would it really be a benefit?

Also what sort of reflector would you be using?

I’ve got a mix of XP-G S2, XP-G R5, XM-L T6 and a few XM-L U2’s and I have to say I think the XP-G S2 on a MOP reflector is probably the nicest mix for me and I haven’t found a real problem with colour rendition.

Nichia 219 any day. You get more runtime on max without sacrificing throw versus an XM-L putting out the same amount of light. I like the 3C quite a bit, and I have built a couple Mag XM-L throwers with it [see (1) below]. However, it makes Autumn’s red blaze look like dead leaves from the bottom of a lake compared to how accurately the 219 lights up the trees. Hyperbole? Perhaps :wink:

The high-CRI Nichia 219 is king for now and I can’t wait to see what comes next.

(1) +how come virtually no vendors, reputable or otherwise, sell 3A/3D tint XM-L on a PCB? I’ve been wondering how in the world has 3C become the ubiquitously renowned 5000K Neutral of choice when 3C tint does not even fall on the Planckian black-body locus. In the grand scheme of things, it’s really not a big deal, but I think if we’re ponying up extra for a Neutral option it should emit light as similar to its CCT black body radiator as possible.

Ok so this post confirms my suspicion. I have become a full-on, unabashed tint snob :frowning: and I used to be such a nice guy. I guess I’d like to know why 3C has become the standard neutral, and not a potentially superior tint like 3D. But I digress.

219, because XM-L in a P60-sized reflector is unpractically floody.
Also, color rendering of the 219 is simply amazing.

I voted neither. The XP-G 2 is where it's at, especially now that the NW tints are available. More throw than either xml or 219, ability to be driven at 2+amps, and longer runtime and cooler operating temps than the xml. Good stuff imho.

219 or XP-G2

I'm with Match on this. I'd go with an XPG2 also. Not enough throw and too much heat are the two biggest problems with a compact 18650. XPG2 throws better and seems to run cooler than XML or 219 making it better suited for small hosts.

FYI. The xpg2 at IO has a 3d tint.

because I have enjoyed the ones that I have. Since no mention was made of the UI wired to the LED in this case, an important part of the light is missing. Also, I’m not that worried about tint as some seem to be. I use my Zebralight SC600 indoors and outdoors day and night and it meets all my needs.

I like lots of lumens. You can always let a high-lumen light loaf along on low power and turn it up when you need/want it.

Solution: get one of each and carry them around for a while and see which you like.

Good point .. I'll buy the one you don't like ...can I get a better host ?

I'd say xpg 2 nw or nichia ..

paypal sent :P

I voted 219, I have a triple 219 in a slim 18650 package running at ~3A total which is lovely, but gets hot too quick on high (it’s SS) I agree with other posters that xp-g2 is probably best for a small body, I prefer my xpg s2 at 1.5A to an xml at 2.8A in a small reflector.

There is more to it than that. To select a 3C tint makes good sense, especially for a XM-L driven hard at a high temperature.
In Cree’s specs for XM-L you can find (on page 6 and 7) the chromaticity shift when the current and the temperature rises. At worst case (3 Amp and 150 degr.C) the sum of shift is so high as –0.018 on xc and –0.019 on yc. The bins are spaced at roughly 0.009 in the x-direction and 0.012 in the y-direction (in the area around tint 3C).
That means that a tint 3C driven at max will look like a 2D which is much closer to the black body curve.
The tendency is the same for XP-G, although not so strong. The tint moves away from green and towards blue when driven hard.
As you, I have settled for a 3D tint as this is close to the black body curve when driven both low and hard.

Intl-outdoors has different xpg2 tints. In small 18650 lights I prefer the Nichia or maybe an xpg2. As much as I like the XML and hope to get a hi cri XML some day soon. But in an uber compact light, I’m leaning towards the smaller emitter. 200-300 lumen tight beam is going to outperform a 400-600 lumen floody XML (unless there’s an aspheric lens added)

You cant go wrong with the power of an xml outdoors, but for indoor up close needs I love the more natural look of the Nichia 219.

Thats why I’m getting really exited about my planned build of a UF-HB 18650 headlight modded with a Nichia 219 driven by a DrJones driver running lumodrv inspired by this thread . I took the reflector off a nichia drop in I have to see what the full flood beam looked like without any optics and man its nice. It makes the tint of my ZL H600FW look a little murky green in comparison.

Cool, thanks for bringing that up, sixty. Knowledge assuages my concerns somewhat.

(if only Nichia would make a 4500K Hi-CRI rated for 3A…)