Where to get eneloop + charger?

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kreisler
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SashiX wrote:
What do you think? Very slow charger? :|

A good amount of professional Eneloop info is listed on cpf.

slow is healthy. it is very instructional to compare the current Eneloop charger (www.eneloop.info) models. Charging speeds are given in the PDF/PDFs:

---------------------------------------------------------------

see pic below, the old charger MDR02 suggests

AA: 550mA/cell => 230min.

AAA: 380mA/cell => 135min.

---------------------------------------------------------------

See pic below, the USB charger NC-MDU01 what a f***ing name ha suggests:

AA: 850mA/cell => 140min.

AA: 450mA/cell => 280min.

AAA: 850mA/cell => 60min.

AAA: 450mA/cell => 120min.

---------------------------------------------------------------

see pic below, the charger MQN04 nice name suggests:

AA: 250mA/cell => 10h.

AAA: 120mA/cell => 8h.

---------------------------------------------------------------

see pic below, the charger NC-MQN09W suggests:

AA: 300mA/cell => 7.5h.

AAA: 150mA/cell => 6h.

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

and finally, see pic below, the charger NC-MQR06W suggests:

AA: 1680mA/cell => 75mins.

AA: 1120mA/cell => 110mins.

AA: 560mA/cell => 220mins.

AAA: 840mA/cell => 65mins.

AAA: 560mA/cell => 100mins.

AAA: 280mA/cell => 200mins.

---------------------------------------------------------------

see pic below, the official specs for Eneloop AA suggest:

AA: 1C == 2000mA/cell => 1.1h.

AA: 0.1C == 200mA/cell => 16h.

---------------------------------------------------------------

see pic below, the official specs for Eneloop AAA suggest:

AAA: 1C == 800mA/cell => 1.1h.

AAA: 0.1C == 80mA/cell => 16h.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If we collect the above 10 data points for AA and for AAA respectively and visualize them in a graph, then by visual inspection we can tell that the points are consistent (they both form a smooth curve with no outliers):

AA: relationship between input amperage/cell (mAh) vs. charge time (mins.)

AAA: relationship between input amperage/cell (mAh) vs. charge time (mins.)

It also means that we could choose any input amperage-per-cell from the blue curve, i.e. an amperage which lies between 0.1C (the "Break-In") and 1C (the "Fast Charge"):

Freedome for everyone!! Cool
So following the Maha recommendation of min. 0.33C we get from the graphs:

Quote:

AA: 0.33 * 2000 = 660mAh => <192mins.

AAA: 0.33 * 800 = 264mAh => <220mins.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
Hobbyfotograaf
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I have just bought these Eneloop AA batteries in Germany http://www.kq-shop.de/Akkus/Sanyo-Eneloop/SANYO-16er-Akku-eneloop-AA-HR-3UTGA-Neueste-Version::451.html .

But next week there are Top Craft "Ready to use" batteries in the Aldi (Belgium), these have about the same capacity as the Eneloops (a little bit more), and they are much cheaper (4,99 euro / 4 AA). I am using Top Craft AA and AAA "Ready to use" batteries for more than 2 years now, and they are still very good.

I am also using the Maha MH-C9000 to charge the batteries, it is probably the best AAA and AA charger on the market at this moment.

To charge 2000mAh AA batteries, 1000mA charging current is perfect. With higher currents they will heat up too much and that is not very good for the lifetime of the batteries. It is possible to charge the batteries faster with the Maha-charger, but for me it is fast enough at 1000mA (= standard setting).

SashiX
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U da man, kreisler Wink Thanks you very much for that info Smile

I was thinking on buy some AAA to replace in my Panasonic phone, and will try to buy slightly faster charger with AAA (pack). Don't want to buy brand batts from DX and such.

(algun español por aqui que sabe donde se pueden comprar Eneloops u otras como GP, Varta y tal en España u Europa, y baratas?? Smile )

kreisler
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la bahia no te sale¿

los comerciantes de la plaza de amazonas venden su kagada tambien ahi al mismo precio

super baratas menos de dos euronas por kada pila enelupa jaja krxxj

mi espaniol todo kagón ggFoot in Mouth

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
mfm
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kreisler wrote:

true, even that is mentioned in the Eneloop handbook. slowly charging (but not too slow!) is healthier. charger manuals recommend not to charge slower than 0.33C (for reasons i didnt understand) 

The problem with charging too slow (like less than 0.33C) is that it makes it harder for the charger to detect that the battery is full, and it's more important the older the battery gets. So while the actual slow charging is OK, the big chance of overcharge (BAD!) makes it less desirable. Also remember that the "Eneloop handbook" is written by European marketers, not by the Japanese engineers.

The ONLY reason any of these Eneloop chargers charge with a lower than 0.85C rate is to maximize profits for Sanyo/Panasonic, there is no technical reason (except slow is cheap to build). Eneloops don't need forming charges either, they're already charged from the factory.

I think it was Duracell engineers that wrote a long document on NiMH charging where they stated that Fast Charge at 1C with delta termperature termination (terminate if temperature change is more than 1 degree per minute) was absolutely the best charging method. 

I compared the Sanyo MQH02 with one of the newer Eneloop chargers and found that the MQH02 could do the "perfect" Delta-Temp termination. So why discontinue this model for more expensive ones that are slow and have unreliable termination?

To maximize quarterly profits.

SashiX
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kreisler wrote:

la bahia no te sale¿

los comerciantes de la plaza de amazonas venden su kagada tambien ahi al mismo precio

super baratas menos de dos euronas por kada pila enelupa jaja krxxj

mi espaniol todo kagón ggFoot in Mouth

lol :bigsmile: (no te esfuerces que yo te entiendo en ingles perfectamente :bigsmile: )

The thing is... too many cheap chinese crap out there (and for the same price as original one!!!), at least in eBay. If someone who bought legit Sanyo can tell me good vendor, I will be very grateful Wink

What about Amazon? Legit?

I bought all my batts from CorteIngles or MediaMarket. So far so good. 

Boaz
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 duraloops

and the cef23 duracell charger

last one i bought was 13$ and came with 4 AA batteries

usb   /dc in the side / independant

easy

one of the best things to buy off ebay ...duraloops

       καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν

                            

       Dc-fix diffuser film  >…  http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42208

SashiX
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All legit? No chinese crap? Are you sure? i.e. buy with confidence? :bigsmile:

esrevenge
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Boaz wrote:

 duraloops

and the cef23 duracell charger

last one i bought was 13$ and came with 4 AA batteries

usb   /dc in the side / independant

easy

one of the best things to buy off ebay ...duraloops

Can you please let me know the link to where you bought from.

how2
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mfm wrote:

The ONLY reason any of these Eneloop chargers charge with a lower than 0.85C rate is to maximize profits for Sanyo/Panasonic, there is no technical reason (except slow is cheap to build). Eneloops don't need forming charges either, they're already charged from the factory.

mfm I have this charger. sanyo NC-MQR06W.

What is the best charging rate for the follow?

1xAA is it 560mA or 1680mA

2xAA is it 560mA or 1120mA

1xAAA is it 280mA or 840mA

2xAAA is it 280mA or 560mA

The question I'm trying to ask is that I want batter life, if I charge at the higher rate will it effect the battery life or capacity. Speed is not that important to me but the faster the better without effecting the battery life and capacity.

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kreisler
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how2 wrote:
The question I'm trying to ask is that I want batter life, if I charge at the higher rate will it effect the battery life or capacity. Speed is not that important to me but the faster the better without effecting the battery life and capacity.

hopefully mfm understands your question. we're talking about Eneloop AA's, right? here is kreisler's contribution summarized in a nutshell after having studied the subject on CPF plus my own experience confirming it:

+ Eneloops are cheap. Check ebay, 1 cell costs 1.70€. other brands purchased from a local small retailer are more expensive! so dont be worried about price/loss of money or eventual aging effects after 10yrs of use!

+ Eneloops are no-brainers. they dont age (if you have C9000 to do a forming charge called "Break-In"), and you dont have to take special care of them. whatever and how often you do with them, no problem. other cells would age because of a user's abuse, Eneloops dont. if there is an Eneloop flying around in your house and you dont know its charge status (100%, 60%, 20%, whatever) -- and this is the case with most users in the world because only few possess a DMM or C9000 or BC-700 -- then just use it (until depletion) or recharge it. this decision will not affect the Eneloop's life or age or quality. Eneloops are robust, keep their charge, and they are designed to be used this way: as no-brainers. Just trust Sanyo/Panasonic and the 1.70€ which you once paid for it!! -- And once you learned to trust this no-brainer procedure, using Eneloops will turn into joy and green and happiness, instead of worrying about aging, cellulite and whatnot.

+ have you read the info in this thread, incl. the PDF-specs sheet for Eneloops and discharge graphs? you'll learn that the Eneloops like "high flow rates" .. at least they dont harm them. call a C9000 technician and ask him/her about charge and discharge rates and he/she will answer "Eneloop or not, choose 0.5C charge rate and 0.25C discharge rate; since Eneloop 2000mAh are the most common rechargeables nowadays the C9000 is already pre-programmed that way. i.e. 1.0A charge rate (yes, this high!) and -0.5A discharge rate", see also the official C9000 FAQ's on the Maha website.

+ the 1000mA/-500mA is a common accepted and agreed upon "standard" on cpf. if you believe in the power and wisdom of cpf, then you need to believe this outcome/result/finding: 1000mA/-500mA --- simply adopt it, and forget about your doubt, worries or questions

+ there is no proof or long-term study which proves that deviation from this 0.5C/-0.25C rule for Eneloops results in better quality Eneloops (i.e. less aged cells). in fact, Eneloops are only a few years old, and even early adopters of Eneloops report that after years of use and abuse their Eneloops (which they had never taken special care of) are still like new. pretty much unaged. this holds true especially after mfm's mentioned forming charge with a proper machine (e.g. the C9000).

In summary, Eneloops are simply awesome. Charge or recharge them anytime, dont care about topping off or the current charge status, and they will last you for several years to come. No special care needed. You can even discharge them to full depletion (that's what i do in my hundreds of runtime tests. you know my BLF reviews!), no problem whatsoever. With other NiMH cells that would be a problem, with Eneloops it isnt anymore. Eneloops are really really special in every respect. And cost only 1.70€ per cell!

Okay, cpf also recommends that you get a C9000 and play with the cells (e.g. doing the Break-In every 6 months or so, and analyzing the cell's effective capacity once per month or so -- to be certain that they really havent aged haha) but Eneloops can live with Sanyo/panasonic chargers equally well .. because they are no-brainers.

Hope this helps. You got a nice charger!! Smile

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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The more I read oon Eneloops, the more convinced I am that they only have one problem. They are so durable, that no one yet knows for sure how long they will actually last in common use / keeping on shelf Big Smile
kreisler
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CheapThrills, you dont have Eneloops yet?

 

1.70€ apiece!!

Silly

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
CheapThrills
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kreisler wrote:

CheapThrills, you dont have Eneloops yet?

 

1.70€ apiece!!

Silly

 

I have enough of them, just a no-brainer and they are now even cheaply available on-line in Finland!

how2
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kreisler wrote:

CheapThrills, you dont have Eneloops yet?

 

1.70€ apiece!!

Silly

I got my ones for £1.12 each

So me charging them at 1680mA, would have no problems? That's the max charge rate for one battery.

 

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how2 wrote:
So me charging them at 1680mA, would have no problems? That's the max charge rate for one battery.
I've been charging mine at 1.5A all the time and I never had any problems - I guess extra 180mA won't make them suffer either Smile

Only thing that seriously hurts eneloops are those pesky 15 min chargers.

how2
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Thanks Shadowww

kreisler
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how2 wrote:
So me charging them at 1680mA, would have no problems? That's the max charge rate for one battery.

Eneloop AA are specified for Fast-Charge at 2000mA (see its specs PDF), in 1.1hrs, which means that Sanyo/Panasonic lets you charge them with up to 2.0A.

cpf and Maha corp (and kreisler) recommend 1000mA; the cell will stay cool for the entire session.

check with 1680mA. if the cell gets warm, then it's not bad .. but heat itself does degrade a cell's quality (aging, capacity, LSD). Normal NiMH's would degrade by 2.0A and its produced heat (no doubt!), Eneloops not (robust!).

Just check the temperature and report back, thanks!! ( oh man, sometimes i can be real smarta$$ haha )

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
kreisler
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Question:

 

Which is the best (or most recommendable) of the Sanyo NiMH chargers (and why)?

 

Friends ask me about good chargers but dont want to pay the BC-700 or C9000 price, tss.

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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From what I've read, none of them is really good because they dont follow the NiMH charging algorithm like BC700 and similar do.. therefore I'd buy the MQR06 because its the fastest. Wink

Oh, and for that price, you can get a BC700. Oopsie. Silly

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NightCrawl wrote:
therefore I'd buy the MQR06 because its the fastest. ;)

you are right thanks NightCrawl!!

the very best charger from the Sanyo NiMH charger series is the MQR06. It has 4(four) LED's!!!

costs 17.99$ shipped, please buy and use coupon code kreis*rap on your preferred shoping site Big Smile

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190655219243

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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I thought the "the more LEDs, the better" was only valid for flashlights, but if you want to use that rule for a charger, I'm fine with that.. Silly

BC700 is 23€ shipped from Germany.. Wink

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NightCrawl wrote:
BC700 is 23€ shipped from Germany.. Wink

i am wondering if the MQR06 (~18$) is a better purchase than the i4 V2 (19.xx$). the BC700 is out of line! Silly

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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None of them chargers NiMH correctly, so if he might switch to LiIon, give him the i4.

But keep in mind that these Sanyo chargers are only good for Eneloops.

kreisler
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NightCrawl wrote:
these Sanyo chargers are only good for Eneloops.

okay, will keep that in mind thx Smile

i will suggest both chargers because they are priced similarly. If one uses exclusively Eneloops, then the MQR06 would be better imho. Because it charges faster!!

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh
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Would GP PowerBank Audio be OK for Eneloops

 

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NightCrawl wrote:

From what I’ve read, none of them is really good because they dont follow the NiMH charging algorithm like BC700 and similar do.. therefore I’d buy the MQR06 because its the fastest. Wink

Oh, and for that price, you can get a BC700. Oopsie. Silly


Actually the MQR06 follows correct charging algorithm for NiMH, with delta-V termination.
It also charges cells individually, and not in pairs. And here in Europe, MQR06 + four Eneloop XX bundle costs much less than the BC-700. Silly
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Cheap quality is good - Expensive crap isn´t

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Shadowww wrote:
NightCrawl wrote:

From what I've read, none of them is really good because they dont follow the NiMH charging algorithm like BC700 and similar do.. therefore I'd buy the MQR06 because its the fastest. Wink

Oh, and for that price, you can get a BC700. Oopsie. Silly

Actually the MQR06 follows correct charging algorithm for NiMH, with delta-V termination. It also charges cells individually, and not in pairs. And here in Europe, MQR06 + four Eneloop XX bundle costs much less than the BC-700. :P

Then it maybe was one of the smaller.. but here in Germany, the price for MQR06 + four Eneloops is the same as the price of a BC700. But the BC700 is much more useful. Silly

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NightCrawl wrote:
Then it maybe was one of the smaller.. but here in Germany, the price for MQR06 + four Eneloops is the same as the price of a BC700. But the BC700 is much more useful. :P

within NightCrawl's country:

MQR06 + 0 Eneloop: 17.99US$ shipped (=14.19€)

MQR06 + 4xAA Eneloop: 22.50€ shipped

BC700 + 0 Eneloop: 22.95€ shipped

 

BC700 loses here. I win Silly

*FMI* i got 4 i/o sh

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