Jaxman Z1 Discussion

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teacher
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DB, does it re liquefy after the first “heat” cycle? If so, will it stay in place or be so liquid that it would migrate to unwanted places?

EDIT: Whoa, several post just showed up before my last two………. Facepalm .. I’ll read them now.

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The Miller
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Yes it does transfer heat thats what it is for Wink

DB Custom wrote:
Thermal paste is nowhere near as effective as a good metal to metal contact.
There are some adhesion losses with a mirror finish, but this usually doesn’t mean a lot to us inside a flashlight. For a light like the Z1 there is a cover plate that holds the emitter/mcpcb down so it’s not likely to move even if dropped or hard use EDC.

The key to a paste at optimum efficiency is filling microscopic differences, eliminating air. I tend to use the microprocessor instructions and apply a small ball of paste in the center, then lay the mcpcb on top and press it so that the paste spreads out. The trick here is to use enough without using too much, but even if too much is applied a good bit of pressure can push it out and the excess removed. Too little and there are air gaps around the periphery of the mcpcb.

Some small tooling ridges from a fast feed aren’t particularly of issue, as long as the surface is flat and true… true being important so the emitter faces the optic as perfectly as possible. What has to be weighed is the ability to reduce these marks while maintaining a flat true surface, it’s all too easy to mess up the paradigm while trying to improve surface contact, trading one issue for a more serious flaw.

Keep in mind a high end computer CPU running at 125/150W having a much lager area then a led star needs no more thermal grease about the size of s small grain of rice.
The Thorfire S50 I took the LED star out to send it to Maukka for some test, the amount of grease was perfect.
Lots of flashlights have way too much, it feels comforting to see dabs of the stuff.
When a star is pulled just some small ridges of paste should be there, when it is a full covring disc, too much.

Sharpie
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The paste is only necessary to fill out the imperfections.

Anything more than that is counter-productive.

The thermal conductivity of Arctic Silver V, which is well regarded, is claimed to be 8.7 W/(m·K).

By comparison, brass is 111, aluminium 204, copper 386, silver 407 (higher number = better).

63/37 SnPb solder, 50

Unless the surface finish is so good that e.g. the parts can be “wrung” together like gauging blocks, some sort of interface compound is probably necessary. Any microscopic air-gap will be worse than, I suggest, than even the poorest thermal compounds.

But soldering the parts together does seem to be, at least theoretically, a very good method indeed.

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The Miller
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DB Custom wrote:
The Liquid Pro made with Gallium is a metal that’s liquid at room temp and hardens or solidifies at higher temps, might go that route if you have copper to brass, it’ll eat aluminum though.

Wait WHAT !?
Please tell me more.
Here I am thinking solid liquid gas plasma is the order and based on temp
You rock my world here
Off to go googling this mighty interesting phenomena, thanks Dale!
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I think you may find that the gallium stuff is something like Galinstan alloy, molten at room temperature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galinstan

You spread it on, then once you heat it beyond about 80 C it may fuse with the heatsink materials, re-alloy, lose it’s low melting point properties, and set into a permanent bond.

With some rather reactive properties. Think of it as a very low melting point solder paste.

There are other metal alloys with interesting low melting points that might also be of use, e.g. Woods metal, and Rose’s metal.

Rose’s metal seems to have better potential, melts at about 100 C, and doesn’t contain anything particularly toxic. Certainly no Gallium, or Cadmium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose%27s_metal

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leroycp
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Just finished XHP35 using FX35. Used 10mm sinkpad and D4 5000K. So far Nice! Single cell Thorfire 5000ma protected. It went together very well and right at focus. I stripped the XHP70 and driver for this one. No problems with pill. I did lightly sand again minor wobble at center. Used a round centering ring which also acts as an insulator for the 10mm Tpad. Measurements later and seriously…pics. I now add the insulator disk (milk jug) to the spring side of any 26650s as you know why. I like this Z1 series so much days ago I did order another in XHP50. Love the no drama part. After dark will change cells to BASEN 4K and after that beef the driver up a notch. Signed: newguy learning

teacher
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Thumbs Up …. Sounds great!

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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DB Custom
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The Liquid Pro stuff seems to harden and stick after use, difficult to clean up completely if remodding the light in my experience. I’ve used it with some Sinner Cu EDC lights…everything there is copper so no issues.

Edit: It’s made by Cool Labratory, Liquid Pro, made in Germany.

teacher
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Thanks for the info DB….. Thumbs Up

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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The Miller
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Yeah that gallium is a strange metal….

leroycp wrote:
Just finished XHP35 using FX35. Used 10mm sinkpad and D4 5000K. So far Nice! Single cell Thorfire 5000ma protected. It went together very well and right at focus. I stripped the XHP70 and driver for this one. No problems with pill. I did lightly sand again minor wobble at center. Used a round centering ring which also acts as an insulator for the 10mm Tpad. Measurements later and seriously…pics. I now add the insulator disk (milk jug) to the spring side of any 26650s as you know why. I like this Z1 series so much days ago I did order another in XHP50. Love the no drama part. After dark will change cells to BASEN 4K and after that beef the driver up a notch. Signed: newguy learning

Great input!
Thanks.
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leroycp wrote:
Just finished XHP35 using FX35. Used 10mm sinkpad and D4 5000K. So far Nice! Single cell Thorfire 5000ma protected. It went together very well and right at focus. I stripped the XHP70 and driver for this one. No problems with pill. I did lightly sand again minor wobble at center. Used a round centering ring which also acts as an insulator for the 10mm Tpad. Measurements later and seriously…pics. I now add the insulator disk (milk jug) to the spring side of any 26650s as you know why. I like this Z1 series so much days ago I did order another in XHP50. Love the no drama part. After dark will change cells to BASEN 4K and after that beef the driver up a notch. Signed: newguy learning

Very nice. Thanks for the tip about the FX35 Kaidomain driver, single cell.

Where did you get the emitter ?

Beginning to assemble my parts list…

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I had two both from mtn so used what I had. The other is 20mm and using with 4 tube and heatsink added. Will switch to two tube when 26350s arrive. I had a supply of the spring inserts between batts and use them.

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DB Custom wrote:
Thermal paste is nowhere near as effective as a good metal to metal contact.
There are some adhesion losses with a mirror finish, but this usually doesn’t mean a lot to us inside a flashlight. For a light like the Z1 there is a cover plate that holds the emitter/mcpcb down so it’s not likely to move even if dropped or hard use EDC.

The key to a paste at optimum efficiency is filling microscopic differences, eliminating air. I tend to use the microprocessor instructions and apply a small ball of paste in the center, then lay the mcpcb on top and press it so that the paste spreads out. The trick here is to use enough without using too much, but even if too much is applied a good bit of pressure can push it out and the excess removed. Too little and there are air gaps around the periphery of the mcpcb.

Some small tooling ridges from a fast feed aren’t particularly of issue, as long as the surface is flat and true… true being important so the emitter faces the optic as perfectly as possible. What has to be weighed is the ability to reduce these marks while maintaining a flat true surface, it’s all too easy to mess up the paradigm while trying to improve surface contact, trading one issue for a more serious flaw.


OK, now this makes sense to me. This is how I have been doing it, without knowing if it was the proper way or not. But if it is good enough for you DB…. it is good enough for me. Thumbs UpWink

My goal has been to be able to visually see a small bit of the thermal paste come out from under the edges of the MCPBC when I pressed it down. If there was ever an over abundance of paste I cleaned it off all the way around the MCPBC and pressed again till no more came out. Then cleaned off any excess and called it good.

I’ll just continue down this path as it seems to be working well for me.

Thank you for the info DB, makes me feel like I was doing something right. Smile

I know a couple of factory lights I have just did not seem to be getting very warm / hot on Turbo mode. So I charged up the batteries and ran them on Turbo for a specified amount of time. At the end of that time I measured temperature in three places on the lights.

I then took them apart and checked to see how much thermal paste was under the MCPCB on both. On both of them the MCPCB was only about half covered with paste.

I reapplied thermal paste as described above to both lights and retested the exact same way. The temperatures measured in the exact same places on each light were all higher…. which told me the internal heat was being transferred better.

I know that is not very “scientific”, but does that sound like a correct assumption???

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

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The Miller
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Yes teacher if only half is covered cooling suffers
Sometimes there is too much and just cleaning one side to remove about half is fine.
When removing a heatsink +or in this case a star, you actually want to see the metal and small ridges of paste from pulling the parts away.

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That sounds right Miller, when removed it should look like there wasn’t enough. lol

I’ve opened many a light that showed clean copper under the mcpcb (or aluminum) and no paste ever touched the pill in that area. I’ve even seen more than I’d ever have thought with zip between em, nothing at all.

I’m a copper fanatic, I love putting copper under an emitter. If/when possible, I shove as big a piece of space filling copper as I can get between the driver and emitter. It’s been argued that what I do is overkill. That’s fine, that’s exactly what I want. I go to a lot of trouble making sure the light runs as hard as it can be pushed, so if I’ve got excessive sink under it, I’ve done it right. Big Smile

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Thank you gentlemen…. Thumbs Up

You never know how a horse will pull until you hook him up to a heavy load./"Bear" Bryant 

 .................................. "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast" ...................................

       Texas Lumens Flashlights / M4D M4X Deals : sign up - save $$$$  

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The Miller
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Wauw the light is in France (I know checking tracking … Facepalm )
Bit considered the price I kind of expect it to say Jax instead of Jaxman .
This is not all negative since I like Jax better then Jaxman bit begs the question, can I still talk about it in this topic?

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Regardless of the Jax or Jaxman designation, it’s made by the same people, right? Paul and his team made em, the name only changed due to technical issues with registering the brand.

Like Paul said, it’s still a Jax, Man! Wink

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Jaxman said earlier that the lights marked “Jax” are an older version and listed a few (minor) changes made along with changing the name, I recall.

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Just like Convoy’s have evolved, as do we all…

I guess Yourrid can chime in in his own thread and claim or reject the original Jax light as relevant here. That would solve all speculation (as regards this thread and it’s contents)

To my knowledge, Yourrid started this thread due to the Z1 thread being closed, a way for those that were building the Z1 from the host to still share their build for the rest that were interested. I would have assumed that The Miller or someone would continue the Z1 group buy. Shame for it not to continue, as it’s a really sweet little light and so well made.

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This is a good product, from a good supplier, but seemingly under appreciated.

And quite a few who seem not to wish it succeed.

I hope to clarify the situation in a few days time.

If you recognise the value offered, and would like to move forwards, and encourage decent suppliers, please consider this.

The Z1 GB will continue, hopefully with my engagement.

Otherwise, not, and I will also inform you of any such decision.

ISTM Yourrid has his own agenda..

If you respect what Jaxman have offered, and can see through the nonsense, and would like to benefit, please post some support here.

Soon.

Edit: Yourrid remarks seem to be gone. Thanks.

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Sharpie your thread was closed because of your attitude, please to not ruin this one too.

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I for one hope the GB moves forward. I have learned to appreciate this company, their products, and their efforts. We should at least try especially when the company is receptive. Let’s just do it!

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The problem is not the company its great, I’ve spoken with them recently and Iam amazed at the quick response, and very helpful.

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Lund1660 wrote:
The problem is not the company its great, I’ve spoken with them recently and Iam amazed at the quick response, and very helpful.

Lund, you have your personal opinion of me.

Please do not let it colour your general attitude to this thread.

AFAIK, until now, you did not have an interest in this torch, but like to inform us of your opinions.

If I have misunderstood, please discuss this with me by PM.

I am pleased to hear that you have had a good dialogue with Jaxman, and expect that that will continue, whether or not this GB continues, despite the odds.

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DB Custom wrote:
Just like Convoy’s have evolved, as do we all…

I guess Yourrid can chime in in his own thread and claim or reject the original Jax light as relevant here. That would solve all speculation (as regards this thread and it’s contents)

To my knowledge, Yourrid started this thread due to the Z1 thread being closed, a way for those that were building the Z1 from the host to still share their build for the rest that were interested. I would have assumed that The Miller or someone would continue the Z1 group buy. Shame for it not to continue, as it’s a really sweet little light and so well made.

Yes do assume I will receive an older version, have talked to Tom E and the differences are minor.
I’ll let you guys know when it is in what was in the box Wink

As far as groupbuy organising go, sharpie made it clear he likes to do it so like in the closed thread when something really needed attention I chime in and when he does take action it is all fine (and Sharpie has done so consistently)
So I am waiting on progress and know that Sharpie will inform when there is input to be shared.

I think that the received lights are build very nice and Paul could know now that people buying a host do know what they are doing.
Well he has said reading BLF is hard, not only because of language but also the Great Firewall plays a role. That some things go off topic or people can argue certainly will not help either.
But I trust Paul to be smart enough to see opening a groupbuy is a good thing since Jaxman delivers what is promised and buyers know what to do with the items. These two things are most important IMHO.

The set goal for 100 is tricky with a positive flow missing, the Z1 being a zoomie that tend to be less popular and ~$44 is a fair price it is by no means a very low price.
Seeing the cool things build, thanks to this new topic! Could bring more people on board.
But indeed Sharpie, please let us know what is the status and if needed hand things over to me I would not mind that.

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DB Custom wrote:
Just like Convoy’s have evolved, as do we all…

I guess Yourrid can chime in in his own thread and claim or reject the original Jax light as relevant here. That would solve all speculation (as regards this thread and it’s contents)

To my knowledge, Yourrid started this thread due to the Z1 thread being closed, a way for those that were building the Z1 from the host to still share their build for the rest that were interested. I would have assumed that The Miller or someone would continue the Z1 group buy. Shame for it not to continue, as it’s a really sweet little light and so well made.

All Jax/Jaxman/Jaxwoman Z1 discussions are welcome here Thumbs Up . I have both, the Jax and Jaxman version, and there is very little different between. I think the knurling is slightly different, but unless you have one side-by-side, it would be hard to notice any difference. Both are extremely high quality. And the Jaxman comes with a lens cover, whereas the original Jax did not.

I definitely want everyone to post their builds and specs so onlookers can make an educated decision on which way they want to take their build. Even though the last thread got shut down, I’d like to see what everyone came up with.

Talking about having a group buy is 100% fine, but this thread isn’t going to become the group buy thread. If someone wants to start it back up, then they’re welcome to on their own thread. I’d be happy to include a link at the top for people to find it easier as well.

Hoop is making some centering rings for me in a few different emitter sizes, so as soon as I have them, I’ll be putting mine together. I think I may have a spacer that would work, but I sent my original Z1 spacer to him so he can measure it accurately for the spacers he is making for me. If I can find a spacer that will work, I’ll be putting my host together this week. Beer

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Now, I don’t want to quarrel with anyone who’s expressed an opinion about whether there are any differences between the JAX and the JAXMAN models. I’d just like to cite a reliable source on the subject, user Jaxman, who posted on 5/30

Quote:
the on-sale Jaxman Z1 is a 4th version. The adjust is mainly pointed to little range alternations,such as O rings slot,threads length,head ring shape,lens coating,and accessories. I confirm the link mentioned is the old version because Logo is still JAX
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RUDE RUDE RUDE Ughh Ughh

Hahahaha, only kidding Big Smile

Thanks for the clarification hank. I haven’t taken the “Jaxman” apart and compared it to the internals of the “Jax” yet. Thanks for the link, I’ll be sure to include that in the OP so everyone knows what has been improved since the older version(s). Thumbs Up

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Thanks Yourrid!
Special centering rings? Wow you gt a lot planned!

And hmm, there is something going on with Sharpie, dropped down to 83 posts and I cannot click on it or send PMs
I give it 24 hours to see if I receive an email and will be going from there.
If I hear nothing I am going to contact Paul and see if we can get a groupbuy going since the interest is there.

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