Efficiency Copper Lumintop Tool, Worm, Maratac, ReyLight

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jon_slider
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Efficiency Copper Lumintop Tool, Worm, Maratac, ReyLight

Until now I thought it was the low conductivity of the TiTool that was inefficient, some people suspected the electronic switch. It turns out its the driver. The inefficient driver is also in the ReyLight Copper Tool, the regular Copper Tool, and my copper Maratac. Only one of my ReyLights has the efficient driver, and my Worm has the Efficient driver.
The bottom axis is in Minutes.

Tested Medium, the Worm is regulated and lasts past the 4 hour mark when I ended the test because the ReyLight turned off by then. The bottom axis is in hours.

I have data from 3 other people as well
running score
Lights with Efficient driver
1 Copper Tool w Nichia (maukka)
1 Reylight Driver from gunga (from the Copper Reylight Run) (jon_slider)
4 Worms (3 copper w Nichia (1 ronniepudding, 1 UPZ, 1 jon_slider), 1 Stainless w XP-G2 (ronniepudding))

Lights with INefficient driver
1 Copper Tool w Nichia (UPZ)
2 Copper Rey Light w Nichia (ronniepudding and me)
1 Copper Maratac (me)
1 TiTool Reylight version w Electronic switch (maukka)
1 Brass Tool w Electronic switch (UPZ)

so far, all lights with Electronic switch have the Inefficient driver, and all Copper and Stainless Worms have the Efficient driver.
Copper Tools (combined ReyLight and MLH versions) are split, 3 inefficient (jon, UPZ, and ronniepudding), 2 efficient (maukka and jon)

Note all lights tested use the NoPWM driver that came out about Oct 2015. I have not tested any of the earlier models with the PWM driver.

Edited by: jon_slider on 02/10/2017 - 12:24
sp5it
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It would be great to see those drivers element side.
Mike

 

djozz
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Interesting, thanks for testing, I would have to test my copper Reylight Tool, and the four bare drivers I bought from Rey (of which one is owned by Gunga, is that the one tested?).

Were the tests performed with Eneloops?

jon_slider
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I was hoping there would be a way to tell without disassembly.

So far only the Worm has consistently tested to have the efficient driver.

Gunga thinks the inductor changed:

gunga wrote:
… the ReyLight driver. I’ve used and sold many. I did notice a change in inductor size. It’s possible that the earlier run had a bigger and more efficient inductor. …

… the inductor changed on some or all. I currently don’t want to dismantle everything to check .

Boro
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Good info, great post, thank you.

jon_slider
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djozz wrote:
Gunga, is that the one tested?…
Were the tests performed with Eneloops?

I used fully charged Eneloops, but I did not use the exact same battery in each light, and I only ran one test per light. So I hope you will share your own tests.

the Inefficient Copper ReyLight on the far left I bought from the Group buy. The Efficient ReyLight driver on far right came from gunga. The two ReyLight drivers “look” the same to me, same traces, same buttons:

The Worm driver looks like the ReyLight drivers, but with a larger button. The Maratac driver looks different from the ReyLights and Worm driver.

The test on the left is my inefficient Reylight against my efficient Worm. The test on the right is my efficient gunga ReyLight Driver, against my inefficient stock Maratac Driver

The high mode can be tested in 30 minutes. By then the efficient driver will still be running regulated, just ~3 lumens below its starting brightness. The inefficient driver will be running at less than Half its initial brightness.
===

The Medium mode test takes 4 hours. By then my inefficient Maratac driver had turned off the light completely. By contrast my efficient ReyLight driver from gunga, was still running regulated, less than 2 lumens below its initial brightness.

mattlward
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I will add the data for 2 Ti’s and one copper today as well. The Ti’s have the ReyLight driver and the copper has the Maratac driver. I will also test a pair of AAA Maratacs with XP-G3 3 and 4 bin emitters and the Lumintop copper tool has an XP-G3 5 bin.

EDC rotation:
Convoy S2+, 6*7135, XM-L2 3D, 10 degree TIR, PilotDog lighted tailcap.
Convoy S2+, H17F, XM-L2 4C, lighted tailcap
Zebralight SC52w-L2
Olight S1A
Olight S1R

jon_slider
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mattlward wrote:
I will add the data for 2 Ti’s and one copper today as well. The Ti’s have the ReyLight driver and the copper has the Maratac driver. I will also test a pair of AAA Maratacs with XP-G3 3 and 4 bin emitters and the Lumintop copper tool has an XP-G3 5 bin.

thanks. I will be curious to learn if your TiTools do what maukka reported in his thread
maukka wrote:
On mid the difference is gone. Without a cooling fan the Ti overheats and starts flashing the output at 12 minutes.

My test did not confirm maukkas comment that “on mid the difference is gone”. I found the Worm is significantly more efficient on Medium, than the Maratac.

if you need a Worm for an example of the Effient driver, “the Brass Worm is on sale
Discount codes and link deleted, Ive been informed Im not supposed to share.. sorry.. contact Freeme and M4D M4X and Pablo and Banggood

I might buy another Worm just to move the driver into one of my Maratacs or Reylights.
this assumes Copper, Brass, and Stainless Worms got the Efficient driver (Im not talking about the 4th gen that have pocket clips)
So far only 4 worms have been tested, all are Efficient.

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Thanks for the info Jon, I will test my brass worm later if I don’t forget.
Just an FYI that code works for all the worms and other Lumtop-direct products. Great if you have prime, I think it’s one time use though.
Also a great deal is Prince Mini $31.92

djozz
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My copper Reylight Tool (Nichia 219b version) high on an Eneloop (maybe a graph later):

min lumen
0___78
1___78
4___78
8___79
12__75
16__74
20__68
24__62
28__48
29__35
30__19
32__6

jon_slider
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djozz wrote:
My copper Reylight Tool (Nichia 219b version) high on an Eneloop (maybe a graph later):

thanks! Another unregulated High mode, same as the TiTool and Brass Tool. The “inefficient” driver


the graph shows no regulation and a 30 minute runtime. This is the “inefficient” driver, although it meets the current 30 minute spec. I believe it is also inefficient on medium.

By inefficient on medium, I mean it meets the new spec of 4 hour runtime, not the old spec of 10 hour runtime. The medium IS regulated, for the first 3 hours, but then drops off rapidly in my test

mattlward
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LumintopSheet

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic, in order of testing.
Lumintop

Looks like I had the luck of the bad draw one mine! I have an extra driver for one of the Ti’s from Rey, I will have to test it out after I find it. I wonder if Rey will fix this issue and sell us new drivers?

I do not have a light meter, so I could not measure output. But, I can say that the 3 tools do not appear to be regulated and the Maratac did, it held good output through most of the test.

EDC rotation:
Convoy S2+, 6*7135, XM-L2 3D, 10 degree TIR, PilotDog lighted tailcap.
Convoy S2+, H17F, XM-L2 4C, lighted tailcap
Zebralight SC52w-L2
Olight S1A
Olight S1R

jon_slider
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mattlward wrote:
…I wonder if Rey will fix this issue and sell us new drivers? … I can say that the 3 tools do not appear to be regulated and the Maratac did, it held good output through most of the test.

thanks for your efforts and shared info
3 more Reylight TiTools w electronic switch in the “inefficient” group

your maratac Im guessing is a 2 mode w PWM, a Rev 2 model? the runtime is over 1 hour, congrats

to clarify about this “defect”
It is technically not a defect, Lumintop changed the specs to 30 min on high, and that is what the new driver does. by “new driver” I mean in the ReyLight Copper and Titanium, and Brass Tool, all with NoPWM. For the Maratacs, Im also only reporting the 30 minute runtime on high, on the late Rev3 model w NoPWM. The CuTool w NoPWM is also starting to look like it has the shorter unregulated runtime. With the exception of maukkas early 2016 Massdrop sourced Copper Tool, which he says is NoPWM also.
this is his TiTool and his CuTool (non reylight version)

what is unique about maukkas Copper Tool is that it runs regulated on High for over 40 minutes, like all the Worms, and one of my Reylight drivers.

I have a Copper Tool coming in the mail. Will report.

PineChaos wrote:
I will test my brass worm later

Im close to pulling the trigger on a Brass Worm, I would really appreciate confirmation that it runs regulated for 40 minutes on high, instead of dimming steadily such that after 35 minutes it is at half brightness or less, like the ReyLights. A photo showing the inside of the head would also interest me.

mattlward
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My Maratac is the copper twisty with 3 modes, PWM and should be Rev. 3 since it has the GITD ring in the bezel end. The 3 that had bad runtime were 2 titaniums and a copper Lumintop Tool.

EDC rotation:
Convoy S2+, 6*7135, XM-L2 3D, 10 degree TIR, PilotDog lighted tailcap.
Convoy S2+, H17F, XM-L2 4C, lighted tailcap
Zebralight SC52w-L2
Olight S1A
Olight S1R

PineChaos
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jon_slider wrote:

Im close to pulling the trigger on a Brass Worm, I would really appreciate confirmation that it runs regulated for 40 minutes on high, instead of dimming steadily such that after 35 minutes it is at half brightness or less, like the ReyLights. A photo showing the inside of the head would also interest me.


Testing now. I don’t have a light meter but I will let it run on high for 35+ minutes and see if there’s any significant output drop.
jon_slider
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mattlward wrote:
My Maratac is the copper twisty with 3 modes, PWM and should be Rev. 3 since it has the GITD ring in the bezel end. The 3 that had bad runtime were 2 titaniums and a copper Lumintop Tool.

thank you matt, that makes sense. I bought a Rev 3 in April of 2015 and it did have the GITD ring and PWM also. I hag gunga put i a Reylight driver, from the copper reylight group buy at end of 2015.

thanks also for clarifying your had 2 electronic switch and one mechanical switch, tools

that confirms that so far all the electronic switches have the 30 minute spec driver, that is unregulated on high mode.

The Maratac in my test is also a Rev 3 w GITD ring, but it is from Oct 2015, and is NoPWM. The Tools I bought after that are also NoPWM

it would seem that the PWM Maratac you have runs considerably longer than the NoPWM one I have. However, before jumping to conclude that the NoPWM drivers are ALL 30 minute spec.. I highlight again the Worms, which have all tested regulated for over 40 minutes.. and NoPWM

much appreciate your time developing and sharing data

the quest for me is to learn how to recognize the drivers w NoPWM that run regulated for more than 40 minutes, as in the worm. At least Two Tools got the regulated driver, my reylight driver from gunga and maukkas CuTool.. seems the only visual difference in those is at the inductor level.. im hoping gunga may revisit the topic sometime when hes got a mod in hand

PineChaos wrote:
Testing now. I don’t have a light meter but I will let it run on high for 35+ minutes and see if there’s any significant output drop.

thank you for taking the time, in the interest of science Smile

PineChaos
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Ok, tested with a standard 750mah Eneloop.
Here are some shots at 0 min, 30 min, and 35 min respectively

At about 36 minutes it started to dim but was still running well into 40 minutes.
I’d say pretty confidently that this is the efficient driver.

jon_slider
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PineChaos wrote:
I’d say pretty confidently that this is the efficient driver.

thank you,
from your photos, I agree you seem to have the driver with the regulated high, it does not look 50% dim at the 30 minute mark.

now Im tempted to get a Brass Worm as a driver donor for a Copper Tool..:-)

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It can be done. :).

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Also tested a Lumintop Copper Worm (219B) which was bought from BG a couple of months ago. Mine has the efficient driver. The button on the driver board is smaller than on my efficient Copper Tool, similar traces though.

From the left: Cu Tool, Cu Worm, Ti Tool. No PWM on any of them.

Runtimes with a fan

jon_slider
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Thank you Maukka!
your CuTool has the very large button, like my Worm
your Worm has the regulated driver, on high, that also runs for over 40 minutes before dropping out of regulation, while your TiTool is below 50% brightness by 35 minutes

on high:
I think that makes 6 worms, all regulated
1 CuTool Regulated (maukkas, with large button)
1 CuReyLight driver, Regulated (mine)
All other Tools tested, be they ReyLight or not, Ti, Copper, or Brass, use the unregulated driver

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Included here is also the runtime for Manker E21 on high with one Eneloop Pro. The better Lumintops are indeed very efficient.

Muto
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Thorfire PF03 still is hard to beat for run time on a AAA flashlight, 60 min on high with NiMh as measured in this review;
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/47022
Just slightly lower output than the Tools.

Really tempted to get that Brass Worm at the great sale price, have the nickle one with cree and like it but the nichia would a nice addition.
Later,
Keith

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“All men are equal when their memory fades. *******************But it’s is Like it is*************
“Stay Calm, don’t be alarmed. It’s just another Holiday, Back at the Funny Farm” ………………………………….

jon_slider
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So, based on what has been posted so far, I think these are accurate Q&A
I invite confirmation and further education

What is the most efficient Copper single AAA light available with 90 CRI (N219) and NoPWM?
Answer: Worm

What is the most efficient Copper single AAA light available with 70 CRI (XP-G2) and YesPWM
Answer: Maratac Rev 3 prior to Oct 2015

Will a Copper Worm head w Nichia Lego onto a Copper Maratac body?
Answer: Yes

Will a Copper Maratac head w XP-G2 Lego onto a Copper Worm body?
Answer: No The threads on the worm body are too short to reach the pill in the Maratac head

Can the Nichia Pill from a Copper Worm be unscrewed and swapped with a Copper Maratac or Copper Tool (including ReyLight) from Oct 2015 or later and vice versa?
Answer: Probably YES, but not yet confirmed.

Can the Nichia Pill from a Copper Worm be unscrewed and swapped with a Copper Maratac or Copper Tool from BEFORE Oct 2015 or later and vice versa?
Answer: Probably NO. iirc the YesPWM Copper Maratacs, and Copper Tools, used a 2 layer board, the post Oct 2015 NoPWM Lumintops use a single layer board.

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Getting confused.

Would any of this have anything to do with reported differences some people have using 10440 batteries?

jon_slider
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Etex wrote:
anything to do with reported differences some people have using 10440 batteries?

no, but, dont worry about it
enjoy your lights!:-)
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Another two data points for this test. I have a copper and aluminum version of the Tool and the copper has the efficient driver but the aluminum does not from what I can tell. These are the run times on medium and high with a 750mAh Eneloop (from Costco) to when there is no more light coming from the LED:
Tool Cu – 4hr4min – 59min
Tool – 3hr40min – 46min

Right now I have them in low and the aluminum one expired between 23-26 hrs but the copper is still running (27+). Here is the driver on each, notice the small gold pad at about 10 o’clock on the copper version

!{width:30%} photo IMG_1847.jpg!

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My tool ti driver board:

 

jon_slider
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mrmatt wrote:
Another two data points for this test. I have a copper and aluminum version of the Tool and the copper has the efficient driver but the aluminum does not from what I can tell.

thanks for the data and pics

fwiw, the efficient driver runs flat regulation on high, you might want to invest in an inexpensive light meter so you can determine if the lights have flat regulation

though I agree the runtime on your copper sounds like the more efficient circuit based only on runtime on high
otoh, your copper also has more runtime on medium, which suggests a battery difference, not a circuit difference.. fwiw, the inefficient drivers are not different on medium, only on high, and spec for medium is now 4 hours,

tangent about Medium and runtime, spec used to be 10 hours.. nobody has posted one of those, I suspect it was from the version with PWM, before Oct 2015, but have none of my own to check.. can you confirm both your Tools are the NoPWM versions?

sp5it wrote:
My tool ti driver board:

thanks for the pic, looks different than some, maybe similar to the one matt posted with the gold leaf at 10 oclock

if you want to contribute a test, do this
1. Turn the light on, on High and start a stopwatch. Let us know if it lasts 30 or 60 minutes
2. It really helps to have a lightmeter, then you can answer the question about the runtime curve, and whether it is flat regulated, or constantly falling brightness. You only need to check brightness at the beginnig and at the 35 minute mark.
The efficient driver will still be at the same brightness, while the inefficient driver will be at less than 50% of its initial brightness.

This is maukkas excellent example of the two different runtime curves on High

maukka wrote:

note, the TiTool can overheat on high, see maukkas in depth review

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Mine is with 219C, 50% drop after 35min Sad
Mike

 

jon_slider
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these 5 lights are the efficient ones that turned up through this thread

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