XHP-35

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DavidEF
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gamezawy wrote:
I think this light UltraFire 1226 if modded for 4S1P will be nice with this emitter

Yech! :Sp

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vestureofblood
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....................................Apples to Apples to Apples Smile........................................


Ok men.   Let me start by saying that I do apologize for the misinformation given in my first post about the output of this emitter.      When I did the dead fall test just sitting the emitter in the middle of my light box I had not originally planned to post lumen numbers, but after seeing a side by side with an XML I assumed they would be close.

This was not only incorrect, it was a lazy and foolish thing to do and again I am sorry.




That said I decided that it was time to compile some hard data so I spend the past several days doing just that.    I wanted to get a true apples to apples comparison for this emitter vs XML2 and also produce some solid numbers for our application.   So off we go.



The first step in this was to use my light box as it was intended.   With the emitter shooting from the side rather than just placed in the box.

My setup is not exactly a "sphere" but its not a pipe either.    Its more of a glorified ceiling bounce.    As to its effectiveness I will let each judge for himself based on the data below.

Here is a pic of my complete setup.



Its a Styrofoam ice chest with the sensor mounted on the inside wall.







Phase 1:  Calibration

To calibrate with this setup I have always used a light that was tested by CPF member ti-force for me several years ago.   

I also tested 2 other lights I had with known output from a reputable manufacturer.   My 4sevens X10 and AA2.   My versions are older ones but I still have the boxes for output numbers.

All measurements are taken at the one minute mark because that is where I think the most realistic numbers can be expected.   This gives the light time to level off.   If I am not mistaken true ansi readings are taken between 30-120 seconds.

Lights used for calibration 8/10/15  Measured FCmultiplier from FC 
      
Shorty mag as tested by Ti-force 875 lumen  27100.322 
4sevens X10 640 lumen  20000.32 
4sevens Quark AA2 280 lumen  9140.306 
Test #2 Shorty mag 875 lumen  27100.322 

 

All of the lights tested very near rated output.   The far column is the multiplier derived from foot candles.    With those 4 sets of numbers to go off of I decided to use .32 as my multiplier for the following tests.


Phase 2:  Testing bare emitters

Now for the output tests.    All of these are bare emitters reflowed to a copper Sinkpad reflowed to a solid copper bar.

Cree XM-L2 U4 Measured Lumens Cree Chart 
1000ma 432 459 
1500ma 620 629 
2000ma 793 824 
2500ma 900   
3000ma 1100 1122 
3500ma 1238 ----------------------- 
4000ma 1369 ----------------------- 
4500ma 1478 ----------------------- 
5000ma 1587 ----------------------- 

 

 

Cree XM-L2 U4 de-dome Measured Lumens Cree Chart 
500ma 201 N/A 
1000ma 377   
1500ma 550   
2000ma 707   
2500ma 838   
3000ma 972   
3500ma 1091   
4000ma 1203   
4500ma 1312   
5000ma 1414   
Poof!     

 

 

 

Cree XHP-35 HI C4 Measured Lumens Cree Chart 
500ma 675 641 
1000ma 1177 1116 
1500ma 1577 ----------------------- 
2000ma 1888 ----------------------- 
2500ma 2010 ----------------------- 
      




Now in the beginning I said apples to apples to apples right.   So some of you may be wondering where I got the "Crees Number" for the U4 bin XML2.

Its simple.   If you look at the chart and see that when they up the bin each time starting at the base drive current of 700ma @ 85C, 20 lumens per bin is added.   So I extend that to the U4 and cross referenced it with the lumens to lux graph for the higher currents.   

I was able to extend the XML2 one out to 3 amps but for the XHP-35 I was not because the current table does not extend above 1050ma for that emitter, and I did not want to speculate on the exact rate of decay.

 

 

Phase 3:  Testing inside a light


For this I happened to have a pair of new lights that I could use with the same reflector and basic head.   My Shadow JM26 and TC 500.     Since the heads of these and my made from scratch project light with an XHP-35 in all had bigger heads than my sphere was built for I cut a larger hole in it and recalibrate.    This was also on another day ( the temp in my shop varies around 12 deg F from day to day.   From the recalibration I had a multiplier of .336 which I rounded to .34 so the tests from here are using that.


The subjects.


For these 2 tests I powered both lights from my bench supply for a constant current.

Cree XM-L2 U4 de-dome in Shadow JM26 head  (bench supply used) 
1000ma 380  
2000ma 683  
3000ma 969  
4000ma 1179  
4500ma 1285  

 

 

Cree XHP-35 HI C4 in Shadow TC500 ( bench supply used)   
1000ma 1030 
2000ma 1526 
2500ma 1564 




I also decided to take some lux readings from these lights and from the Arc of Josiah which uses the XHP-35 HI and a courui DO1 reflector.

Shadow XML2 lux @ 1 min was 238,500
SHadow XHP35 lux @ 1 min was 203,750
Arc of Josiah XHP35 lux at 1 min was 255,750

  

 


Here is a beam shot of both lights side by side on the wall. 
Left XHP-35 HI and Right XML2 de-dome





Phase 4: Summary

It is true that this emitter does produce approximately 21% more light in a flashlight than XML2.  

In this one test it does NOT produce more lux in spite of the SC5 platform vs an XML2 de-dome in the same setup.

Visually the hotspots in both light were very smooth and fairly close in size.   Side by side the XML2 produced a much more "laser like" effect though because of a tighter beam and less spill.     

Visually at long range outdoors the XML2 had a sharper hot spot for the same reason.   The range of the XHP-35 is about the same, but the spill surrounding the hot spot is much brighter so depending on your application and preference the XHP-35 may still be a better choice.


Finally I am in no way claiming to be one of the foremost experts in this field.   Nor am I trying to dispute anyone elses findings.   I am simply offering this as a set of hard data produced for a point of reference. 

Hope you enjoyed the showSurprised











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KawiBoy1428
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Nice work VOB, greatly appreciated! Beer

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DB Custom
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You should have mentioned something about doing this, I’d have sent you some XM-L2 U4 1C’s to play with.

Edit: Realized you might have been saying Cree doesn’t have the U4 on the charts, hmmmm……. don’t pay me no nevermind, I’m lost as usual.

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That was quite a test, Thanks. This makes me really desire a single cell drive to run top bin HD series. I’m not much into throw I like throw through sheer flood. This little led looks like a nice step up from the XM-L2. That wattage to lumens is getting really efficient.

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VOB, did you happen to record voltage during your tests so we can calculate efficiency & watts?

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great test – thanks for collecting the data for us!

 

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The best I can make out is that the output at 1. A. and nominal 12 V. is less than the XM-L2 output at 4. A. and nominal 3 V. So the main reason to use it is if you prefer a 12 V drive. That is less likely to be an advantage in a flashlight than in other lighting applications, but it might be important for such reasons as not having a low resistance switch that fits a particular light, or if one needs four cells to obtain the desired run time and doesn’t have an efficient buck driver.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Fritz t. Cat wrote:
The best I can make out is that the output at 1. A. and nominal 12 V. is less than the XM-L2 output at 4. A. and nominal 3 V. So the main reason to use it is if you prefer a 12 V drive. That is less likely to be an advantage in a flashlight than in other lighting applications, but it might be important for such reasons as not having a low resistance switch that fits a particular light, or if one needs four cells to obtain the desired run time and doesn’t have an efficient buck driver.

Take another look at the charts and Crees tool used for calculating output. Watt for watt the XHP35 HD puts out considerably more than the XM-L2. I’m talking about relative bins, top end to low end on both Leds. And yes 12 volt system does offer some advantages over the lower 3.0-4.2 volt lights (less strain on switches, less need for heavy wires and springs, less resistance sensitivity). I believe more emphasis will be placed on 12 volt Leds as they work so well in cars, campers and dc wired homes that usually run 12, 24, 36 and 48 volt.

vestureofblood
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FlashPilot wrote:
VOB, did you happen to record voltage during your tests so we can calculate efficiency & watts?


Probly none that you will find all that useful.   I used up all my XHP-35s so all I have left is the one installed in the light.   I went ahead and ran that and the XML2 de domed  again to get the VF, but none of the watt intervals really intersect.

(sphere recalib for .34 multip. (bench supply used)     
Cree XM-L2 U4 de-dome in Shadow JM26 head   VoltswattsLumens per watt 
1000ma 380 33127 
2000ma 683 3.36.6103 
3000ma 969 3.510.592 
4000ma 1179 3.714.880 
4500ma 1285 3.917.5573 
        
Lux tested @ 1 min 238,500 on 26650 cell       
        
        
Cree XHP-35 HI C4 in Shadow TC500 ( bench supply used)   Voltswattslumens per watt 
1000ma 1030 12.912.979 
2000ma 1526 142855 
2500ma 1564 14.636.542.8 



I would imagine if I had data at low ma like I do for the XML2 it would show the XHP35 out performing the XML2 by a good bit.    However with its smaller footprint driven very hard ( like we all do) in a flashlight it really doesn't do any better in lumen per watt.

The head of the XHP-35 light heats up a lot faster too.     If I decide to get more of these I may run some more side by side tests in bigger lights for a slightly more stable top end.

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Fritz t. Cat
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vestureofblood wrote:
The head of the XHP-35 light heats up a lot faster too.

I think the heat generated is almost exactly equal to the power consumed minus the power that comes out as visible light. Some infrared is radiated because of the heat and some maybe due to impurities or defects, but those are very small corrections. Since the efficiency is about the same, the heat is just proportional to the power in.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

vestureofblood
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Ya with more than double the wattage at maximum it takes about 5 seconds before you start to feel it getting gently warm.    By the 2 minute mark it would feel good on cold hands in the winter.     Since my new batteries came, I may see if it can handle some 5-10 minutes like that.Innocent

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Nice work. Much appreciated data! Wink

I have something coming for that good ‘ol XHP35… Come on Mr UPS man.

I like bright lights, and I cannot lie.

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i did a testrun today...

 

XHP35 on noctigon XP-G , not good centered (in depth) strapped on a Ledil Seanna 

powered from a LD-2 piggybacked on a 4P->4S converted SRK-clone (LD-2 gets 8.4V)

20cm long cables to the LED / bad heatsink / messy.....

 

 meas@3mcalc@1mmanufacturer 
Fenix P36TAC1344 lx12096 cd10000 cd0,826
acebeam K6017000 lx153000 cd124100 cd0,811
1405 M4D52000 lx468000 cd  
XHP35118000 lx1062000 cd849600 cd<readingx0.8

 not bad - or is it?

 

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ReyLight
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Where to get an XHP35? 

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vestureofblood
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ReyLight
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Thanks,do they ship to China?  Price is good.  I also conatcted Hank @intl-outdoor. Hope he has some.

I bought a TrustFire X6, will mod it with XHP35.  

Edit: the shipping is killing. 

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i ordered from cutter.

just get over 100 $ Wink

 

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ReyLight
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It sucks if they use the one-month snail shipping. 

Price:7.99  

5.64USD  (what is this for?)   

It says Alum star?   I thought Noctigon is made of copper.

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M4D M4X
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mine was shipped with dhl (4 days AUS-AUT)

i bought the HI Version
one on a aluminum star and a bare one (had solder on the contacts – i think they took it off from a star )

 

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That's pretty fast.  Do you know what is the 5.64$ for?  And is it an aluminium star instead of what the pic shows "Noctigon"?

Edit: Sorry, I just noticed that the HI version is  on alum star. Is it a DTP ?

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M4D M4X
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their prices are australian dollars Wink
so its cheaper a lot transfered to USD

for the other questions you have to contact Mark (username welight)

 

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M4D M4X wrote:
their prices are australian dollars Wink so its cheaper a lot transfered to USD for the other questions you have to contact Mark (username welight)

ah,AUD, thank you. It's an Aus based supplier.  Price is really good, is it?  the other stores sell the bare LED at 7USD,and no free shipping at all.

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WWEFANS wrote:

Thanks,do they ship to China?  Price is good.  I also conatcted Hank @intl-outdoor. Hope he has some.

I bought a TrustFire X6, will mod it with XHP35.  

Edit: the shipping is killing. 

I bet the X6 would make a great host for the XHP35. Did you find an additional extension tube that will fit to make it 4S?

I had the same idea for my X7 but cant find an extension tube that would fit.

ReyLight
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Damn, 3S could work, but not as better as a 4S. Will be checking TF if they can sell me another tube.

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3S is not enough
not even with HE2…

 

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3s is definitely not going to cut it.   Not enough voltage to get any real power out of this emitter.

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Couldn’t you just put in 4× 18500 instead of 3×18650? That way it fits and you get your volts without an extra extension tube.

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He could, but then runtime would be fairly pathetic. The glory of this light is in its heat sinking and extended run time because of it…

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vestureofblood wrote:

3s is definitely not going to cut it.   Not enough voltage to get any real power out of this emitter.

 

What resistor did you use to zener mod?  Still the 200r?

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