What 18650 light will out throw the Jacob A60?

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Badger4715
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What 18650 light will out throw the Jacob A60?

First an explanation for this question: I’ve been collecting lights for a couple years now and can count around 30-35 total that I own at the moment (sold/traded/gifted a good number as well). Started off with a cheap aspheric and really not knowing much about flashlights. As my research progressed and my collection grew, I ordered an A60 from dx. I prefer throwers so I was quite happy with it. It soon became my favorite light because it was small enough to carry on my duty belt (I’m L.E. and I still carry it every day) and because it just plain out threw everything else. Recommended it to a couple other officers and they love theirs. As time went on, I was always looking for the next and better thrower. The lights I’ve specifically purchased in hopes of better throw are: SmallSun zy-T13, SmallSun zy-t08, Trustfire X6, and Jetbeam BC40. Maybe I got a better performing A60 than typical, I don’t know. All I know is that it out throws everything else by an almost embarrassingly wide margin. None of the other lights can even touch it. SO…

- My question is: Are there any 18650 or CR123 budget lights out there that will out-distance the Jacob that ARE CONFIRMED by blf members or another reliable source?

  • post script** Advice to the webmaster- It would be nice to have an option on the search engine to display the most recent threads/replies at the top of the results, and get the old threads the further down you scroll. When searching for something like ‘thrower’ or ‘convoy C8’ it’s not very helpful when the top result hasn’t been an active thread since 2011…
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But it is 26650 Sad

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For a single cell you will probably need a modded light.
If multi-cell is an option you can go with one of MaxToch flashlights or Olight SR51.

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Although it seems to have run out of steam, this recent thread may be helpful to you.

http://www.budgetlightforum.com/node/33530

BTW you can search this forum by “relevance” or “date”

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Badger4715 wrote:
First an explanation for this question: I’ve been collecting lights for a couple years now and can count around 30-35 total that I own at the moment (sold/traded/gifted a good number as well). Started off with a cheap aspheric and really not knowing much about flashlights. As my research progressed and my collection grew, I ordered an A60 from dx. I prefer throwers so I was quite happy with it. It soon became my favorite light because it was small enough to carry on my duty belt (I’m L.E. and I still carry it every day) and because it just plain out threw everything else. Recommended it to a couple other officers and they love theirs. As time went on, I was always looking for the next and better thrower. The lights I’ve specifically purchased in hopes of better throw are: SmallSun zy-T13, SmallSun zy-t08, Trustfire X6, and Jetbeam BC40. Maybe I got a better performing A60 than typical, I don’t know. All I know is that it out throws everything else by an almost embarrassingly wide margin. None of the other lights can even touch it. SO…

- My question is: Are there any 18650 or CR123 budget lights out there that will out-distance the Jacob that ARE CONFIRMED by blf members or another reliable source?

  • post script** Advice to the webmaster- It would be nice to have an option on the search engine to display the most recent threads/replies at the top of the results, and get the old threads the further down you scroll. When searching for something like ‘thrower’ or ‘convoy C8’ it’s not very helpful when the top result hasn’t been an active thread since 2011…

Hi,

What you are looking at in the A60 beam profile is a mixture of the large reflector plus the tight XR-E Q5 beam profile. So yes, it throws, but in terms of light output and putting light on a distant target, there are lights that will far outdo it. The little “pencil beam” profile of the A60 (and its equal side-switch-equipped model, the Forest Tiger 550) is far less useful than an XM-L(2) thrower or something with throw that has more power.

Any of the Maxtoch throwers, the Yezl Y3, an original STL-V2 clone (single emitter XM-L), and a host of other decent throwers will put more light down range and on a target. I love the A60, I truly do, but lots of expensive and inexpensive options will provide better long-range illumination. But if you mean, is there any light with the same beam profile, form factoring, power, and throw that beats it, well, then not really. Just depends on what appeals to you.

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Crelant 7G5CS with ashperic head (also fits the sunwayman clone of it; zy-t13 or whatever)

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Tom E
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A good stock A60 will out throw most lights. The stock MaxToch M12 is a single cell 26650 light that will out throw a Jacob A60, but at considerably more cost. There isn't much around in a low cost options that will out throw an A60, unfortunately. The M12 has an XM-L2 U2 emitter, so puts out a whole lot more light, and a whole lot more light far out there. The new generation of MaxToch's have been greatly improved. The stock throw #'s are very impressive because of the enhancements the manufacturer made:

  • XM-L2 U2 on copper with a direct thermal path
  • higher amps than most stock lights (~4A)
  • AR lens

 The M24 is also very good, measures about 83 kcd, review here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/30709

The T13 and T08 we've measured stock, all are way under an A60 in throw. The BC40 is poorly designed for throw, being it has an OP reflector. The X6 - not sure, but don't think it was measured any better than an A60.

The 2X, reviewed here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/32247, was measured at 88 kcd stock.

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Thank you for the input. Any # of 18650’s is acceptable, and I’ve definitely read many good things about the v6 although it seems the zy-T13 is a knock-off of it right? I will consider one of these as suggestions for my next purchase. I guess what I’m trying to convey is that I know the total Lumen output in the A60 isn’t nearly as much as most of the xml lights, but as far as a real life comparison, for instance the X6 puts out a massive amount of light compared to the A60 but it just goes way out there and kind of loosely lands for lack of a better term, in an ambiguous wide spread area at its farthest point where the A60 seems not only to reach farther but there is a definitive area where the beam lands. So I guess I AM favoring the beam profile and not total light but that is what seems to impress people more -myself included. Ps. I never noticed the option to select date or relevance on the search engine so ib apologize for an unnecessary suggestion.. thx

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The maxtoch 2X cpforum test at 88kcd at 1m is an exceptionally low reading. I don’t know distance at which it was measured – certainly they perform much better at 10m.

Maxtoch’s factory measure for the new upgraded 2X is 120kcd at 10m. My own measures for 3 Maxtoch 2xs all gave the same output result at 112kcd at 6m. If you want a good thrower without blowing the budget, dedoming the 2X pops it out to 237kcd at 6m, or say 240-250kcd at 10m. That will give you alot of throw (about 950-1000m ANSI) and with the XML alot more light on target down range. A60 is no comparison.

But… I know of nothing in the sub $25 range that comes near my A60 as a pencil beam thrower.

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If you favor the beam profile of the A60 ( I do too.. The XM-L lights "wash out" the spot with all their flood light that scatters back at me from the ground before me) then there is hardly any light that will beat it in its stock form. The original light that the A60 is "cloned" from is a Solarforce Masterpiece I think it was called and has not been made in years. But that had higher quality reflector and lens and achieved the same output with less power used.

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Ok, it’s good to hear I’m not alone on preferring a tight beam to a brighter, wider beam. Everyone has their preference on what works for them. The Maxtoch definitely piques my interest, especially with those numbers. I remember reading about the Solarforce Masterpiece- isn’t it referred to as the MP1 or something like that? I actually did a lot of digging on that particular one, trying to find a used one but it proved nearly impossible. I appreciate the feedback, trying to find comparisons or specific light vs light results takes more time than I have available with work, a 3-year old and another on the way. I seem to recall a single xml emitter light from Thrunite that had great performance, easily besting the HD2010 but I can’t remember which one it was. I have held off on the HD2010 despite all the praise it receives because I just get the feeling by looking at beam shots and comparison that it would be another let down. Obviously the more budget friendly the better but I’m willing to fork out the extra dough to get what I’m looking for. Now I have 2 or 3 options to consider that were not on my radar before.

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I have a Jacobs A60, and so far there is no other single-18650 stock reflector-based light in my collection (or what i have tested including the aspherics i have) ) that out throws it, except for a modded DST i built.

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

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@ DBS: Ditto. Great value in a segment where the competition is... dead? No wonder we like it Smile

I've even thought about asking illumination machines about doing a single run, 100 pce, custom reflector for it and then sell them fully hotrodded with ucla lens, blf17dd driver and xp-g2 or xp-e2 leds. But the price would be high as the expected price per reflector is around the same as the light. And so is the driver... Oh well. I can dream, right?

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I guess to summarize I should say, Yes, I like the beam profile of the A60 and am interested in any light that might have the same spotlight-like beam but with (although not necessary) higher lumens and further throw.
side note On my duty belt I mentioned that I carry the A60 but forgot to add that clipped right next to it, I also carry a Bushnell TRKR-125 (or close to that. Don’t have it nearby) that I picked up at Walmart on a whim. Runs on a AA and has a warm white beam, very cool purple or UV beam and a red beam. I can’t tell you how useful the UV mode has been when searching for something small on the ground because sometimes the other guys lights drown everything out or what I’m looking for is white and the purple light turns it yellow! Honest to God that Bushnell gets more use than any other light because I can have it in my hand in a fraction of a second and because most times when I need a light, it’s for very up close work and is sufficient enough for that. The Jacob is a little more difficult to draw out but I only need it when I’m trying to get a look at something that I can’t get close to.

I have heard things here and there about a Deerlight aspheric that is a great thrower but for all I know, that’s a dinosaur by now. I’m also not crazy about aspherics but I’ve owned a few.

Finally, as an aside regarding my first post, I realize the Jetbeam BC40 isn’t anything special in the throwing category but I do have to say that it is without a doubt the finest built Flashlight I have ever owned. It just feels so solid in your hand, there is NO rattle and it is bright enough and throwy enough that the average person I show it to is more than impressed. From the box it came in to the extra o-rings, lens, button cover and the light itself is quality. It’s the only one that has ever given me anxiety about using it and getting nicks and scratches on it! Lol. My A60 is worn down to the point that everything but the head looks to be about %75 silver with a little black anodizing left over. The BC40 is my idea of a nice light- I’m sure there are nicer ones available but for my own collection this one wins the quality award.

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Happened to do some testing tonight on a dedomed lightweight Maxtoch M24. Very powerful thrower at about 180kcd (stock is bout 83kcd) and excellent distance. Lit up items well at hundreds of meters – tight hotspot plus quite good spill. My A60 not in the same league at all. This light v popular with hunters and law enforcement bodies:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MAXTOCH-Sniper-M24-Lighter-Versi...LED-Base-Longer-Shooting-Distance/314381_1769281159.html

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DenBarrettSAR wrote:
I have a Jacobs A60, and so far there is no other single-18650 stock reflector-based light in my collection (or what i have tested including the aspherics i have) ) that out throws it, except for a modded DST i built.

Again, the single cell stock M12 will and does out throw even the best stock A60. It what makes the totally 100% stock M12 pretty unique. It is an XM-L2 U2, so does throw a wide beam though.

The A60 is probably the best single 18650 thrower around, stock. It is a shame it's made so cheap - I can certainly imagine the anodizing (if you want to call it that) wearing off easily. There's guys posted about stripping and re-anodizing lights - wonder if the home anodizing method holds up better...

 Badger - I wouldn't bother with a HD2010 - same or not much better than other lights you tried. A "good" one is direct drive (no current limiting circuit), so only throws far because of the amount of current it draws, killing the battery quick and losing range steadily, quickly. Modded HD2010's are great, but stock, I don't recommend them anymore. I'd recommend the M12 or M24S, depending on size and runtime preference. The anodizing is top quality on these current MaxToch's, so will hold up much better. You can get better XM-L2 throwers, but all I know of will be larger (bigger head, wider with 3-4 cells).

The big issue for you is if the bigger hot spot is ok, and the added size over the A60, and if you will wear it, what holster. This holster fits the M12: http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004324/1330400-authentic-niwalker-nylon-flashlight-holster, but not sure if this type is ok for you.

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skylumen SL1 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?385316-WTS-1st-Sky-Lumen-SL1

240,000 lux and 1200+ OTF lumen

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Badger4715 wrote:
Ok, it’s good to hear I’m not alone on preferring a tight beam to a brighter, wider beam. Everyone has their preference on what works for them. The Maxtoch definitely piques my interest, especially with those numbers. I remember reading about the Solarforce Masterpiece- isn’t it referred to as the MP1 or something like that? I actually did a lot of digging on that particular one, trying to find a used one but it proved nearly impossible. I appreciate the feedback, trying to find comparisons or specific light vs light results takes more time than I have available with work, a 3-year old and another on the way. I seem to recall a single xml emitter light from Thrunite that had great performance, easily besting the HD2010 but I can’t remember which one it was. I have held off on the HD2010 despite all the praise it receives because I just get the feeling by looking at beam shots and comparison that it would be another let down. Obviously the more budget friendly the better but I’m willing to fork out the extra dough to get what I’m looking for. Now I have 2 or 3 options to consider that were not on my radar before.

The Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 is the one you are thinking of, it is abbreviated MPP-1 I think. The Thrunite you mentioned is the TN31, and is a phenomenal light from what I’ve heard, especially aftr modding, but relatively expensive. Thrunite has come out with a new model, the TN32, so now you can pick up the TN31 for about $100.

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Here's pics of the M12 and Yezl Y3 in holsters:

MaxToch holster for $6 on their AliExpress store (aliexpress.com-Holster):

or $4 holster from FastTech (fasttech-holster):

Showing the Yezl Y3, similar size light to the M12:

The two compared:

 

The "Sky Lumen" referenced above is totally modded and custom at high amps and 2.5x the cost of an M12, and very little information on it in that initial sale post, specially the quality of the finish. The MaxToch's are field proven, being used my military and law enforcement agencies. If you want to get into buying a modded light, that's a whole different realm of possibilities.

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Nice! Thanks for the pics. Both look like they are a usable size. I’m OK with a larger hotspot as long as it doesn’t just totally disappear like other xml lights. I guess what I like about the A60 is the fact that the hotspot IS more concentrated at long distances. It seems to me that my eyes can’t even see as far as the A60 throws (on a moonless night with zero light pollution) so it gives the impression that no matter where I point it, that little spotlight is always landing on something…

-sounds like it’s coming down to the 2X, M12, M24 and the Yesl. So now to do some research on what the difference between these is. Also planning to pick up a couple more A60’s and send one out for modding thanks to some members with great offers along those lines.

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The A60 can do over 200 kcd if properly done with a de-domed XP-E2, everything tweaked/maxed. A de-domed beam reduces the beam width even further.

The M12 has ANSI/FFL rated output #'s now posted (aliexpress-MAXTOCH-Mission-M12-Holster). They claim 615 meters which is equal to 95 kcd. Convert kcd to meters:

   SqrRoot (95000 / 0.25) -> SqrRoot (380000) -> 616 meters

0.25 is used for 1/4 lux which is moonlight.

Typical stock A60's vary, but range around 50 kcd to 80 kcd or so. My modded A60 with an XP-E2 with dome does about 130 kcd I believe.

My modified M12 without the de-doming does 130 kcd. De-doming can double the kcd (at best) and reduce lumens by 10-20%.

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Tom E wrote:

The A60 can do over 200 kcd if properly done with a de-domed XP-E2, everything tweaked/maxed. A de-domed beam reduces the beam width even further.


The M12 has ANSI/FFL rated output #‘s now posted (aliexpress-MAXTOCH-Mission-M12-Holster). They claim 615 meters which is equal to 95 kcd. Convert kcd to meters:


   SqrRoot (95000 / 0.25) -> SqrRoot (380000) -> 616 meters


0.25 is used for 1/4 lux which is moonlight.


Typical stock A60’s vary, but range around 50 kcd to 80 kcd or so. My modded A60 with an XP-E2 with dome does about 130 kcd I believe.


My modified M12 without the de-doming does 130 kcd. De-doming can double the kcd (at best) and reduce lumens by 10-20%.


have you ever tested the throw difference between XP-E and XP-G?

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Yezl Y3 is so pretty. Tongue Out 

Tom E wrote:

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Bort - In an A60? I tried an XP-G2 - could not get it focused so gave up. Others say they did it. Classic story though of the limited XP-E2 amps. XP-E2's throw better but are amp limited, so depends on your build and what you want.

Ohhh - stupid me. The Niwalker holster is back-ordered, can't find it anywhere else.

Badger - if the finish/anodizing is an issue, the M12 has a really good finish - called Military grade on their site, but it's a high qual HA III. Of course it's the trade-off of cost difference and quality, A60 vs. M12. The Y3 is still available for $25 from GearBest with the discount code of GBYEZL. Great deal on a quality light, but the finish won't hold up like the M12. Stock Y3 though is probably a little under the throw of your A60.

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Tom E wrote:

Bort – In an A60? I tried an XP-G2 – could not get it focused so gave up. Others say they did it. Classic story though of the limited XP-E2 amps. XP-E2’s throw better but are amp limited, so depends on your build and what you want.


Ohhh – stupid me. The Niwalker holster is back-ordered, can’t find it anywhere else.


In general i guess but i didn’t realize there was a focus problem, if i put an XP-G2 into a C8 will that focus

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Yes - I've done some de-domed XP-G2's in a Convoy C8 for example. Best C8 reflector for throw, as comfy says, is the XRE version.

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Tom E wrote:

Yes – I’ve done some de-domed XP-G2’s in a Convoy C8 for example. Best C8 reflector for throw, as comfy says, is the XRE version.


I have the parts for an XP-G (and sinkpad) and a Keygos M10 so when i get a soldering iron i will put it together but its good to know to use XP-E if i buy an A60

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XP-E2's in an A60 are a PITA to get focused well also. I stacked two centering pieces to get the LED further out of the reflector - that resulted in the best #'s. Think I detailed it in the A60 threads at the time. There's lots of mod info on the light. I never de-domed an XP-E2 in an A60, but one guy has done maybe dozen's that way - sells them in his local country, and gets over 200 kcd. He spent a lot of time perfecting the focusing though.

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I have no focusing changing ability, will i need to do it in a C8 with XP-G2?

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