Cheapo batteries explode

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Buster Friendly
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Cheapo batteries explode
Pulsar13
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Vented or exploded? Looks like vented. I’m gonna point to cheap charger on this, OC’d the battery and it vented as supposed to.

Omega_17
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Crap ultrafire battery + battery pack + crap charger + no surveillance = worst case scenario

Hikelite
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On local listings is full of garbage Ultrafire packs with free chargers for many flashlights sold. Everyone likes them and if you tell them they are truly garbage from all points of view, built-in safety, capacity, and garbage overcharging chargers no one cares because they say: "they are cheap, they are good enough for amateur usage"
Li-ion safety should not be taken in terms of amateur-usage  or  cheap-enough for just playing around!

A very informative thread about thread about cheap cells.

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/27603

snakebite
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wow big surprise!
a shitfire battery explosion.
some folks will never learn!

WarHawk-AVG
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Pulsar13 wrote:
Vented or exploded? Looks like vented. I’m gonna point to cheap charger on this, OC’d the battery and it vented as supposed to.

“venting” is a controlled explosion Wink
zak.wilson
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I have a MagicShine bike light that came with a 4-cell heat-shrink-wrapped pack. The charger is just a wall wart that plugs in to the cord that connects the pack and the light. I’m assuming this setup is similar to the one linked and probably not the safest.

Is there a direct replacement for this charger that won’t make the cells explode, or should I just build a pack that allows me to remove the cells and use a proper 18650 charger?

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Ricflair
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I do it outside on concrete in driveway. In a lipo safety bag in a drilled (for power cord) & vented .50 cal ammo can. So far been lucky.

RicFlair is on the air with blonde hair & pink underwear!! Whaoooooo!

Halo...
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Pulsar13 wrote:
Vented or exploded? Looks like vented. I’m gonna point to cheap charger on this, OC’d the battery and it vented as supposed to.

Half of the cathode / anode roll is hanging out! Big SmilePicture. I think this one exploded.
freeme
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Oh Boy, is the vented gas poisonous? I ever seen a youtube clip where an kid got choke by the gas due to unexpected venting.

zak.wilson
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It appears that vent gasses typically contain carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen and light hydrocarbons. Carbon monoxide is toxic, however the maximum amount released by venting an 18650 was a bit over 2 grams, which is insufficient to produce a lethal concentration from venting a small number of cells indoors.

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Newland
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Omega_17 wrote:
Crap ultrafire battery + battery pack + crap charger + no surveillance = worst case scenario

A precise and concise way to explain what happened Beer

Halo...
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zak.wilson wrote:
It appears that vent gasses typically contain carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen and light hydrocarbons. Carbon monoxide is toxic, however the maximum amount released by venting an 18650 was a bit over 2 grams, which is insufficient to produce a lethal concentration from venting a small number of cells indoors.

You forgot the Hydrofluoric acid. Big Smile
Quote:
2.3 Gas analysis
[…]
The GC was calibrated for H2, O2, N2, CO, CO2, CH4, C2H2, C2H4 and C2H6. Ar and He were used as carrier gases.

Note, that the current test set-up cannot detect HF, which can be a major source of toxicity of gas released by Li-ion batteries during thermal runaway.4


HF Hydrogen fluoride is very dangerous, forms corrosive, penetrating hydrofluoric acid upon contact with tissue.
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Yikes…venting battery = bad juju if you breath the toxic cloud coming from it

Jubeldum
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CatchFire!

a1penguin
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Those $20 2000 lumen bike lights with 4xbattery pack and charger have to be getting the bottom of the barrel batteries. I use single battery C8 style flashlight on the bars and a shorter barrel shaped one on the helmet. Single 18650 only flashlights thank you. Panasonic batteries, XTAR charger. I charge in the kitchen counter while I am in the next room watching tv where I can see the charging lights. I remove them from the charger when the light goes green. I do own a fire extinguisher.

And I don’t leave my laptop plugged in unattended either.

I’m glad this guy didn’t lose his house. Scary times.

gadabout
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I was under the impression that the gas cloud was highly toxic, but only Halo and Warhawk seem to have really picked up on this.

In case anyone else is looking at the pictures in the OP's post, I'd just like to say there is no way in hell I'd be in the same building with that cloud, let alone holding the leaking mess with bare hands and taking photos.

Simple ignorance or Darwin Award candidate?

Another factor not mentioned above is over-discharge.  Crap cells, crap charger, probable overcharge + possible over-discharge in a crap light.

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Yea, anyone who reads up on research into what li-ions vent would not likely be in the room with a cloud of that. The toxicity of all the gases and vaporized chemicals has not been fully established. A mysterious adventure with every cloud. Party

Hydrogen fluoride (HF) has a IDLH (Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health) value of 30 ppm. In addition to HF there may also be some nice phosphorous oxyfluoride (POF3) which could be even more toxic than HF.

Reduce your risk by using panasonic, sanyo, sony, lg etc with quality seiko protection, tested quality chargers & charge in a metal box so that you can worry less about fire, more about the cloud.


Counterfeit 18650s, 2,<a href=“http://

zak.wilson
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Halo… wrote:

You forgot the Hydrofluoric acid. Big Smile

Whoops! Well, minor detail. That stuff’s mostly harmless

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hank
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“the big problem is how penetrating it is. As soon as it hits anything moist – like your lungs – it dissolves in the water and turns into hydrofluoric acid again. And that soaks into tissue very readily, with the acid part doing its damage along the way, and the fluoride merrily poisoning enzymes and wreaking havoc. The damage isn’t immediately apparent, and there are terrible cases of people who’ve been exposed and didn’t realize it for hours – by which time a lot of irreversible damage had been done.” http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2004/03/03/things_i_wont_touch_1.php

Hammering on the point with explicit link — a good one — because sarcasm is wasted on the young, irony is dead, and people who wish to believe they’re not at risk will fool themselves about the risks.

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I did 3 whippets of HF last night at the office thankgiving party.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

Halo...
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That’s nitrous oxide (N2O).

velvetant
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And that’s the reason why when it comes to batteries and chargers I refuse to go cheap…

Bort
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gadabout wrote:

I was under the impression that the gas cloud was highly toxic, but only Halo and Warhawk seem to have really picked up on this.

In case anyone else is looking at the pictures in the OP’s post, I’d just like to say there is no way in hell I’d be in the same building with that cloud, let alone holding the leaking mess with bare hands and taking photos.

Simple ignorance or Darwin Award candidate?

Another factor not mentioned above is over-discharge.  Crap cells, crap charger, probable overcharge + possible over-discharge in a crap light.


skip to 212 seconds here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkP-b1ADvbk&feature=player_detailpage#t=212

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

hank
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Looks like someone’s invented a new sport — battery races — as it jets off the table. Was it on fire when it launched?

snakebite
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iirc lithium primary(single use) are the worst when it comes to hf production during a venting event.
cr2 cr123 ect.
if there is even a tiny trace in the cloud and you breath it your lungs are toast due to it binding to water and going right to work as acid again.nasty!

reppans
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I love this part….

Quote:
…One of my friends was round and managed to throw the pack into a biscuit tin in the sink, a few seconds later it went off like a roman candle. If he had still been holding it he would only be able to count to 5 for the rest of his life…

Throwing physically compromised batteries (insulation burnt off, positive button top blown open, etc) into a tin pan is like using gasoline to put out a fire. Wonder if they used water too. Big Smile

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Learned about toxic clouds in Hazmat training in the Texas State Guard (plus my NBC decon training in the USMC)…plus not to mention at any time if you sit for 10 minutes on a freeway you can count dozens of placarded bigrigs hauling HUGELY dangerous chemicals down I-10 where I live. (the most dangerous is the Walmart trucks…unplacarded but hauling hundreds of different chemicals in the back…)

Clouds of unknown substance can kill you in a few short breaths (Google Anhydrous Ammonia) It has happened before!
http://blog.chron.com/bayoucityhistory/2011/05/35-years-later-houstons-d...

Bort
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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
Learned about toxic clouds in Hazmat training in the Texas State Guard (plus my NBC decon training in the USMC)…plus not to mention at any time if you sit for 10 minutes on a freeway you can count dozens of placarded bigrigs hauling HUGELY dangerous chemicals down I-10 where I live. (the most dangerous is the Walmart trucks…unplacarded but hauling hundreds of different chemicals in the back…)

Clouds of unknown substance can kill you in a few short breaths (Google Anhydrous Ammonia) It has happened before!
http://blog.chron.com/bayoucityhistory/2011/05/35-years-later-houstons-d...


but walmart would never allow harm to come to anybody, they will prevent it at any cost but only if they are allowed to self regulate (sorry, i couldn’t resist)

The Journal of Alternative Facts TM

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of alternative facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists"

 

hank
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Just for the record, a couple new reports

http://www.wect.com/story/30374818/man-seriously-hurt-when-e-cigarette-e...

Quote:
The man is in intensive care after an e-cigarette he was using exploded and damaged his lungs. (Source: WBBH/CNN)
MIAMI (WBBH/CNN) – E-cigarettes …. can explode, something one man found out the hard way earlier this week.
Inside Kendall Regional Medical Center in Miami, heavy sedation keeps Evan Spahlinger a step away from extreme pain.

Spahlinger’s sister made the call to 911 when she found her brother in another room, burned and gasping for air.
“She went towards the explosion to find him completely covered in black, what appeared to be soot, throwing up, foaming from the mouth,” Stefanacci said.
Now a ventilator keeps his chest moving. The blast from the e-cigarette also burned his lungs.

http://www.wect.com/story/30358520/e-cigarette-exploded-on-charger-man-c...

Quote:
WICHITA, KS (KAKE/CNN) A man says an e-cig exploded before he ever even used it, even though he followed manufacturer guidelines. John Reser said it blew up while it was on the charger, throwing bits of metal and plastic around the room. Some of it even penetrated a wall. “It just went bam,” Reser said. “It blew up like a bullet.” “They say it’s safe indoors, but apparently it is not because it blew up and did horrible damage,” Brianna Reser said. “It could have hurt him. It could have killed our son. I just want to let people know that those things are not safe.” Reser says when he took the e-cig back to the store, staff pointed to a sign that read “E-cigarettes can explode.” He said they told him he needed to purchase a small computer chip to keep the battery from exploding. Reser says the store did not offer to sell him the chip when he first purchased the e-cig.

Odds are we’ll always see far more reports like this than of flashlight problems, because there are a heck of a lot more li-ions being irresponsibly sold to vapers than to flashlight users.

By the way, WTF?

Quote:
they told him he needed to purchase a small computer chip to keep the battery from exploding.
Streamer
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hank wrote:
Quote:
*they told him he needed to purchase a small computer chip to keep the battery from exploding.*

 

Translation: They told him to  Get a protected cell.

I would add, get a QUALITY protected cell Yell

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