http://www.intl-outdoor.com/2-pcs-panasonic-ncr18650pd-2900mah-protected-battery-p-671.html
Looks promising.
Nice find 
looks like hybrid imr type (similar to cgr) with that 10 amp discharge rate
Its the NCR-line optimized for more current rather than higher capacity.
CGR is better from about 7.5A up.. and Sanyo UR18650FM is better up to about 4A.
Someone in german TLF discovered them first, I read it and thought people here would also care. :D
Performance comparision of the bare NCR18650PD against CGR18650CH, 2A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=72&akku2=99&a=2
…3A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=72&akku2=99&a=3
…5A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=72&akku2=99&a=5
Specification:
Still it seems like it can’t beat the Sanyo UR18650FM.
5A":http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=71&akku3=72&akku4=76&akku5=141&akku6=122&a=5 "3A
“2A":http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=71&akku3=72&akku4=76&akku5=141&akku6=122&a=2 Performance wise it's ever so slightly better than NCR 18650B 5A.
Otherwise just like other Panasonics, higher initial stage voltage, then it drops off steadily for a slightly longer time.
Sanyo UR18650FM, drops more initially but then holds higher voltage at lower charge and then rapidly drops when depleted instead of slowly dying like Panasonics.
Sanyo is around $11 shipped.
Panasonics $19-$26 shipped.
Best bang for the buck? Sanyo.
I love the Sanyo UR18650FM discharge curve :).
You would get slightly more capacity out of all the Panasonic NCR’s if you’d discharge them to 2.5V instead of 3.0V, which would be OK according to the datasheet, while lowest discharge voltage of the Sanyo is 2.75V according to the specs.
However, I think discharge to 3.0V is the most realistic comparision.
Besides, speaking of the “nicer” discharge curve of the Sanyo 2600mAh - here is another nice one, the LG ICR18650D1 3000mAh:
LG -D1 charged to 4.20V:
2A, 3.0V cut-off vs. Sanyo and Panasonic:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=122&akku3=98&akku4=154&a=2
3A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=122&akku3=98&akku4=154&a=3
5A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=122&akku3=98&akku4=154&a=5
LG -D1 charged to 4.35V (it is a 4.35V cell) using a charger by “cottonpicker” from the CPF:
2A, 3.0V cut-off vs. Sanyo and Panasonic:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=122&akku3=98&akku4=102&a=2
3A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=122&akku3=98&akku4=102&a=3
5A, 3.0V cut-off:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=99&akku2=122&akku3=98&akku4=102&a=5
The LG can be bought here:
http://stores.ebay.com/posehin/\_i.html?rt=nc&\_nkw=lg+18650+3000&\_sc=1
2 pcs. $19 shipped, directly from Korea :).
Specs:
It will be interesting to see which cell will replace the UR18650FM "soon" as its soon to be discontinued.
With our AMC-based drivers, we will get the longest regulated runtime from 4A up with the -PD cell. LG D1 would also be nice but there are no matching PCBs yet. Also, 5A are almost 2C for both cells.. and thats the maximum current they are rated for, while the -PD cell is built for more current. So in theory, it should have a longer life cycle compared to the other two.
@SabbelMR: You never responded to my PM or email I sent through the site.. but anyways, why do you guys only test up to 5A?
Panasonic (=Sanyo) is all about NCR now.
They will most likely suggest industrial customers to go for one of the NCR models as replacement for the “old” Sanyo UR18650FM.
The D1 is very good if charged only to 4.20V, too. However, of course, in that case the difference to the UR18650FM is not that big anymore.
Rumors are the -PD is just the 2900mAh NCR18650 with the PTC device removed, same as the CGR18650CH is just the CGR18650CG without PTC…
Sorry NightCrawl, must have overlooked these. I don’t write in the forum here very often.
We only test up to 5A as when we started the site, we compared different hobby chargers for their accuracy in discharge mode. We found the IMAX B8 and it’s derivates to be unsuitable, as it would always log less than actual voltage with high discharge currents, probably due to some underdimensioned internet circuitry / wiring.
So we went for the Junsi iCharger 106B+ which proved to be very accurate in the voltage readings in discharge mode, but is effectively limited to 5A when discharging 1s LiIon-cells.
Meanwhile, we did consider switching to a West Mountain Radio CBA-III or CBA-IV which would allow for higher discharge currents, however, we decided that for comparability, we would have to repeat all measurements that we already did using the new equipment and that would just be impossible, time-wise.
Another reason is that the site was started with focus to vapers (i.e. electronic cigarette users), and for these people, 5A is the maximum their devices would ever draw from a battery.
However, we might consider getting a CBA-III / CBA-IV and repeat the measurements just for those cells that are rated significantly above 5A. I will discuss that issue with the friend that I am running the site with.
Yup, Panasonic sadly is almost all about NCR now.. and Sanyo is focusing on 4.35V cells now. Might become interesting.
Indeed, I also owned a pair of these. The 3V cutoff is an important disadvantage for most flashlights though..
I think the UR18650FM will still be available for some time. And after that.. LG and Samsung are coming at Panasonic.. they have some nice cells.
So the -PD would have the HRL then? Its hard to imagine that a rather minor change like the PTC would have such a big effect.
Well, maybe you've been busy at the time or your website partner didnt forward them. I also tried to register in the DT forum, but those guys are a little picky about non-vapers..^^
I think it should be possible to match the results of a given cell and transfer those changes to the rest so that you could still compare them. Not perfect, but still fine I think.. there are also tolerances in the production process.
Buying a CBA is rather expensive.. I think about 300$?
The question I asked you via PM was about IMRs btw.. but in the end I ordered 5 different IMRs (including the new Samsung INR 20R and the Sanyo UR18650WX, where did you get those from btw? I found mine on alibaba after a long search..) and I'm currently getting them tested up to 20A.
Btw, have you heard about the Sanyo UR18650RX?
Ever since Panasonic bought the Sanyo battery branch, there is to my knowledge no more development on many of the "old" Sanyo types.
I assume the UR18650ZT (the 2800mAh 4.35V cell you referred to) will be discontinued sooner or later or probably already is, officially.
Well but 3V "offical" cut-off according to specs (LG) vs. 2.75V cut-off according to datasheet (Sanyo UR18650FM) is not a that big difference.
Yes. In the high-capacity ICR sector, I prefer LG cells over the Samsung, though. They just have got the "nicer" discharge curves. Take for intsance the Samsung ICR18650-26F (2600mAh). It is not that bad, but inferior to the Sanyo UR18650FM if you look closely.
The HRL is a different thing :).
And yes, the PTC makes a big difference! Remember that it is a piece of metal changing in resistance depending on the temperature. Current rush brings temperature, after all, that's the idea of a PTC - some sort of primitive short-circuit-protection, limiting the current flow by resistance change.
And as for high-current cells you want high current flow, a PTC is just "in the way".
The CGR18650CH, for instance, is rated 10A because it has no PTC. The CGR18650CG is the same cell, but with PTC, and thus only rated 5A. Due to the PTC, its performance is indeed inferor to the ..CH under higher loads.
Oh so you were that guy :)?
Yeah, there is some picky policy at the dampfertreff.de (DTF) about that :(.
But after all, it is a vaping forum...
<br>
And you are right, we have been quite busy. So sorry again :(.
No, it is way cheaper. The new CBA IV is $159.95 in the US ( see: http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=cba4 ) and approx. 180€ in Germany ( cf. http://www.wimo.com/funkgeraete-akku_d.html#cba ).
Uhm ... so many different sources, I stopped counting :).
Here's our test of the ..WX by the way:
http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=108
<br>
The new Samsung INR18650-20R (2000mAh, 20A, mangan chemistry) we are going to review soon, but, only up to 5A for now.
Not yet - thanks for pointing me at it! Found the spec.
So another 2000mAh power tool cell like the Samsng INR18650-20R - interesting.
<br>
Panasonic is also working on an NCR power tool cell (NCR18650E, 2250mAh) by the way.
But Panasonic cant give Sanyo up, they have to sell some cells under that brand. Maybe they will split between consumer and power tools.. time will tell I guess.
In total numbers thats correct, but most drivers step down at 3V. Thats alright for "regular" cells but the limit for 4.35V cells. And all the LEDs will draw more current at 3V than at 2.75V, so they deplete the cell faster. Its all a little theoretical but I think that reduces the cells lifetime..
You are right there. The difference is still there but getting smaller. Some new Samsung cells show almost identical discharge curves to the NCR lineup, so I think we are approaching a point where all manufacturers can produce good cells. Advantage of Panasonic: their cells are more consistent. I ordered 2 of the Samsung INR-20R from the same batch and they show a "huge" difference in capacity. Huge meaning: more than I'm used to seeing from Panasonic.
Of course the HRL is a different thing, I just hoped you'd know that because I couldnt find any data on the -PD..
If the PTC is the only difference, why cant you just draw 9A from the regular NCR18650? Or 10A from the CG? Voltage would be lower, but other than that..?
I dont know if I was THAT guy.. but possible. :D
Sure, and this is a flashlight forum. But we share the cells, so why not share the knowledge about it? Thats something I find strange.. but well, if its their policy..
Dont worry, nobody died! :P
Yeah right, I had it bundeled with the software in mind. Still a lot if its just a hobby. ;)
:D I spotted that test yesterday, looks promising. Too bad you dont have the AW IMR in your comparator. But I think we will see the AW dethroned in the 18650 form factor, even for a load of 20A.
My battery-guy is just doing the Samsung these days. Cant be too long..
I guess you googled it and found this document: http://media.nmm.de/54/sonnemann_panasonic_15.11.2012_15.00_26769354.pdf
Now if you scroll down to the discharge curves, the NCR18650E doesnt look that good.. I dont think its meant for high-power tools. Successor of the CGR18650CH maybe. Its available but hasnt been spotted by now.. the UR18650RX appeared in some battery packs in Asia. I really hope we can get it to Germany soon. :D
I have a couple of the Samsung INR18650-20R’s.
I put one in a direct drive xm-l U3 and it drew 9.8A then melted the Led in seconds.
By comparison, the Panasonic cgr18650ch measured 7A into the direct drive XM-L
Thanks, bookmarked!
CGR18650CH = UR18650EA
Cheers
http://www.nkon.nl/sanyo-eneloop-aa-aaa-batteries/panasonic-ncr-18650pd.html
are these ones protected? They look a bit ‘toyish’ to me compared to my xtar 2600’s being all green.
Nope not protected but panasonic get good comments on here
I’m looking for some new 18650 li-ions in addition for the xtar 2600’s i have, but i want something in the same price range and protected.