A few months ago, i bought a charger and a few 18650 protected batteries and charger from dealextreme.
Never had a chance to put them on heavy use.
Later on, i stumbled on a few threads with horror stories. Batteries getting on fire, toxic smoke, flashlight turning into a pipe bombe, fake cells…
Without the proper knowledge, I put all my 18650 into quarantine. I havent touch since.
But now, i had some read on the Nitecore i4 v2 and some protected darkmatter 18650 from a canadian online store wich, i think can be trusted (hidcanada.com). So, no more fake cells or knock offs merchandises.
My question, with the new hardware, am i safe as my eneloop? Are those hardware are newbie proof?
If you avoid short circuits and do not overcharge even unprotected cells in single 18650 lights are safe. With a proper protection circuitry you shouldn’t be in danger. Only thing common with any power source is that if you short the poles you’ll more probably get burnt due to hot wires. And lithium ion batteries can give out really high currents in a blink so a current limiting protected battery is always safer.
I think you should be pretty safe with what you got. The i4 is a good charger and shouldn’t have any problems. I do not have dark matters but I believe they are pretty good batteries, defintiey better than the -insert here-fires
Earlier post I did on 18650’s/lions https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/13130#comment-266749 . Lion’s and many battery solution when supplied “raw” (Not in a giant shielded plastic protected case with circuit) are inherently not “newbie” friendly and do not hold any “responsibility” towards usage safety or quality. That said I doubt you’ll have an issue if you keep your wits with you.
Lights that use a single cell are pretty darn safe. Use good, name brand cells from reputable sources (if they have xxxFire in them name, avoid them… too many scams and fakes are out there to trust). Use a good charger and charge the cells away from anything that can burn… I charge mine outside.
Multiple cells in parallel are OK as long as you use matched cells (same brand/capacity/age/lot) and make sure that they are inserted properly and are at the same charge level.
Avoid lights with multiple series connected cells… really nasty things can happen if you mix weak and good cells or have a cell go bad in the light.
Ok everyone, not sure if I should thank you or not But after reviewing all your precious comments, I think I’ll stick playing with my eneloops AAs.
I though I was ready to jump in the 18650 club, but seems too many risks. Making sure that te battery are all charged at the right level is “too complicated” for me. I dont have time to “monitor” my batteries.
Texaspyro, are you serious? Do you charge your batteries outside??
Yes. I have a table under a covered area by the pool. That’s where all the fun stuff happens. The house is stucco, so nothing to burn. I also charge stuff in a tiled bathroom. Again nothing to burn.
Actually, charger incidents usually lead only to smoke. But a blown cell can spew nasty, sticky, gooey carbon soot all over creation. Best not to have to clean that up.
I also keep my LiPos stored in the bun warmer. A nice sealed stainless drawer. I know people that keep their large ebike batteries in their ovens. Hopefully they remember to take them out before cooking Thanksgiving dinner.
A wise man always assumes the world and his toys are out to get him… if you always assume what can (and can’t) go wrong will go wrong you might just come out ahead.
Anyone ever heard of a protected Panasonic NCR cell venting with flame (or otherwise erupting somehow) under normal usage conditions? I haven’t. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but it’s gotta be incredibly rare.
With high quality cells, and a high quality charger, along with basic common sense, I don’t see the need to charge outside, or inside an ammo box (or whatever else). The only rule I strictly follow is to never leave batteries charging while I’m not at home.
It’s generally what I didn’t know that bit me in the ass. Keep reading about it and when you feel comfortable, jump back in. Get yourself a DMM and a decent charger and join the fun. But keep reading.
We have a research institute on energy sources and a division makes their own LiIon pouch batteries. They try different chemistries and they measure their charge / discharge curves. Their curves start at 5V. I asked if this is safe and they said they are safe to test even at that voltage if used under control, not overstressed or overcharged for a long period.
And they showed me another thing there. They make 1s5p 26650 LiFeSO4 packs for some high power applications. This is almost the safest chemistry you can get in rechargeable Lithium batteries. But in this lab, while charging these via a 120 ampere capable charger, they said a software glitch in the charger caused a negative voltage reading and continued charging one battery pack. They charge these in a strong environmental test cabinet and the explosion was said to have blast open its locked door. The cabinet was half burn inside.
So, there is nothing completely safe as you already know. If I’m trying an unknown battery or a new charger I charge my batteries on kitchen stove or in the bathroom taken enough apart from things those may burn in a fire. I still find my Sysmax I4 and Xtar chargers safe enough to use in my bedroom, if I’m charging quality batteries.
The risk associated with using high quality cells, in a high quality charger, used and managed properly, is so tiny that it doesn’t warrant such commentary. If you were to be consistent with your danger management regime across the board, you’d be doing things like turning off the main circuit breaker every time you left the house just in case of a freak electrical fire. And when you went out, you wouldn’t drive you car, you’d walk. And when you walked, you’d avoid walking along main roads just in case someone lost control and veered onto the footpath. You’d also be wearing a mask just in case anyone you happened to come into contact with was carrying a deadly disease. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point.
On the other hand, if you’re using cheap cells, and cheap chargers, or even quality cells with cheap chargers or quality chargers with cheap cells, and don’t pay much attention to battery management, you’ve increased the dangers by at least an order of magnitude. That’s when I might start to agree with you about such extra precautions.
Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean the danger isn’t real. I am new to this as well and in fact am waiting for my first 18650 cells, charger, and XinTD C8 to arrive. I don’t know the likelihood of these potential disasters happening, but I tried to reduce the risks with a highly rated WPA SP2 charger and buying protected 18650 cells from KumaBear here on BLF. I have a DMM and will be getting to know it well. Charging will take place on the patio. For now I am avoiding running 18650 batteries in series. As a beginner this seems like a good place to start to protect myself from what I don’t know. Once I have more experience with these batteries maybe I’ll branch out. Or maybe not! Depends on the “experience.”
Quality chargers don’t get hot while charging, at least with healthy batteries. But some cheap chargers with wall plugs get hot by themselves due to the low powered voltage conversion circuitries. They heat up the cells in time and this may degrade their lifetime in time. Li-Ion manufacturers do not recommend charging over 60 degrees Celsius, and over 70 degrees you see many warnings that these temperatures can degrade your battery or may result in fire.
Used 18650 from old battery packs may get warm while they are charged. They don’t explode immediately but care should be taken if you insist on using them.
Orders of magnitude more shit chargers and shit cells get sold on ebay and whatnot for basically every portable electronics (cameras, phones, etc). If this were some real risk, we’d hear stories about it all the time.
In fact, the real reason it’s even mentioned at all is due to that CPF ploy to sell overpriced batteries.
How have I gone off the deep end, exactly? All I did was put the dangers associated with Li-Ion use, when you’re using quality equipment, into perspective.
Do you charge your mobile phone outside? Your tablet? Any other device that uses a Li-Ion battery? Because really, the equation isn’t any different.
Before I got 18650s, I saw some incidents of 18650s exploding some videos, pictures etc. on the internet, I also really worried about them, and just wanted flashlights with AA (Ni-MH) batteries. But later I got them, used them a lot, and abused them sometimes (I also made some tests, tortured them a little to see what could happen in the worst case scenario), by the way I only use unprotected cells.
The ones exploded like a little bomb you can see on google searchs, are cheap Chinese cells; and cheap chargers used also.
It is impossible to know how and where they are manufactured!
Use a good charger
A good cell (original Samsung, Sanyo, or Panasonic etc.)
Use only flashlights with single 18650 batteries
And just respect these cells!
If you follow these, It is more likely that you die in a plane crash or car crash than you see a Li-ion explosion in your life.
But after reviewing all your precious comments, I think I’ll stick playing with my eneloops AAs.
to see what could happen in the worst case scenario), by the way I only use unprotected cells.